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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted March 26, 2017 07:04 PM |
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Gryphs said:
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
"I think H7 is a good game."
"No it's not."
"Why?"
"Ubisoft, bugs, bad a.i., horrible game play."
"I still like it anyway."
"Okay."
____________
Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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LucPatenaude
Famous Hero
Owning all 7 Heroes games
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posted March 27, 2017 07:44 PM |
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Feeling depressed over the continuous rants?
@Antalyan: I really do feel the frustration, bro! Seriously, man, I really do.
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted March 31, 2017 01:07 AM |
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Sorry I'm a little late with my reply. I've been a while without a computer, and I hate writing on mobile.
Let me start by saying I don't condone the practice of using "that's just your opinion" to dismiss any argument. It is in my opinion an easy way out when you don't have any good arguments yourself. But I still get an itch in my left eye when the term "objectively" is used about matters that are subjective in nature. Perhaps I'm nit-picking, but so be it
Galaad said:
Brukernavn said:
I would have to disagree, since the use of "bad" in this context is a value judgement (not in the moral sense) it is subjective in nature.
Basically you are saying HOMM-III is not objectively the better game out of 7 because of collective subjectivity. So it's the most popular one but is not intrinsically objective, fine. I could make a Heroes of Cars and Racing it wouldn't objectively be bad either then.
I can't agree with that.
No, I'm saying "H7 is bad" is a value statement. Since we are talking about a game for sale it is an economic value statement (as opposed to a moral one). I assume that all people today hold to the subjective theory of value in economics, which I alluded to in my previous post. It is only in the context of judging the game as a whole, which is based on personal preference, that I object to the use of "objective". Even if every person that ever lived thought "H7 is bad", it would still not make it objectively so.
I have no objections when used regarding concrete observations as quoted below.
Galaad said:
I'm sorry but a game which is considered to be a catastrophe by a huge majority of the fandom and worst rated of the franchise can be considered as a failure, objectively. Really it's not that hard to get.
Yes, H7 can objectively be said to have the worst reputation/reception in the series and considered a financial failure compared to previous games.
Galaad said:
Objectively the game mechanics are deeper in most of the previous titles and I am not going to explain why as it has already been done in this thread and subforum generally to the point of vomit, if you don't want to listen noone will explain for the nth time.
Again, I agree.
But keep in mind that deeper does not imply whether this is more or less preferable, that comes down to preference.
Galaad said:
The artstyle is not consistent with the NWC era and that is also an objective observation.
Also here I completely agree.
But this objective observation does not determine if this is good or bad. If you don't like the NWC art, this is actually a good thing. Objectively is properly used about the observation, because that can be measured or assessed objectively, but it cannot be used about the personal preference regarding that observation.
Galaad said:
The AI, as pointed many times is also not up to the level of the one from h5 or even from h3, which is also an objective observation.
Totally agree.
Galaad said:
The fact someone may like the **** mechanics and art better does not refute this.
You are right, it does in no way refute what you've said above. It is simply a separate matter all together. Observations can be objective, but preferences cannot.
imid said:
I completely agree, I'm a physicist and that's how "objectively" should be used.
As a physicist you should also know that you cannot logically derive what ought to be from what is. Meaning, even with objective facts it is impossible to conclude an objective judgement or preference.
@Stevie
Sorry for splitting your reply into fragments, I just found it easier to answer that way.
Stevie said:
Then I would have to disagree in turn. First off, you're assigning value based on circumstance and necessity, and even then it's still a matter of objectivity. When you compare two cars to find out the better one, you do so with regards to their specs.
Your standard might be specs, but you can't ascribe that to all people. I know many women who care nothing about specs, but compare cars based on color and looks alone.
Stevie said:
A guy with a wife and 5 kids would objectively find a family van more useful than a Ferrari, because in the scope of transporting his family a more spacious car is a necessary priority.
For something to be objective, it cannot be subject to personal preference or situations in life. This can therefore by definition not be objective. He could have prioritized the Ferrari over his family and made them take the bus, it depends on his priorities.
Stevie said:
But even that guy would agree that the Ferrari is still the overall more valuable car because, outside of his own context, it objectively has the better mechanical specs and branding.
This goes back to the subjective theory of value. You can argue that the car objectively has better specs, but by definition it is not objectively more valuable. Value depends on the person and situation, and can hence never be objective.
Stevie said:
However, the entire analogy to Heroes is inaccurate as far as context and necessity go, since you don't compare games for what utility you derive, but for what enjoyment, and that's entirely something else (you cannot quantify it). Also, if someone hates a Ferrari for a subjective reason, that only means that the argument he makes is subjective, not that the inquiry for a better car is innately hinging on subjectivity. Big difference.
I think I agree, if I understood you correctly. To state subjective value in terms of money; facts about the car can be objectively stated, but what you're willing to pay for it (value) is subjective.
Stevie said:
The second analogy about water and gold is at the level of apples and oranges, or should I say apples and uranium. First of all, you are comparing two things that have nothing in common, while between the games of the same Heroes series there's ample room for comparison.
Yeah, it wasn't really meant as an analogy, but as a common example of subjective value theory.
Stevie said:
Second of all, the value of those things depends on context, more exactly on how scarce water would be in a desert (supply and demand).
Yes, and even more important than supply and demand is personal need or want. That is the main driver for value.
Stevie said:
If you had no circumstances of the sort, gold would objectively be more valuable than water.
