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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 03, 2014 04:37 PM |
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Delete it. It infringes CoC.
We can watch the drama on the website anyways. 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 03, 2014 04:41 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 16:42, 03 Nov 2014.
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Stevie said:
Delete it. It infringes CoC.
Will do if demanded by a moderator.
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emilsn91
Supreme Hero
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posted November 03, 2014 04:56 PM |
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I have been wondering ever since I saw the story line.
I do not see the posibilities of this game having expansions? If it is just random storylines will they then just add another faction to an expansion and tell their tale?
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Lokheit
Known Hero
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posted November 03, 2014 05:02 PM |
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Edited by Lokheit at 17:07, 03 Nov 2014.
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AcidDragon said:
I really have to post it here.
The latest video from CGP Grey, called "Quick and Easy Voting for Normal People"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orybDrUj4vA
In under 2 minutes it gives a sollution to our voting problems.
Also - check out his other voting videos. One of them, called "The Problems with First Past the Post Voting Explained" covers the problem we had with Sylvan line-up, that being the "minority rule", where we had an option win, despite the fact that the majority (55% of players) didn't want it.
The second video explains why Shield isn't managing to beat Blade with the example showing the "third party" absorbing votes from the one that have things in common and making it easier for the adversary faction to win the race. Most Faces and Shield voters have expressed in one way or another that they are against Blade and would even switch if there is an opportunity to eliminate Blade in the first round.
If given a vote of which lineup you want to eliminate rather than which one you want winning, would make Shield and Faces survive as their voters would unite against Blade instead of having to choose one of the others to save.
Luckily there is a second round and Blade probably won't survive it, but in a perfect world (voting against a faction or being able to asign 3points 2 points and 1point in your order of preference so that people's preferences are shown past the "favorite" pick) Blade wouldn't stand a chance in the first round.
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AcidDragon
Promising
Famous Hero
who lost his body somehow...
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posted November 03, 2014 05:19 PM |
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Lokheit said:
The second video explains why Shield isn't managing to beat Blade with the example showing the "third party" absorbing votes from the one that have things in common and making it easier for the adversary faction to win the race.
While this MIGHT be a problem with the current vote, as it was with Sylvan (as I do believe Fury was the "most different" with 2 unique units, while Balance and Strength were more similar) I don't believe it is.
Personally I'm OK with Blade and Faces, but I don't really like Shield.
Then again - you might be right, but whatever's the truth, the current vote doesn't show it.
If we changed the voting system to "vote for whatever's OK for you" or - as you suggested - rank our options then - as in the first video - the least supported option may actually be the best.
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vitirr
Known Hero
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posted November 03, 2014 05:35 PM |
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AcidDragon said:
Personally I'm OK with Blade and Faces, but I don't really like Shield.
How is that even possible? Do you hate manticores or something? Or are you one of those who believed that "shield is defensive, dark elf dungeon can't be defensive" mantra?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 03, 2014 05:39 PM |
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So what if he believed it? That's how the descriptions present them.
And I do share his opinion as in favoring Faces and Blade above Shield.
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vitirr
Known Hero
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posted November 03, 2014 05:50 PM |
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Stevie said:
So what if he believed it? That's how the descriptions present them.
Nothing, I'm just formulating the question because I fail to see which other reason might be behind anyone having blades and faces over shield (faces and shield being similar).
In any case I don't think the line up is defensive at all no matter what the description says. It has a flyer in elite unlike faces, which has access to flyers only at champion (making the hydra a useless choice by the way). Only for that reason I think faces is way more defensive than shield.
And anyway I think the bulk of the damage should come from heroes spells, so it doesn't really matter if any line up is slightly more defensive or not.
Stevie said:
And I do share his opinion as in favoring Faces and Blade above Shield.
Good for you
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AcidDragon
Promising
Famous Hero
who lost his body somehow...
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posted November 03, 2014 05:57 PM |
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vitirr said:
How is that even possible? Do you hate manticores or something? Or are you one of those who believed that "shield is defensive, dark elf dungeon can't be defensive" mantra?
In the Blade line-up I like the fact that there are 4 fliers-or-teleporters that will dominate the labirynth-like battlefields and I like the Faceless as a race and as a creature. Plus, I would like to see Shadow Unicorns.
In the Faces line-up I like the nostalgic "Heroes III" feel, with Troglodytes and Medusas having a comeback plus it's the best line-up for shooters (1 in core, 1 in elite).
While a defensive Dungeon doesn't work for me. Manticores are... OK, but they were there in Heroes VI and as I don't believe them to be an iconic Dungeon creature, I would like something else this time. The core looks pretty weak too, with the Stalker as the only "damage-dealer", while I'd rather have two. I also feel that Dungeon should be more offensive than defensive.
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vitirr
Known Hero
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posted November 03, 2014 06:04 PM |
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I fail to see how what I assume will be a mix of naga and H5 matriarch can trigger the nostalgic H3 feel so much more than the lurkers (evil eyes) and manticores from shield. I'm talking here not about you only but in general,as there are so many comments of people who seem to vote faces just for medusa.
And as I said before I can't understand how shield is considered more defensive than faces.
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AcidDragon
Promising
Famous Hero
who lost his body somehow...
