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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 18, 2015 10:18 AM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 10:20, 18 Oct 2015.
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PandaTar said:
... .
the fact that no one here seems to understand here is that when someone doesn't bash the game, he/she is immediately an ubisoft fan, or is completely content with the game. I'm having problems too with the game and I too report bugs.
also when i asked a question about how someone can be here, i was actually asking a damn question. I wasn't demanding you explain yourself to me. You don't have to be aggressive. Some of your reasoning made sense and thank you for replying. nevertheless i don't agree with the continuous bashing as an approach towards fixing this game, and it is not in that bad shape as some make it out to be.
yeah sure, by retaliating, we show these companies that we won't take another unfinished product again. but the world is vast, and for every person retaliating there are at least 1000 who buy the game blindly (not this game  ).
it's nice and noble trying though.
if there was a slight chance of changing smth in the game industry by bashing/criticizing relentlessly i'd join this club, but i don't want to spend my time being like that when i want to play a game, so i'll follow the less loud approach of not buying a game like that, and be content with nintedo for a while.
needless to say that for this game, i did make an exception.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted October 18, 2015 10:34 AM |
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Edited by PandaTar at 11:07, 18 Oct 2015.
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ChrisD1 said:
it's nice and noble trying though.
if there was a slight chance of changing smth in the game industry by bashing/criticizing relentlessly i'd join this club, but i don't want to spend my time being like that when i want to play a game, so i'll follow the less loud approach of not buying a game like that, and be content with nintedo for a while.
You don't want to, but others want to. Really, since H4 they are making the same mistake over and over again, releasing unfinished things. I doubt that the approach of waiting quietly to see if they mature will be of any use, if any at all. As it begins to get easier to report your feedback upon things you like, it will also get for things you don't like. Why for all good things relentless compliments would be taken as a good step, while relentless complaints wouldn't work? Why after 3-4 installments she same mistakes are done again and again? This is not a matter of changing the gaming industry overnight, but for the future, prune the wrongdoings of this day for the next, and this is one of the tools we have now. My country is having a very bad problem with bad governing, and it only reflects the lack of action people had when it was still time, voting and believing on behalf of liars. This is the same for gaming companies. If not fierce actions are taken, they'll simply move on thinking and forcing themselves to understand everything is just fine because no one is complaining. If you give up, they'll think exactly this: they'll get tired of complaining sooner or later. Let them do it. No one will remember later. You must push beyond the boundaries of your own time and think further of your own lifespan. We gave enough good tips and feedback in our time and that wasn't heeded. Now, they are reaping what they sowed. If they relentlessly fail, they'll be relentlessly bashed. It's not for lack of positive feedback either.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted October 18, 2015 10:54 AM |
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I've got an idea!
Why don't we ask Limbic to release the tools used to extract Heroes VI models?
At this point, Black hole is bankrupt, HVI is played by almost no one and was a flop.
At least allow us to re-use the assets ourselves, at least as a way to apologize to the not satisfied customers.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted October 18, 2015 11:16 AM |
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A resumed step-by-step in a Heroes game production could be like this:
1. Play all Heroes games thoroughly, including users' maps, RMG maps, all campaigns, test all heroes, different strategies for the same map, all difficulties.
2. Playing other TBS games and understanding what fans like on these, and considering these points means to help improving their product; it is also valid. It's not like some of ideas used in these games are patent-pending. Testing what could work and help and improve gameplay, without cluttering it with things if it's possible achieving the same results with less elements.
3. Identify key-features from each installment and understand how they work.
4. Based on the findings from #3, check around for feedback provided by all sources and learn how to improve and polish those key-features and understand why they would be better for each installment in particular.
5. Round all these key-features already improved and improve them even more based on new possible applicable mechanisms.
6. Add new key-features.
7. Make those new key-features work with the other.
8. Identify ways to improve old key-features even more in face of the new key-features.
9. Prune what may come to be not necessary to keep the gaming experience outstanding.
10. Provide possibility to toggle the game mechanics for different expertise - for beginners and for hardcore players - not only based on difficulty level. Possibly consider mechanics being tweaked at some extend to give more depth or a cleaner experience.
11. Execute the project.
12. Test it.
13. Correct as many issues as possible.
14. Test again.
15. Correct remaining issues.
16. Test again. Concludes that this version had no critical issues and provides an optimized version for public.
17. Release.
18. Maintain.
19. Gather feedback and improve.
So, where did they fail and where did they get it right? What can they do now? I think they got 11, 12, 17 and struggling with 18 only. May be wrong.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted October 18, 2015 11:21 AM |
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PandaTar said:
I think they got 11, 12, 17 and struggling with 18 only. May be wrong.
