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Hotarubi
Known Hero
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posted December 05, 2015 12:11 AM |
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Dear Gomaki,
So I'm playing through Necro Map 5 now and as soon as it starts, what do I find? Zenda is under the skill/spells bug.
I just read the update tidbits on the main mmh7 site, and it says even if the patch goes live, any existing saves with the bug are forever screwed.
This is very disheartening. When I finished Map 2, Zenda still had all her skills and spells. So, somehow between maps 3 and 4, the bug triggered.
If the bug department (or whatever it is called) has isolated the problem, is there any way for them to announce what the problem could be at this time???... just so it would help me figure out whether to restart map 3 or 4 and y'know... AVOID doing whatever triggers the bug?
Or is this bug more complex than what I'm assuming it to be?
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted December 05, 2015 10:31 AM |
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I am ok with regeneration. If you are to lose 5 pixies in a particular combat you can lose only 3 with regeneration. For just 5 mana it is good in early game saving u a few core units here and there. You are bound to lose some core units , don't make a fuss out of it.You have 3 heroes fully loaded with creatures. If they decrease starting armies that may matter but now regrneration is super fine.
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted December 05, 2015 08:57 PM |
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I don't really have a problem with regeneration either. It's been useful for me when paired with stone skin. The only thing that kinda bothers me about it is:
1. The area of effect size. I think it should be a 2X2 default spell. And when upgraded, it should effect all creatures.
2. The two earth magic factions have a unit with regeneration as an ability. The dragon is optional (but I never get the ranged treant  ) but the wyvern isn't. Just seems kinda dumb that I'm going to level up this spell and one of my units already has it active all the time. Also sylvans support warfare unit gives regeneration. Regeneration overkill.
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MoritzBradtke
Known Hero
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posted December 05, 2015 09:17 PM |
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what? did u even play the game? How regen is supposed to prevent a pixie from dieing if all regen can do is to heal 1-10 hp at best of its life? While it should heal around 30+ u call that super fine really? U are bound to loose some units? That is your explanation for spells being almost useless? Most People agree on regen being bad anyway! And amount of starter creatures is another topic, on heroic i think they are fine and u said u gonna loose some anway so why would u worry?
f.e firebolt will almost kill like several units in 1 turn regen will usually heal half hp og a core in a turn that are 5hp so 1/2 unit against 10 with firebolt, do u really need more examples? And for 3 turns of regen that are 1 1/2 units awesome! And again spell being cheap is not helpful with the limit of 1 action the turn and the limited amount of spell also ubi community manager answered on my post on official forums that they want to change it on a future patch so hopefully it will happen and for green dragon i think the spell should also be more useful without stoneskin like any other spells dont u too?
natalka said:
I am ok with regeneration. If you are to lose 5 pixies in a particular combat you can lose only 3 with regeneration. For just 5 mana it is good in early game saving u a few core units here and there. You are bound to lose some core units , don't make a fuss out of it.You have 3 heroes fully loaded with creatures. If they decrease starting armies that may matter but now regrneration is super fine.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted December 06, 2015 10:25 AM |
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Edited by natalka at 13:06, 06 Dec 2015.
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Look if u can't play with current regeneration me and The_Green_Drag can. Saving u 2 pixies in a battle is more than killing 0-4 with a fire bolt. You are comparing apples to oranges.
Quote:
have u even played the game?
Ye I have played on a map where first battle is against 100 cores. If I evaluate that regeneration is ok on such high amount enemy hp/damage than I think is perfectly fine.
Regeneration is cheap and can be used by might heroes too.
Cast regeneration on tank units who have 20+ hp
if we are talking about useless spells from the beginning let's turn our heads to Weakness. It is super crappy versus cores. Dungeon, Necropolis have hard time because of it.
Sylvan, Stronghold are so good in creeping I don't see problem losing a few units here and there.
Quote:
on heroic ...so why would u worry?
Losing less troops is top priority.
This iteration doesn't allow complete preservation of creatures . Even with heal on heroic you just minimize losses not completely nullify them. Heal, regeneration savings of creatures may be similar in early game considering mana cost.
