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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted January 20, 2015 09:10 PM |
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Too bad... I liked Heroes 5, a lot. I hate the direction that this franchise is taking... 
EDIT:
@Verriker
Your comments make my day,sir 
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 20, 2015 09:11 PM |
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Steyn said:
Though I agree that H had a bit too many twilight heroes, I don't understand why everyone seems to want only decayed necromancers. In the stories, especially for woman, turning to necromancy often is to preserve one's youth/beauty. Living eternally as a skeleton is not so attractive.
Besides, isn't Markal one of the best necromancer from the series, while still being alive.
In stories, women turned to witchcraft in order to preserve their beauty, not necromancy. Also Markal has an excuse because he's alive, while the "non-rotten vampire" card stinks of twilight and it has been played so many times it became annoying.
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted January 20, 2015 09:26 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
A lot of H5 concepts where declared non-canon since Erwan took the wheel
Erwan was already the creative director of the franchise during H5.
The real problem with the H5 designs is the fact they "borrow" heavily from Warhammer miniatures, and Games Workshop was, let's say, not too happy about it.
So when H6 began production, Ubi had to make sure this wouldn't happen again to avoid legal issues with GW.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted January 20, 2015 09:29 PM |
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But they could have kept skeletal litches. Something like this (couldn't find the thread where this was posted):
Also, that ("borrowing") is not the reason to retcon everything, imo.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 20, 2015 09:31 PM |
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Marzhin said:
Erwan was already the creative director of the franchise during H5.
The real problem with the H5 designs is the fact they "borrow" heavily from Warhammer miniatures, and Games Workshop was, let's say, not too happy about it.
So when H6 began production, Ubi had to make sure this wouldn't happen again to avoid legal issues with GW.
yet Blizzard seems chill 
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted January 20, 2015 09:34 PM |
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ROFL 
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted January 20, 2015 09:35 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
In stories, women turned to witchcraft in order to preserve their beauty, not necromancy. Also Markal has an excuse because he's alive, while the "non-rotten vampire" card stinks of twilight and it has been played so many times it became annoying.
While you're right about witchcraft, "non-rotten vampires" existed looong before that garbage. Actually, I don't remember any rotten vampires at all. Even Nosferatu weren't, though they were not so charming.
Hell, even in mythology majority of Vampires are good-looking and not rotten. That was one of the ways of distinguishing a Vampire from ordinary corpse.
About skeletal liches - H6 Lich bio says that they keep aging until they look like mummies. Why not make H5 Liches just "aged" version of H6 Liches? That seems logical to me and doesn't screw up H5.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted January 20, 2015 09:35 PM |
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if they really had to imitate someone else for H5, I'm not sure why they couldn't just "borrow" from the Might and Magic franchise instead,
you know, the one whose name goes on the box
eh though, I guess there's always a risk of ending up with someone in charge who thinks copying another franchise's more "contemporary" or "modern" style is a wise move and not just silly plagiarism lol
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 20, 2015 09:41 PM |
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Quote:
While you're right about witchcraft, "non-rotten vampires" existed looong before that garbage. Actually, I don't remember any rotten vampires at all. Even Nosferatu weren't, though they were not so charming.
Hell, even in mythology majority of Vampires are good-looking and not rotten. That was one of the ways of distinguishing a Vampire from ordinary corpse.
Well at least they aren't highschool students. Plus the Moroi and Strigoi, Romanian original vampires, are more like spirits or zombies and they take the forms of animals like bats, wolves, crows, bedbugs, fleas etc. It's true that there are living strigoi, but a living strigoi it's just a cruel man, that is gonna become a dead strigoi after death ( ). Most vampires in mythology aren't "modern" vampires but rather spirits/zombies which can take the form of mist or animal to drain life force (i.e: blood).
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted January 20, 2015 09:45 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 21:55, 20 Jan 2015.
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Do you want to get a feeling of Necropolis in Heroes VII? Check this. These are all cards of Necropolis from DoC. I think they are quite accurate in presenting the looks of Necro units, as it was seen in case of the Academy and Haven.
PS. DO NOT SPEAK ABOUT COLOUR! Issue, that is important to me, is units' design (except colours). Do you like it?
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted January 20, 2015 09:48 PM |
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So a lot of green and a little bit purple here and there.