I think that you are 100% right, unfortunately.
@Neraus
That would be cool, but it is unrealistic, given that they are reusing those models. They will probably use them for expansions (if here are any).
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2015 12:32 PM |
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I think they got most of your points Panda. Shadow council, polls, JVc chat, Axeoth writer chat, Romero contract.
This is why I don't take people seriously anymore. It's yes so easy to just write whatever bs comes across your mind without even thinking and then people like me read it and go..."well but that's exactly what they done!". To tell the truth, point 0 should have been:
0. Don't listen to old so tru crazy loyal fans . In big bold letters. Should not be hard since its like 5 people. I bet then the game would be much better.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted October 18, 2015 12:39 PM |
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If it's like 5 people, they shouldn't listen to indeed. But it's not like did either. If they didn't, why was not the game any better then?
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2015 12:43 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
Apart from all that, has anyone played academy might hero? I found myself completely disregarding warcries. Metamagic helped me way more. Is if just me?
Yes, I find might academy heroes to be quite potent spell casters. I think skilling into war cries for them is almost a waste, unless you have a tendency of finishing battles quickly. That makes sense, it's Academy afterall 
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2015 12:50 PM |
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Edited by Hermes at 12:51, 18 Oct 2015.
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PandaTar said:
If it's like 5 people, they shouldn't listen to indeed. But it's not like did either. If they didn't, why was not the game any better then?
No, but that exactly what they did.
See, they could:
1. Axe free Axeoth campaigns
2. Not redesign vampire and lich(most steam players wouldn't know any better)
3. Not do any town screen, since many steam players don't care about them at all
4. Forget about Romero and just do some random edgy music most younger players would like
5. Not to SC or any votes, once again most steam players would not know any better
6. Not change half of the H6 features - 3 resources, free skilling - no skill wheel and no random skills, no modding, no RMG, no sim turns, etc.
7. Not employ people to answer (sometimes stupid) questions here and just release the game and forget.
8. Not do any interviews with JVC etc.
Save all the cash from above $$$
And :
8. Lower price
9. Animate cutscenes
10. Add boobs/FPS mode and hats, yea, steam loves hats.
Profit. Seriously the game would be 10/10 now.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted October 18, 2015 12:56 PM |
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Hermes said:
4. Forget about Romero and just do some random edgy music most younger players would like
You are aware that King & Romero duo did abbout 1/3 of the Heroes VII themes?
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted October 18, 2015 01:00 PM |
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Edited by PandaTar at 13:01, 18 Oct 2015.
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Again it falls to what most steam players are, which are whom? You are plainly there offering selling a game for new customers only. A sad path for an old franchise.
Not to mention 10/10 by your own standards.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 18, 2015 01:03 PM |
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Correct me, if I'm wrong, but isn't the problem that they TRIED to make a good game, learning from the past and so on - but simply couldn't create a game that has the magic?
If you could just follow a list, point for point, resulting in a big hit, we'd have a lot more great games, but that's just not the case.
You need a certain amount of creative vision to make a good game - it's not just programming work and following a step-by-step manual.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted October 18, 2015 01:07 PM |
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Yes, that's what I tried to explain with #6 and #7. Add your magic to it, soul, identity. It's not a recipe for all games neither, it's something for an old franchise-like game. It's impossible using this for a completely new game, obviously.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
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posted October 18, 2015 01:13 PM |
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Hermes said:
PandaTar said:
If it's like 5 people, they shouldn't listen to indeed. But it's not like did either. If they didn't, why was not the game any better then?
No, but that exactly what they did.
See, they could:
1. Axe free Axeoth campaigns
2. Not redesign vampire and lich(most steam players wouldn't know any better)
3. Not do any town screen, since many steam players don't care about them at all
4. Forget about Romero and just do some random edgy music most younger players would like
5. Not to SC or any votes, once again most steam players would not know any better
6. Not change half of the H6 features - 3 resources, free skilling - no skill wheel and no random skills, no modding, no RMG, no sim turns, etc.
7. Not employ people to answer (sometimes stupid) questions here and just release the game and forget.
8. Not do any interviews with JVC etc.
Save all the cash from above $$$
And :
8. Lower price
9. Animate cutscenes
10. Add boobs/FPS mode and hats, yea, steam loves hats.
Profit. Seriously the game would be 10/10 now.
If only 5 people achieved that much i'd say kudos to them! Good thing we have them and not only people that Like unfinished quick-cash-grab games like you seem to do.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 18, 2015 01:56 PM |
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Hermes said:
8. Not do any interviews with JVC etc.
I could comment other points but I will only this one: you mean they set up JVC to advertise mmh7.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 18, 2015 02:03 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 14:28, 18 Oct 2015.