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MoritzBradtke
Known Hero
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posted December 06, 2015 01:50 PM |
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Seriously, firebolt i a lot more useful than regen like already said also it scales and kills more with more magic and talent regen does so barely because of its hp caps, instead of casting regecore save u 2 pixies what is really a joke u could just use the hero attack and kill 2 enemies so they will do less damage so u also have less looses making regen even cheaper because u dont have to cast it!
I actually like the the buff/debuff skills and also consider em a lot more useful than regen even if the enemy only has like 5 attack that is still a chunk less of damage if u cast it on bigger core stacks especially when u can aoe it while aoe regen is still dull often only 1 or 2 stacks will get damage anyway
I dont mind if some people can play with regen i can also but i write this because i want balance! Also i know u, ll loose some cores anyway but ways to prevent that with defensive spells it should at last be as useful than offensive ones for the same level/tier
Btw heal isnt the best spell either it has 4x the costs of regen and doesnt heal that much either but it is decent when u can aoe it because it will rezz several units and i really dont care its 20 mana costs thats what willpower is for and mana regen talents ive posted a suggestion for regen on official ubi forums if anyone is intrested
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted December 06, 2015 02:42 PM |
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Balance isn't just about making everything the same. They did that with the creatures and skill wheel already. 
Fire spells seem a little better when looking at the spells indivually but earth spells have better synergy as you level them up.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 06, 2015 07:13 PM |
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I'm not the best player to listen considering I don't even play h7 anymore, but I don't think Regeneration should resurrect or it would need to be made similar to h5(so percentage based). I really hated the 0 loss creeping from h6 which was just really easy on all factions. It should regardless be higher level spell because it's minimal effect for low tier units(and light already has heal spell at same level). Overall I feel regeneration should heal more than heal, but simply do it over longer period of time.
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MoritzBradtke
Known Hero
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posted December 06, 2015 07:24 PM |
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TD said:
I'm not the best player to listen considering I don't even play h7 anymore, but I don't think Regeneration should resurrect or it would need to be made similar to h5(so percentage based). I really hated the 0 loss creeping from h6 which was just really easy on all factions. It should regardless be higher level spell because it's minimal effect for low tier units(and light already has heal spell at same level). Overall I feel regeneration should heal more than heal, but simply do it over longer period of time.
sure thats one solution make it higher tier and give us something else for tier 1 so earth magic hereos dont have to sit on weak regen spell at the start of the map
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MoritzBradtke
Known Hero
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posted December 06, 2015 11:57 PM |
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TD said:
I'm not the best player to listen considering I don't even play h7 anymore, but I don't think Regeneration should resurrect or it would need to be made similar to h5(so percentage based). I really hated the 0 loss creeping from h6 which was just really easy on all factions. It should regardless be higher level spell because it's minimal effect for low tier units(and light already has heal spell at same level). Overall I feel regeneration should heal more than heal, but simply do it over longer period of time.
sure thats one solution make it higher tier and give us something else for tier 1 so earth magic hereos dont have to sit on weak regen spell at the start of the map
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 07, 2015 12:47 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 07:20, 07 Dec 2015.
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Switching with poison spray would be fair.
Similarly, I'd like heal to switch places with celestial armour. In terms of mechanics effectiveness, first comes damage prevention and THEN resurrection. Heal was not meant to resurrect initially and it shows. Why have a spell with pitiful resurrection at tier 1 to compete with those insane mass spells? I've seen stoneskin give +17 defense with a might hero that didn't even have earth while I've seen a powerful wizard get +55 attack from inner fire!
Imo the problem is twofold: Rebalance stat-boosting spells and move resurrection spells(heal/regen) a level higher were their rez does not have to be pitiful. Squeezing a mage guild 2 in week 1 sounds a good deal. You'd have to sacrifice something in exchange for a potential resurrection source.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted December 07, 2015 07:40 AM |
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I agree with Elvin partly. I don`t agree with the part nerfing stone skin/ inner fire. They are perfectly fine as is.