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posted November 03, 2014 06:13 PM |
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vitirr said:
I fail to see how what I assume will be a mix of naga and H5 matriarch can trigger the nostalgic H3 feel so much more than the lurkers (evil eyes) and manticores from shield. I'm talking here not about you only but in general,as there are so many comments of people who seem to vote faces just for medusa.
Well the Lurkers don't really give ma a "Heroes III" vibe, mostly because of how different they are. The Manticore - like I said - is "OK", but it was already there, it already had its comeback in Heroes VI. So that appetite was already satisfied  . I guess the same could be said about Lurkers too.
vitirr said:
And as I said before I can't understand how shield is considered more defensive than faces.
Well basically because the authors said so. I really, really doubt the authors would miscategorize their own line-ups and if they say that a line-up is defensive, then even if it was comprised of 7 shooters, I would believe that. I would just assume that the creature stats would force it to be defensive.
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vitirr
Known Hero
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posted November 03, 2014 06:22 PM |
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That's too much trust in Ubi/Limbic . But ok, I see your points though I disagree.
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jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted November 03, 2014 06:38 PM |
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AcidDragon said:
Well basically because the authors said so. I really, really doubt the authors would miscategorize their own line-ups and if they say that a line-up is defensive, then even if it was comprised of 7 shooters, I would believe that. I would just assume that the creature stats would force it to be defensive.
But a lot of people seem to think that Shield of Darkness would be a purely defensive faction, which doesn't make much sense... And if you read the descriptions for all three line-ups for Dungeon, and the three for Sylvan too, they're pretty poorly written. They should have done a much better job with all the descriptions.
When the Devs describe Shield as defensive, Faces as balanced, and Blade as offensive, they're comparing them to each other. Shield is defensive compared to Blade, and we don't know by how much. A lot of people seem not to understand this and assume Shield would be a purely defensive line-up. Looking at the Shield line-up, without the defensive label, we would have no reason to believe it's defensive, and that's because it's not. Overall, it's still more offensive than defensive.
What frustrates me is that Shield is losing mostly because of the "defensive" label, which is exactly what happened to Strength during the Sylvan vote. Marzhin even weighed in by saying that the three different line-ups wouldn't play dramatically different from each other, that they're all still Sylvan after all. He basically said that the differences between the offensive, balanced, and defensive labels are being vastly exaggerated.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted November 03, 2014 06:46 PM |
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Yep.
Saying a line-up is defensive = people losing their sh1t. Cause [insert faction here] was never defensive!
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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AcidDragon
Promising
Famous Hero
who lost his body somehow...
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posted November 03, 2014 06:51 PM |
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If that's true (and I'm not conviced it is), then the authors simply shouldn't put the defensive "label" on Shield. Personally if I wanted a defensive faction and if I voted for a faction with a "defensive" label and then in the end I got a faction that still is more offensive than defensive, then I would be really pissed off and would feel cheated-out.
So either the authors made a "labeling" mistake and they are to blame that people seeing a "defensive" label think the faction is defensive - so it's not the voters' fault - or you are wrong and defensive simply means defensive.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted November 03, 2014 06:55 PM |
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Sorry about that. I meant it as a bit of a joke and, admittedly, a poor one at that. But it seems I forgot the smiley to indicate that one should not take it too seriously.
I've corrected that now.
I was simply making a bit light of the fact that both times the "defensive" line-up is not doing well in the polls and many of the advocates of the "offensive"-option do so because it is "Offensive". I personally do think the labels are taken too seriously, but not that they are completely wrong.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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AcidDragon
Promising
Famous Hero
who lost his body somehow...
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posted November 03, 2014 07:18 PM |
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Just for the record - I got the joke . I was referring to jackson's post.
And yes, I do agree that many voters vote "offensive" because they see "offensive". However I do think it's rather understandable and natural. If I go into a store and see candy with tastes of "banana", "apple" and "strawberry", then this is what I expect. Not "banana", "a bit like apple but still banana" and "somewhat strawberry but mostly banana".
Everything else - the "ingredient list", the description or reasoning - comes later. The label comes first.
So if people happen to like banana... errr... offensive Dungeon, then they'll vote for the "offensive" label.
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted November 03, 2014 07:27 PM |
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For me early creeping and capturing mines without loses is very important. What line-up do you think is best suited for this?
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted November 03, 2014 07:35 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
For me early creeping and capturing mines without loses is very important. What line-up do you think is best suited for this?
Shield.
Shield has a tank (Trog), which is designed to take hits, a ranged damage dealer(Stalker) and a ranged debuffer(Eye/Lurker). Their range keeping them out of harms way more easily and also for decimating the enemy before they reach the Trogs or dealing with enemy ranged.
Faces trades the Eye for an Assassin, which is a melee damage dealer, and one reliant on positioning at that. Advancing your Assassins before your Trogs is risky, keeping your Assassins back loses you time.
Blades trades the Stalker for a Skirmisher, a no-retal + strike and return unit and the Trog for an Assassin. Skirmishers are walker-harpies. Which puts your already not designed to take damage Assassin in the position as the only thing that is likely to suffer retal damage.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted November 03, 2014 08:28 PM |
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Changed my vote to thousand faces. Shield is done for anyway.
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