EDIT: Colours aside, design is too much H6/Warcraft for me. I prefer something like H3 necropolis.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted January 20, 2015 09:58 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Well at least they aren't highschool students. Plus the Moroi and Strigoi, Romanian original vampires, are more like spirits or zombies and they take the forms of animals like bats, wolves, crows, bedbugs, fleas etc. It's true that there are living strigoi, but a living strigoi it's just a cruel man, that is gonna become a dead strigoi after death (). Most vampires in mythology aren't "modern" vampires but rather spirits/zombies which can take the form of mist or animal to drain life force (i.e: blood).
Well, Ashan vampires are not highschool students either 
About Strigoi - yes, they are kinda monstrous. But even in myths its kinda like exception from the rule. But Witcher did Strigoi well.
And I should say I like modern vampires more than simple blood-drinking zombies. Not Garbage version, ofc.
I don't really see a problem with Ashan vampires as a whole (vein was cool in SoD), though surely H6 version with that big guitar sword and overly decorated armor... its too much. But that's H6's general problem, even Haven is over-decorated.
And actually, Egyptian style can be quite scaring if done right. Less green ofc, those ghools and spiders alone are creepy.
Btw, if fans will really push hard for nosferatu vampires, there's a way to implement them - as Beastmen (human + bats), though I think they would become neutrals.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted January 20, 2015 09:58 PM |
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verriker said:
if they really had to imitate someone else for H5, I'm not sure why they couldn't just "borrow" from the Might and Magic franchise instead,
you know, the one whose name goes on the box
Oh don't get me wrong, I totally agree with this, personally.
But all these decisions were taken before I joined the team, and what's done is done. For better or worse, H6 is considered the canonical art style for Ashan now. Even I must admit I actually like most of it.
Since I joined, I've been trying to at least bring back some of the flavour of the old games. But there are some battles I simply won't win, and the lich/vampire debate is one of those.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted January 20, 2015 10:01 PM |
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Marzhin said:
H6 is considered the canonical art style for Ashan now.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 20, 2015 10:03 PM |
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But why Ubi does hold a grip on the lore/art-style? Shouldn't the publisher be more concerned about gameplay issues/deadlines/customers' receptivity? Shouldn't the lore/art-style be at the hand of the developer?
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted January 20, 2015 10:05 PM |
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Marzhin said:
Since I joined, I've been trying to at least bring back some of the flavour of the old games. But there are some battles I simply won't win, and the lich/vampire debate is one of those.
ah yeah dude I understand you're doing good work, like I said in PM whatever I say isn't personal against you,
I totally recognize that Erwin's the main one responsible for shoving these kinds of things down our neck lol
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted January 20, 2015 10:06 PM |
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Bah, after H3 Necropolis has fallen low on my favorite faction list. If there is truth in the info that H7 Necros are re-sinned H6 Necros then I won't be very happy...
Nevertheless it's fun to see how a little bit of Necro tidbit made things lively on this board...
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted January 20, 2015 10:08 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
But why Ubi does hold a grip on the lore/art-style? Shouldn't the publisher be more concerned about gameplay issues/deadlines/customers' receptivity? Shouldn't the lore/art-style be at the hand of the developer?
IP consistency. Since several development teams work on Might & Magic projects, it's important to keep an unified art style regardless on who is making the game. You need to feel that all games belong to the same franchise, and that meant consistent art style. If each Might & Magic had its own art style it would not be good IMO (I know I had issues with this during the NWC/3DO era).
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 20, 2015 10:12 PM |
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Thanks for clarifying this But anyway, the pre-h6 Might and Magic titles are also part of the series, even if they don't share the same art style, why was it necessary to change it again at h6, instead of trying to keep consistency?
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Greenlore
Known Hero
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posted January 20, 2015 10:14 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
Btw, if fans will really push hard for nosferatu vampires, there's a way to implement them - as Beastmen (human + bats), though I think they would become neutrals.
Overall I think there are always ways to justify changes like that even while keeping previous designs canon too.
They could simply say that these vampires have underwent an altered ritual to gain this vampirism/underwent a second ritual for some reason,like new/different powers,because of a certain incident(like the time when mother namtaru was about to disappear in H6) or because they have a different belief and found another way to gain vampirism(except for this eternal beauty deal)
I mean they had no problem including gorgons into the dungeon despite the fact that they are nagas,I think it won't be hard to justify some different version of the vampire(same goes for other creatures too,skeletal liches shouldn't be hard to justify either)
____________
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
