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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted June 29, 2018 11:58 PM |
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For a possible Heroes 8
I hope for Heroes 4 skill like skill system and also Heroes on the battlefield but this time with balance!
It would a be a refreshed  fresh approach but i hope they will have 2D or 2,5 D isometric map and 3D battle and towns.
With a really great map editor! At least 7 factions in base game with new factions in it.
We will see!
There is some hint now new jobs new studios open for a possible H8 i think still!
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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted June 30, 2018 12:06 AM |
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May be after a russian, a hungarian and a german team, there will be a chinese team? Because this market is huge also for M&M games and Heroes also. There is a big fan base there also ! (Russia Poland Germany Hungary are the others)
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 30, 2018 12:57 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 01:03, 30 Jun 2018.
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Quote:
So basically screw H3 and H5, let's go the H4 way? I mean that's your own subjective opinion but numbers and popularity say otherwise.
H4 is solely unpopular because of new world storyline, bland graphics, less creatures and towns and lack of upgrades.
Not because of the introduction of battlefield heroes.
In fact Wog is a very popular (the most popular and stablished way before purist HotA was even a thing) H3 modification and adds a battlefield hero just like H4, they even use the H4 icons for its skills.
***
My approach for a new Heroes game would be heroes that can either enter the battle or not. If you want to make them enter the battle they dismount and inter the hexagon arena. This lets them fight (including using Wizard spells that can only be cast from "Inside" the battle) but also makes them vulnerable to be attacked and die in combat, so it has both pros and cons for the player that decides this.
But it has only pros for the game itself since it satisfies both kinds of players.
Also the whole Might & Magic franchise was originally based on battling heroes, even before Heroes I (which was more based on generic TBS), so it was a logic progression.
Thus Battling heroes is actually more "classic" M&M/NWC than non-battling heroes. H4 just integrated it where it belonged according to lore all along (we even get Tarnum vs Gelu in cinematics, etc. which is impossible ingame in H3).
***
Chinese teams may be fine for graphics, code and gameplay design, but don't let them make the campaign. It would feature some of the most uninspired and bland dialogue and boring grind level design of any installment (and that is to say a lot, since we got massive uninspired dialogue and level design in many installments), if my experiences with chinese games tell me something...
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 30, 2018 01:00 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 01:00, 30 Jun 2018.
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hahakocka said:
May be after a russian, a hungarian and a german team, there will be a chinese team? Because this market is huge also for M&M games and Heroes also. There is a big fan base there also ! (Russia Poland Germany Hungary are the others)
Chinese studios were outsourced all along in the Ubisoft era. Granted they weren't the main developer, but they played their part.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 30, 2018 02:18 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
I say, there is no safe base. There is no "paragon".
H4 did more than putting heroes on the battlefield. It changes the skill system, for example. It introduced Hero Classes (that is, a type of hero you become depending on the skills you pick).
That feature alone is worth a couple of thoughts. Hero specials you don't start with but acquite based on what happens.
There is a safe base, it’s the H1-H2-H3-H5 progression. It’s consistent and truly feels like a natural evolution gameplay-wise. And you know what, I will agree H4 classes and magic system is coherent with that progression, these are not the problems of H4 but its strong points. Among others battlefield heroes and lack of upgrades killed it, these features impact on the overall experience in a too huge and direct way, so it's the love it or hate it scenario which is unsafe by definition, and everything showed most fans hated it.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 30, 2018 08:27 AM |
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Galaad said:
JollyJoker said:
I say, there is no safe base. There is no "paragon".
H4 did more than putting heroes on the battlefield. It changes the skill system, for example. It introduced Hero Classes (that is, a type of hero you become depending on the skills you pick).
That feature alone is worth a couple of thoughts. Hero specials you don't start with but acquite based on what happens.
There is a safe base, it’s the H1-H2-H3-H5 progression. It’s consistent and truly feels like a natural evolution gameplay-wise. And you know what, I will agree H4 classes and magic system is coherent with that progression, these are not the problems of H4 but its strong points. Among others battlefield heroes and lack of upgrades killed it, these features impact on the overall experience in a too huge and direct way, so it's the love it or hate it scenario which is unsafe by definition, and everything showed most fans hated it.
I disagree. There is no progression. From H1 to H2, yes. From H2 to H3? Not so much.
In fact, if you think about it, H1 and H2 are "naive" games; fun, not serious, cartoonish, with the added plus that the games have a surprising depth.
H3 went serious - and destroyed this route, demonstrating that as soon as the scope of the game gets more involved, bigger, if you want to, the simple might/magic thing is out of kilter. In truth, H3 is ultimately flawed, but "gloriously" so, if you want to, like an Italian sportscar of the 1970s, and that's what makes H3 a dead end.
