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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted September 07, 2016 12:15 AM |
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Edited by cleglaw at 00:23, 07 Sep 2016.
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this is what i came across during my town screen material research yesterday...
isnt it.. the 3d haven town we seen long ago? 
or maybe i am working too much?
btw, i think first image can be worked on to replace current haven ts, it has a big potential. maybe we will use this in future?
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 07, 2016 08:57 AM |
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cleglaw said:
btw, i think first image can be worked on to replace current haven ts, it has a big potential. maybe we will use this in future?
Are you making a whole new game through mods basically? 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 07, 2016 11:35 AM |
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Isn't the top picture the Red Keep in King's Landing, from Game of Thrones?
In any case, both are medieval towns ... would have loved the top one in style and perspective for the Heroes games, though.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 07, 2016 11:52 AM |
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Sorry I see there is a bit of a change of subject but couldn't reply earlier and I need it off my chest.
Truth of the matter is Ubisoft thinks they are doing a Fantasy RPG game with some strategy elements while Heroes of Might and Magic was notorious and cherished for being a Sword and Sorcery strategy game with some role-playing elements.
It is so obvious, the choice of 3d perspective, the focus on the campaigns, the awful multi-player support because who cares, they are really trying too hard into making this game what it isn't (and not even hard enough to deliver it in decent state). Aside Heroes 4, which was hated by most, the other NWC games don't have the whole game focused on the campaigns, but on the content itself and replayability factor (you won't do campaigns 3000 times over, while hotseats and single maps, yes and more). The campaigns in this type of game are a bonus for the one who is interested by the lore, the "one more turn" expression applies to the sleepless nights either spent by hotseats with couple of friends or alone in XL scenarios and skip school tomorrow. I can really see with the few people defending h7: they like the lore, they play mostly for the campaigns, they want full 3d, retarded AI does not seem to disturb. Really no offense, but am I wrong?
People are talking a lot on subjective preferences too, another clear indicator from drastic changes of directions and how dramatic the consequences now are ; I think we should be fighting about much more trivial things than this, like we should be arguing about which town is the strongest, which spell useless, which one is godly, creeping advantages and disadvantages of factions etc, but we are debating about crucial and critical aspects of the game that are discussed at the very core, aspects that are preventing some (most) of us to enjoy the game, the two sides if you will are too extremely opposite, as the recent products appeal to other people than what they used to, and alas, at the detriment of the latter. Alas also for the sales, as we are still more numerous longing for the glorious days after more than a decade.
Yes, subjectively, when I read people defending h7, I see most like what others don't as the priorities and expectations from the game aren't the same. Yes somehow, for the people like me who are deeply disappointed with h7, it is comforting to see the game flopped, as it is clearly not the game we are expecting and want (us, the other side, the disgusted majority), so in a way, I only see it as justice and right, that the game got awful reception, I believe it to be proportionate to its quality: terribly lacking.
A few objective facts though are:
- H6 and H7 got awful reception and are hated by most.
- Ashan is very different than the original universe.
- The successful games of the franchise are heavily focused on the strategy aspect while the ones failing are focused on the campaigns or streamlined most of the games mechanics.
And this is not taste, sorry. This is just how it is. And when a majority is displeased with the product, it can't mean anything else than the direction is not the right one, can it? Oh wait, I already hear Ubisoft representatives saying "what majority hahaha the game is doing great even if you don't like it", yeah right, with a 4.8 user score on Metacritic and close to no reviews for TbF (with STILL mixed score) on Steam we can see that...
It is therefore only natural that the people who are appealed by what HoMM wasn't have different taste than the long established fanbase, and care for different things.
I will never understand this will to appeal to, roughly anyone but the actual fans. From a business standpoint it makes literally no sense, "my customers enjoy red cars so I'm going to give them green trucks!" God, why??
Now as a result we have in the same fandom both people enjoying red cars and green trucks, hating the other one with a vengeance respectively (I mean car people hate trucks and vice-versa).