Ahh, you were doing so well =) If it was objectively more valuable, it would be so independent of personal circumstances.
Stevie said:
It doesn't even matter if it's an issue of convention, we are not being as reducible as to say that a check of a billion dollars is just a piece of paper. Things have value because they are valuable to us. And again, context between being in a desert and playing a video game is incomparable (if you can afford to play a game with the specs of Heroes 7, then I imagine you have a decent quality of life).
Bingo for the bold part. And yes, it was not meant as an analogy, but merely an example of value being subjective. If we would use price as a measure of value for H7; remember that there are people willing to pay over $50 for the game, but wouldn't play H3 even if they got paid for it. While the opposite might be true for you. It might not be a desert that causes you to have different preferences/needs/desires, but nevertheless your different preferences cause you to value the game differently. Thus one cannot state the game's value objectively.
Stevie said:
So if we return for just a second to Heroes 7, we can objectively establish that it has memory leaks, bad code, crashes a lot, disconnected art style, badly implemented features, bugs, artificial ineptitude, and those amount to the poor reviews, sales and what other numbers out there,
Completely agree.
Stevie said:
and as far as I can see these are clear indicators that Heroes 7 is a complete failure on its own and worse than other Heroes games by comparison.
I would agree personally, but you still can't say it is objectively "worse" than any other heroes game, because then you move from observations to passing judgement. The assessment is no longer separated from personal preference or desire.
Sorry for the wall of text and quotes 
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2017 01:33 AM |
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So after watching some playthroughs, it looks like Heroes VII is leagues above VI and somewhat close to V in terms of quality, albeit buggy.
Anybody willing to give any opinions, regardless of whether it's been said or not?
____________
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 31, 2017 05:36 AM |
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Sligneris said:
So after watching some playthroughs, it looks like Heroes VII is leagues above VI and somewhat close to V in terms of quality, albeit buggy.
Well.. Not really.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2017 06:54 AM |
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Antalyan said:
Some things are really easy to change, like the abilities assigned to units, you can do it in several seconds or minutes if you are successful in launching the editor.
Great game, lol. "You can fix the game. If you are lucky enough to run editor successfully."
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2017 11:34 AM |
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Elvin said:
Sligneris said:
So after watching some playthroughs, it looks like Heroes VII is leagues above VI and somewhat close to V in terms of quality, albeit buggy.
Well.. Not really.
Could you elaborate?
____________
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 31, 2017 11:45 AM |
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LizardWarrior said:
If you people don't stop resurrecting this sh1tty thread, I swear that the next pages up to 2000 will be choked full of outdated erwin memes.
____________
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 31, 2017 02:11 PM |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 31, 2017 03:51 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 15:57, 31 Mar 2017.
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Sligneris said:
Elvin said:
Sligneris said:
So after watching some playthroughs, it looks like Heroes VII is leagues above VI and somewhat close to V in terms of quality, albeit buggy.
Well.. Not really.
Could you elaborate?
We all have, a few dozen times at least. My short version is that H7 is too simplistic and misguided to even come close to H5 and while its features are more true to the heroes tradition than H6, it *somehow* manages to be less fun. Its combat is boring for one.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted March 31, 2017 05:05 PM |
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Brukernavn said:
...
I would assign you a QP for your last post full of quotes ... if our roles were reversed 
Macron1 said:
Antalyan said:
Some things are really easy to change, like the abilities assigned to units, you can do it in several seconds or minutes if you are successful in launching the editor.
Great game, lol. "You can fix the game. If you are lucky enough to run editor successfully."
It depends on your HW actually. Many people complain just because the are playing on the machines which are many years old.
Sligneris said:
So after watching some playthroughs, it looks like Heroes VII is leagues above VI and somewhat close to V in terms of quality, albeit buggy.
Anybody willing to give any opinions, regardless of whether it's been said or not?
After hundreds of hours spent in all three of them (H5, H6 and H7), usually in singleplayer, I agree with your impression.
____________
Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 31, 2017 05:11 PM |
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Antalyan said:
It depends on your HW actually. Many people complain just because the are playing on the machines which are many years old.
Sadly the same can be said for many people who are playing on new machines.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted March 31, 2017 05:51 PM |
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Elvin said:
Antalyan said:
It depends on your HW actually. Many people complain just because the are playing on the machines which are many years old.
Sadly the same can be said for many people who are playing on new machines.
At least they HAVE new machines... 
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted March 31, 2017 06:14 PM |
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You still got time to repent until page 1600, otherwise we gonna meme where no man has meme'd before.
____________
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lordgraa
Promising
Famous Hero
The Whisperer
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posted March 31, 2017 06:55 PM |
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2017 07:01 PM |
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Antalyan said:
It depends on your HW actually. Many people complain just because the are playing on the machines which are many years old.
Lol, really?
There are a hell lot of bugs, and support is already finished, so no one will ever fix them for sure.
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted March 31, 2017 08:03 PM |
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Macron1 said:
Antalyan said:
It depends on your HW actually. Many people complain just because the are playing on the machines which are many years old.
Lol, really?
There are a hell lot of bugs, and support is already finished, so no one will ever fix them for sure.
That was related to running the editor
____________
Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2017 08:42 PM |
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Antalyan said:
That was related to running the editor
You suggest to play editor not game? 
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted April 01, 2017 04:25 AM |
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And then it all gets creepier still. Editing maps for a game no one will/can play.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted April 01, 2017 04:30 PM |
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