Mage guild for tier 2 spells week 1. This is strange phenomena now.
When testing my map I found this to be very different from previous heroes. You can build tier 2 guild only at level 9 and your hero can only learn spells if he has 2 arcane knowledge. This means even if your town allows building the guild on day 1, heroes who have novice in a particular school can`t still learn tier 2 spells because of the stupid system for AK...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 07, 2015 08:17 AM |
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Well, I found the H5 righteous might too much and it was +12 attack. But that +12 meant +60% damage if the opponent's defense was equal or below your attack. Granted there were more gameplay factors in play and back then mass spells affected all units but I cannot accept that a tier 1 spell can achieve such ridiculous boost.
Imo tier 1 spells effects should be around 20-25% on average with spellpower further boosting them. From there on it's up to math but I would like each tier to be more or less coherent when it comes to effectiveness. I don't want tier 1 spells being better than tier 2 or 3 for instance.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted December 07, 2015 10:55 AM |
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if they nerf stone skin creeping will suffer a lot. Right now secondary hero even at first level and with 1-2 artifacts for magic power can cast a great stone skin. It may be a bit too much but I like it more than heroes 5 variant. For example now a mage can really protect troops with stone skin.
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gomaki
Shaper of Lore
Community Manager, Limbic Ent.
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posted December 07, 2015 12:54 PM |
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MoritzBradtke said:
gomaki said:
A little 1.6 update for you all https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/patch-1-6-announcement
Plus i'm back in office now! Feel free to spam me with PMs and on here about what you want changing (Inb4 entire game) I am always present here even if not posting. But I have to get my post count up anyway to get a fancy title so i'll be about more.
Ok, first of all, i'm very excited for 1.6 and i love what u guys are doing, here are some points i'm Aware and feel free to comment on that (:
1. redesign of regeneration spell in Tier 1 earth Magic (the spell is not useful atm when u start the map because it cant rez and core Units have too low hp to make it worth it so one useless spell for a while, u know spells have are very limited amount in the game, so it's a big Problem)it gets better with elite Units but the spell should also be useful at the start for the first few levels this is bad design to me
2. better balancing for hero specs., leads me to some hero specs, also the new hereos, f.e gem in sylvaan, she is a Regeneration expert but with Regeneration being so weak at the start, this is a very bad spec atm
also others like alesia with her vestal abilty are very weak, she doesnt even have warefare skill( a warfare spec on a hero without warfare skill?) nor has the spec any Level scaling to make it useful f.e when lv 10 she can rez dead Units like the GM in warfare wheel could, beside that some specs are quite good like +6 Magic for light Magic or +4 defense or attack or free talents and spells
3.some questions: will AI still be worked on a lot? this is interesting because it could still use some improvement and are there chances we'll get a multiplayer with sim turns so we dont have to watch the Opponent fighting?
any chances on a tutorial for modders how to Import stuff from H6 to the actual game? f.e changing to the old model of Seraphs for some hereos like orna and murazil because they are female not male
Okie dokie lets see what I can tackle here.
Regeneration is one of our first balance changes and you will see what it does in 1.6. VIPs are aware of the changes and it seems to be an accepted change so we've got the ball rolling there.
Hero specs are a mid/long term plan. When/if we introduce new heroes we will make them unique in some way (I will personally keep a vested interest to make this happen) So we're more than aware that people want this and will make sure to it happens.
AI is ALWAYS being worked on. It doesn't get a 'highlight' so much but we have people dedicated to this. The main goal is to make sure we don't have a 'cheating' AI which many games do (we don't) that's why things take longer. It's all about tightening up the choices it can make and optimizing them. As for the MP Unfortunately that will never be the case for the core Heroes 7. It's an Engine constrain and if you thought Out of syncs were bad now it would be HORRENDOUS having someone do combat whilst another person moves around. So all we did was have the toggle option to not be able to see your opponents army (I personally would like to be allowed to at least look around the Adventure map even if i can't move but i don't believe this will happen)
Hotarubi said:
Dear Gomaki,
So I'm playing through Necro Map 5 now and as soon as it starts, what do I find? Zenda is under the skill/spells bug.