There's at this point close to nothing we can do, if Ubi keeps on doing the series it will be for a very narrowed part of fans, we could see how some Limbic dev himself labelled dissatisfied fans as "haters" and "circlejerk" recently on this board.
If the series end after h7, it might, very sadly be for the best, maybe yet another reboot can be done in the future, and work better than the Ubilogy.
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Petiknight
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 07, 2016 12:01 PM |
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Galaad said:
Sorry I see there is a bit of a change of subject but couldn't reply earlier and I need it off my chest.
.......
If the series end after h7, it might, very sadly be for the best, maybe yet another reboot can be done in the future, and work better than the Ubilogy.
Well said 
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted September 07, 2016 01:03 PM |
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Edited by Antalyan at 13:04, 07 Sep 2016.
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"retarded AI does not seem to disturb"
It does. AI complaints are everywhere but it does at least some interesting things now and the combat AI is many times less predictable than H6 one (which was not good, either).
"we could see how some Limbic dev himself labelled dissatisfied fans as "haters" and "circlejerk" recently on this board."
I think you went too far (as usually on this site), he mentioned he did it for himself and not as a dev.
I also doubt anything regarding sales and overal success would change with different game mechanics. Just my personal guess, sure.
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 07, 2016 01:27 PM |
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Galaad said:
I can really see with the few people defending h7: they like the lore, they play mostly for the campaigns, they want full 3d, retarded AI does not seem to disturb.
Actually, I play strictly single player (have only played one or two games with my sister and her boyfriend over the network, but then coop, not against eachother) and I mostly play them for the campaigns. I guess for the most part because it appeals to the completionist in me; when I play a map, I don't play it to finish it in the shortest time possible, but I tend to visit every stat booster, flag every mine and creature dwellings, etc ... before I finish a map and move on to the next. Not doing so for me feels like I missed out part of the potential a map has to offer, as if I disregarded something that the map maker intended for me to use and which potentially can help me in the next map (that one extra spell on my Hero, that 1 extra point of ATK or POW, etc ...).
It's the progression into the next map, carrying over everything that you assembled in the previous map (spells, stats, maybe artifacts - mostly SoD, with the combination artifacts) for use in the new map. With single maps, that end game is quite different as there's no reason to keep playing other than to give the enemy players the finishing blow. The game ends then and there, no progression is saved and carried over to a next scenario.
As a difference between random maps and campaigns, campaigns usually also tell a story, whether it's about a pirate daughter rising to power in the shadow of her father's legacy, or a Dragon hunter working his way up to slay the mightiest of them all, a Barbarian Warlord using brute force to claim the Barbarian throne or the search for a very special Artifact by an ambitious Overlord ... it's fun to see those stories unfold, as you progress through the maps, getting tidbits of information and story every now and then either through triggered events or timed events.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 07, 2016 02:12 PM |
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You obviously didn't like or play H1 or H2 then.
Before H4 HoMM was definitely NOT the "campaign game", because the game was geared to be played ON ONE MAP, if not on S or M, but for on L and for sure on XL.
Or, other words, everything the game has to offer can be experienced ON ONE MAP.
Consequently, campaigns in H2 may have told a story over a couple of maps - but you would start each map with a different hero (and at level 1 or sometimes 3 again).
And if you look at how the game works - it makes a lot more sense to play THE SAME map with a different hero and a different faction right from the start (and tell the same story again, except with other characters) than to let heroes develop over a succession of maps - either all the maps have to be quite small, which means you could have fitted the story onto one really big map as well, OR you have the awful level-cap - OR you must have different game rules for playing campaigns, something that was tried vaguely and sparsely, but not really effectively.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 07, 2016 02:16 PM |
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Antalyan said:
It does. AI complaints are everywhere
Ok, my bad.
Antalyan said:
I think you went too far (as usually on this site), he mentioned he did it for himself and not as a dev.
But that is even worse? I can't get why you support developers showing obvious contempt for their fans ("you don't like it? You're not my audience anyway!", am I exaggerating? I think not, go read back the thread).