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Hermes said:
[...]
Is that the guide to creating an even worse heroes? Because it is lacking enough as it is.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted October 18, 2015 02:23 PM |
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Hermes said:
PandaTar said:
If it's like 5 people, they shouldn't listen to indeed. But it's not like did either. If they didn't, why was not the game any better then?
No, but that exactly what they did.
See, they could: ...
And how do you explain Heroes V being a success (well, after TotE)? Hmm?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 18, 2015 03:15 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 18:00, 18 Oct 2015.
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JollyJoker said:
Correct me, if I'm wrong, but isn't the problem that they TRIED to make a good game, learning from the past and so on - but simply couldn't create a game that has the magic?
If you could just follow a list, point for point, resulting in a big hit, we'd have a lot more great games, but that's just not the case.
You need a certain amount of creative vision to make a good game - it's not just programming work and following a step-by-step manual.
You'll have a hard time defining what the magic is and then trying to get a consensus. However, I do understand what you're saying. The game doesn't have an appeal of its own. It is like you said, a Frankenstein monster, stitched together from the reused assets of H6 and the "best ofs" of the Heroes games before. A severe flaw in the approach of designing a game, if you ask me, and even more so when you have the community enforcing it. For now, people can blame that the patches which the H7 monster is composed of are not the right ones, and in doing so they miss the bigger picture - that even if they were the right ones, you'd still have a Frankenstein monster.
That's one issue. The other is indeed that the game lacks vision, and I'm sure more people would agree here. I have heard some more presumably knowledgeable people trying to excuse Erwan under the pretense that this is not mainly his fault, implying he's just a contributor, but frankly I'm not convinced. To me the responsibility for the failures of H6 and H7 lies primarily on his shoulders. When the head figure of the M&M brand starts talking to you about StarCraft and WarCraft as part of his rationale for Heroes, then you know something is very much amiss. That's why I think the message from us as a community should be loud and clear, that this direction is alienating the Heroes feel and harming the franchise, and that if people in positions of authority or at least their mindsets don't change, then the game would be better off dead than tarnished and turned into an abomination.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted October 18, 2015 04:29 PM |
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PandaTar said:
And that's a sad thing in itself, given that you are content with something that broken and have fun with it. Lucky one, aren't you? Luckily for us, other companies are not yet so crappy as to set up their customers in that level of low quality to release all their games in such chaotic level, fully disrespecting them while they lick their shoes for no apparent reason, given they are not bankrupting or anything to explain such rush-rush of production. Guess people get what they deserve.
I'll play something else, whole and fun.
First, no. I dont see how hugely broken is H7. Memory leaking aside, most of the stuff is minor and at least in my experiences, i only had 2 crashes.
Second, no, not really. All companies want to get their games asap out there. Delay's cost money and if it gets delayed its because its truly unplayable. It's nasty but semidecent videogames are take millions to make. The last videogames i have played are Mortal Kombat X, Batman Arkham Knight, CivBE: Rising Tide, Castlevania: Lords of Shadows 2 and the Sims 4. Ironically, Heroes is the one with the least snowty release (technically-wise). Of course, calling the devs out in their bs for that and demanding it to be fixed its what should be done, but your issues with the game clearly extend beyond the technical stuff, which leads to
Third, different people like different stuff, if you dont find Heroes franchise fun anymore, do what you say and play something else, ciao amore.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted October 18, 2015 04:48 PM |
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GenyaArikado said:
First, no. I dont see how hugely broken is H7. Memory leaking aside, most of the stuff is minor and at least in my experiences, i only had 2 crashes.
Again, how lucky one. Can't be that much thick to ignore the rest and find it's not broken yet.
Quote:
Second, no, not really. All companies want to get their games asap out there. Delay's cost money and if it gets delayed its because its truly unplayable. It's nasty but semidecent videogames are take millions to make. The last videogames i have played are Mortal Kombat X, Batman Arkham Knight, CivBE: Rising Tide, Castlevania: Lords of Shadows 2 and the Sims 4. Ironically, Heroes is the one with the least snowty release (technically-wise). Of course, calling the devs out in their bs for that and demanding it to be fixed its what should be done, but your issues with the game clearly extend beyond the technical stuff, which leads to
Depends on your choices, of course. Games I bought had fair treatment, and they range even from Ubisoft itself to indi games. Even had 2 pre-ordered which didn't disappointed, such as AoW3. So, for me, your reasoning doesn't match. Different people, different experience, I guess.
Quote:
Third, different people like different stuff, if you dont find Heroes franchise fun anymore, do what you say and play something else,
And that's what's being done, as I said.
Quote:
Ciao amore.
I don't like you. Reserve such treatment for those who do.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