Would H5 had been another Itlian sportscar with a better engine? I doubt that. The game is too "clunky" and the balance too delicate, if there even is any.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 30, 2018 12:23 PM |
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It's not because there are differences between these games that they aren't coherent in their progression. Someone coming from H2 will have all his landmarks and get the gist of H3 rapidly, same goes for H5 (if you don't mind the 3D). There are much more similarities between these games than you give credit for, and given the overall success they got I call their common base healthy.
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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted June 30, 2018 12:34 PM |
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http://h.longtugame.com/
What is this? Heroes creatures and a hero are on the page!
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 30, 2018 12:37 PM |
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hahakocka said:
http://h.longtugame.com/
What is this? Heroes creatures and a hero are on the page!
It's the mobile game for China, Era of Chaos.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 30, 2018 01:10 PM |
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Galaad said:
It's not because there are differences between these games that they aren't coherent in their progression. Someone coming from H2 will have all his landmarks and get the gist of H3 rapidly, same goes for H5 (if you don't mind the 3D). There are much more similarities between these games than you give credit for, and given the overall success they got I call their common base healthy.
What the hell has that to do with anything? Everyone who has played any of those or similar games will have no problems "getting the gist" of any of those and a couple more. That's no point at all. It also doesn't say anything about the quality of a game. You get the gist of H7 fast enough - so what?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted June 30, 2018 01:14 PM |
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hahakocka said:
I hope for Heroes 4 skill like skill system and also Heroes on the battlefield but this time with balance!
I fail to see how they can properly balance this, given that Heroes are singular as opposed to stacksizes that can grow pretty much infinitely. The only way to implement it that I can see, is if you'd somehow make the Heroes the Gods of the world, commanding mundane troops to do their bidding.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 30, 2018 01:37 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 13:39, 30 Jun 2018.
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JollyJoker said:
What the hell has that to do with anything? Everyone who has played any of those or similar games will have no problems "getting the gist" of any of those and a couple more. That's no point at all. It also doesn't say anything about the quality of a game. You get the gist of H7 fast enough - so what?
You don't get it. By "getting the gist" I meant the gameplay is familiar enough. If you cannot see what I mean by comparing H3 with H4 then H3 with H5 or H2 with H3 I'm unsure I can ever reach you here.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 30, 2018 03:19 PM |
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Look, IF you were right, then H7 was your game. Clearly, when you played H3 and H5, it's child's play to get the gist of H7.
However, H7 is boring.
What more proof do you need? There is no safe base. Or better, if there is, it's not H3, that's the one thing that is safe, because H3 is flawed.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 30, 2018 03:30 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 15:40, 30 Jun 2018.
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The game H7 is the most similar to is H6, not H3 or H5. H7 has the core of H6 and added features from other games on top, it doesn't work that way. These two visions are not compatible with each other. H7 is a regression not an evolution.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 30, 2018 04:16 PM |
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Ha, ha, now you are being absurd. If you play H7 with random skills, which you can, you play a mix of H5 and H3. The only thing that is H6 is re-used graphic assets, which has nothing to do with gameplay.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 30, 2018 04:20 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 16:26, 30 Jun 2018.
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The skill tree was DESIGNED with manual pick, throwing in a random option afterwards does not do the job. Then you have the magic system, 7 schools like H6 and most spells were directly copied from it. There is more similarities with H6 than just the assets and it's not insignificant ones. H3 and H5 features are simply better in their respective games so in that sense H7 harms them. It's not doing a sequel or even only a best-of to do less good than predecessors, it's failing.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 30, 2018 04:31 PM |
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No, that's not true. The number og magic schools is irrelevant, when you use the same number for a hero as in H5 (and mostly in H3 as well). It's also irrelevant, considering that H1 and H2 have no magic schools at all - which doesn't bother you in the least. And although the skill tree started out as free pick, it doesn't matter. It's skill wheels as in H5 and with the random extra option you can play it like H3/H5. H5 Necro was DESIGNED very different as it later turned out after patch 1.3 or 1.4, and added a lot with the last expansion, same as H3.
So don't try to argue with me for the sake of arguing. H7 is everything you'd have wished for with your "safe base", and the game sucks. And that's not happenstance, it was to be expected.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 30, 2018 04:34 PM |
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I think I know better what I would have wished for than you and it's certainly not what they did with H7. And similarities are not irrelevant, it's core design we are talking about, not separated features.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 30, 2018 04:39 PM |
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Yes, and core design of H7 is most similar to H3 and H5. The game is based on them, and you said those were safe and solid.
It's not. And you are wrong.
There is nothing to discuss here. If you are unwilling to admit it, it's not my problem.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 30, 2018 04:41 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 16:52, 30 Jun 2018.
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Well the argument is I 100% object H7 is based on H3 and H5. And even if it really was, H3 and H5 are still better. H5 skill system remains vastly superior to H7's one so how you can see that as a mission accomplished is beyond me. If you base yourself on something, the result needs to be better or at the very least equal, which is not the case of H7 with H3 and H5 borrowed butchered features. And that is precisely because the core is NOT based on these games but rather on H6, despite the poor camouflage (yeah, H7's skill "wheel" alright).
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