Maurice said:
I guess for the most part because it appeals to the completionist in me
I fully get you, but once you own the campaigns in every possible way there is not much left to do, what I mean with the random maps for instance is that is the perfect casual play, an hour in a train or so, whether campaigns or custom scenarios demand more investment, that is the short term.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 07, 2016 02:30 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 14:32, 07 Sep 2016.
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JollyJoker said:
You obviously didn't like or play H1 or H2 then.
If I would have to rank the game in preference, my list is H3, H5, H2, H1, H7, H6, H4. Though I have to admit, the middle section is a bit foggy and could go in any order.
I've played a few story maps that were pretty good and kept me hooked but other than that I hardly play single maps.
Galaad said:
what I mean with the random maps for instance is that is the perfect casual play, an hour in a train or so, whether campaigns or custom scenarios demand more investment, that is the short term.
That's true; I like to pour a great deal of time into a game and then once I am done, move on to the next one. I'm not the type of guy who can casually play a game as a time diversion (during a train ride or something) other than the newspaper Sudoku or something like that . I have Angry Birds on my cellphone but haven't touched those games in a year or two and games like CandyCrush are absent .
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted September 07, 2016 02:44 PM |
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Completely agree with Galaad, good post
The one that really kills the strategy for me is how much impact the heroes have. H1-3 Heroes were as Stevie put "army boosters" and nothing more. The skills you choose shouldn't have a huge impact on the battle. in h7 you can give all your creatures 15% total hp just for reaching level 4.
You used to find neutral creature dwellings all over the place with an array of different power levels. That part of the game hardly exists anymore.
It's turned into an RPG with a pinch of strategy
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 07, 2016 03:20 PM |
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Maurice said:
JollyJoker said:
You obviously didn't like or play H1 or H2 then.
If I would have to rank the game in preference, my list is H3, H5, H2, H1, H7, H6, H4. Though I have to admit, the middle section is a bit foggy and could go in any order.
I've played a few story maps that were pretty good and kept me hooked but other than that I hardly play single maps.
In that case - shouldn't you play Disciples, especially D2 Gold, more than every HoMM game?
I'd also think that Etherlords 1 and 2 should really be a blast for you (both D and EL I've been playing for the campaigns more or less).
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Articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted September 07, 2016 03:36 PM |
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If anyone cares, Fortress page is up in the mmh7 blog
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted September 07, 2016 03:46 PM |
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Wasn't that added like a week ago?
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Articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted September 07, 2016 03:48 PM |
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Ig it was, i just saw it today, and i kind of have it bookmarked to open with my browser, so the jokes on me
Though, not all things are up yet (units page still show error), so maybe they are uploading it now??
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted September 07, 2016 03:51 PM |
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Antalyan said:
I think you went too far (as usually on this site), he mentioned he did it for himself and not as a dev.
it makes no difference to be frank mate, I know you are a pretty young guy, but when you reach the 9 to 5 world in basic professional etiquette an employee's conduct is always representative while on contract whether out-of-office or not, you can't behave schizophrenically, after all if I wrote on a public forum that all of my colleagues and customers are ******* idiots I would be taken seriously and fired by my boss lol
Ubilimb Oak will not be fired by his boss of course, because Ubilimb actually endorse what he said and have no regard for professional etiquette themselves,
like Limbic Dan he is a very young person and I don't personally hold it against him for childishly lashing out, he has after all been thrust into a role he's nowhere near ready for in a high pressure echo chamber surrounded by terrible role models who should know far better, thus has no business literacy and hasn't been trained to express himself properly lol
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 07, 2016 03:59 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
In that case - shouldn't you play Disciples, especially D2 Gold, more than every HoMM game?
I'd also think that Etherlords 1 and 2 should really be a blast for you (both D and EL I've been playing for the campaigns more or less).
For some reason those games skipped my door . But I guess I should take them as recommendations; will check to see what's available on Steam once I get home.
It's not uncommon for games to pass me by, though, as I don't keep active tabs on what's being developed. As it is, I only "stumbled" upon Age of Wonders 3 at the release of its second expansion .
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 07, 2016 04:07 PM |
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Steam doesn't offer Disciples 2 Gold; GoG offers it for a tenner (they had it at an 80% discount a short while ago).