I just read the update tidbits on the main mmh7 site, and it says even if the patch goes live, any existing saves with the bug are forever screwed.
This is very disheartening. When I finished Map 2, Zenda still had all her skills and spells. So, somehow between maps 3 and 4, the bug triggered.
If the bug department (or whatever it is called) has isolated the problem, is there any way for them to announce what the problem could be at this time???... just so it would help me figure out whether to restart map 3 or 4 and y'know... AVOID doing whatever triggers the bug?
Or is this bug more complex than what I'm assuming it to be?[/q
Hi Hotarubi.
So this skill/spells bug has been a nightmare. We wanted to hotfix it but technical and time constrains meant at a certain point it wasn't a viable/optimal option to do. However it's 'fixed' now in 1.6 which is coming very soon! Basically in 1.5 we changed the load/save process so things loaded at the end of the turn instead of the start (or the other way round the technical aspect isn't my strong point) and basically what was happening is that spells and skills in SOME cases would load before the hero (this is all happening incredibly quickly) this would cause the missing stuff. A fail-safe has been put in now so that can never happen. However the strange thing is that no one could produce EXACT reproduction steps on how this happened. It was incredibly random. So the bug is/was caused with in the save/load but why or how it's triggered is unknown for certain (we have some idea but again reproducing it 100% has not happened)
I answered in a thread on steam but essentially this is how it is from 1.6 on wards. If a save is working fine and has the skills as normal, it will continue to do so post 1.6, no problems there. If it's 'corrupted' for want of a better word. It will continue to be corrupted post 1.6. So for your specific case if Necro 5 is broken the most realistic and best advice I can give you is simply restart the map. You then wont experience that bug anymore.
Hope that helps a gives a little more insight you can always PM me here or Email me directly if you have or get further problems.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 07, 2015 12:55 PM |
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The stat boost/debuff spells are too strong IMO. I would prefer spells like these to be percentage based so they don't give 100000 times boost to core and 2x boost to champions, same as I hate defend giving was it +10(?) def to everybody(big for core, next to nothing for champion). With percentage based spells might gets better stat, but smaller multiplier if he has spell(lacking spell-power) while magic has smaller stat and better multiplier thus both can still get use of the spell. It just felt to me that might hero is way behind with his boosts in general. I never saw any reason to play might heroes over magic ones in h7, I felt what might can do magic will always do better(and no, I didn't like might being dominant in long games with past games either).
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 07, 2015 01:05 PM |
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gomaki said:
AI is ALWAYS being worked on. It doesn't get a 'highlight' so much but we have people dedicated to this. The main goal is to make sure we don't have a 'cheating' AI which many games do (we don't) that's why things take longer. It's all about tightening up the choices it can make and optimizing them.
I may be alone in my opinion, but why can't you leave few options to allow AI to cheat? Give them so players can truly challenge themselves by beating enemy which gets some double build rights per turn or triple troop growths, free resources and so on. Of course none of that matters if you can't make proper AI who can plan their moves(as whole preferably). I have hard time understanding what AI thinks it will benefit by running up and down in moat at siege for example killing huge number of their troops(even if you say AI can only play that single units turn as optimal it makes no sense). Or when AI is deadly to me and it still runs away(granted it still gives no real losses to player once you attack it with the bad AI)...
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted December 07, 2015 01:16 PM |
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Quote:
As for the MP Unfortunately that will never be the case for the core Heroes 7. It's an Engine constrain and if you thought Out of syncs were bad now it would be HORRENDOUS having someone do combat whilst another person moves around. So all we did was have the toggle option to not be able to see your opponents army (I personally would like to be allowed to at least look around the Adventure map even if i can't move but i don't believe this will happen)
Is this the end for multiplayer? 
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted December 07, 2015 01:45 PM |
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There can't be an end without a beginning 
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted December 07, 2015 01:52 PM |
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ye there was no beginning but that is the final nail in the coffin. I can`t believe they will never fix it. We are so sad here
bought a bar chocolate.
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