Both Etherlords games cost a fiver at Steam.
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted September 07, 2016 05:07 PM |
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Galaad said:
Antalyan said:
I think you went too far (as usually on this site), he mentioned he did it for himself and not as a dev.
But that is even worse? I can't get why you support developers showing obvious contempt for their fans ("you don't like it? You're not my audience anyway!", am I exaggerating? I think not, go read back the thread)
I understood that Oak's post as an exaggeration, I think Oak was just kidding so I can't understand why everyone's hyperbolizing it so much. Some of the comments they/he/Limbic receive are definitely not nice and (I am only guessing again) they are not allowed to answer them. So what else would you answer? You can either ignore it or write something ridiculous.
Sure my main reason to support H7 devs is I want to get as much good as possible from that game but even if I did not, I wouldn't care about some unoffical comments which are obviously not mentioned seriously.
Articun said:
Ig it was, i just saw it today, and i kind of have it bookmarked to open with my browser, so the jokes on me
Though, not all things are up yet (units page still show error), so maybe they are uploading it now??
They have been "updating" it since last thursday? friday?
____________
Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 07, 2016 06:22 PM |
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Antalyan, the "we won't give you what you want" attitude is no news, you were there by the time Shadow Council was open for comments right? May I need to make you read this again.
I know you personally agree with the MMH7 Team but for a game supposedly made "for the fans and with them", you literally and officially have a team telling you to **** off. So what is the deal here? Have a look at what majority of Councilors stood up for, the most upvoted comment of the article, by TD here:
Quote:
I would like to thank Galaad, Chiasa, slumb, Mirash, Cleglaw, violetcoffee, blueraven, Robv, Raenus and the rest for all our conversations and debates on this site. Unfortunately it has come clear to me that this game does not represent what heroes should be like or about to me personally. I see this game as partly upgraded MMH6 with great deal of the same problems. This game does not take after HoMM 3 or HoMM 5 in my opinion. It is more like hybrid between MMH6 and HoMM4 as I see it.
To devs: I looked forward to see how this series evolves, but after the devolution started by MMH6 I can't believe you would take after it and continue on the same path. Strategy games should be about using your head. Unfortunately you seem to continue on the path that started with MMH6 to casualize/simplify the game hoping to attract bigger masses. I expect variety and diversity from the game this is where you have failed miserably with creature abilities and the "skillwheel".
I know this isn't the game for me and that doesn't seem to be changing so no point in bothering other people by arguing here. With that I will be taking my leave from this site as to not bother those who are still looking forward to this game. I wish you best of luck with production and development of the game!
Then we are being told "61 upvotes represent nothing and is voice of few hardcore conservatives". No it doesn't mean nothing, it represents the amount of active fans involved in a process they were said to be part of. Most of the hatred came out from this I think, there an abyss between what is publicly said to the press and what really happened.
MMH7 Team said:
We have a feeling that some people truly believe that more complexity and constraints in a system makes it better, however, we don’t share this belief.
Referring to TotE skill system, everyone LOVED this system, but "we don't believe blablabla", result: they had to readapt much later on the skill system to give it some randomness but with their philosophy and ours being too distant it resulted on something still inferior to a system from 10 years ago.
Sure it wasn't perfect and had its shortcomings, but instead of just fixing it they went with stuff literally nobody asked for, then they say "HV is flawed", such arrogance! I wouldn't even mind the arrogance if there was genius behind, but this is definitely not the case, I find h7 boring, like many other people. And this is only one aspect, you know there is more.
So I don't know from where you get the idea Limbic listens to its fans, because they have made it abundantly clear already in the past that they are doing how they see fit, throwing out some VIPs from their private forum, dismissing a full year of fans feedback during Shadow Council, and even if it's just for fun, openly write on HC they "don't care about us" (that was the exact quotation, my bad for earlier), and the end product looking very different from what was supposed to be a fruitful collaboration turned into a very toxic war, which is to be expected when game developers decide to NOT give the fans of the franchise what they expect from this once legendary series.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
