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Alex_Yakub
Famous Hero
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posted January 25, 2015 10:24 PM |
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Sorry for the double post. Darn you, lagging internet!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 25, 2015 10:34 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted January 25, 2015 10:37 PM |
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How Ubisoft developed M&M: Heroes 7
Erwan: "guys any ideas of which franchise we will copy in the next Heroes game?"
Another person: "yea let's try to copy Elder scrolls for once."
Erwan: "Nah that's stupid. It must fit Ashan."
Another person: "How about Warhammer. I love this game ... with all the Liche Priests ... and Tomb Kings ... and Bretonia ..."
Erwan: "Nah ... we did try that back in H5 days remember ... we are still in legal process with those guys."
Another person: "Well World of Warcraft it is then I guess..."
Erwan: "It is alongside our guidelines. We will copy them. It's settled."
Another person: "But we did this in the last 2 games. We are running out of material Blizzard is letting us copy. And we don't have enough money to continue paying them..."
Erwan: "you dare question your superiors?"
Another person: "No sir! I have always been most loyal to you. It's just the fact that money is tight right now. We can't affort to keep the same ..."
Erwan: "The same! Yes! That's it!"
Another person: "the what sir?"
Erwan: "we will use same models as we did in previous game! By god man you are a genius! This is why I have been keeping you at my side all these years."
Another person: "that's not what..."
Erwan: "Quiet now. Call the artists, they are bound to have leftover alternate art still lying around. Using that, we will make most money with least effort."
Another person: "..."
Erwan: "we are now staring not only at new HoMM, but at our new business model for the future. Reserve my ticket to Bahamas, and call me with your progress. Now move it!"
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Alex_Yakub
Famous Hero
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posted January 25, 2015 10:48 PM |
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Stevie said:
Alex_Yakub said:
Heroes III and Civilization V disagree with you.
May I add AoW3 too. If only Heroes 7 would be like those.
Yeah, can't undersatnd how I could forget good old AoW. Also, if Heroes 7 will turn on par with these games, I'll be super happy. Like, SUPER happy 
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 25, 2015 10:58 PM |
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@Zombie_Wizzard: 
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted January 25, 2015 11:14 PM |
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Stevie said:
Alex_Yakub said:
Heroes III and Civilization V disagree with you.
May I add AoW3 too. If only Heroes 7 would be like those.
you tellin' me any of those measure up to WoW in popularity? Civ does, but that's the exception that confirms the rule. H3 and AoW (need to check that out) are still only known to already established fans (even then, i think more people will know about fire emblem than h3). face it, TBS's are a niche genre and thus will never reach mass appeal. is that bad, though? I mean, only those who cares about it will get into the market, right? ...right?
Basically, don' expect the same attention to detail, polish and acknowledgement you find in more mainstream genres; it ain't affordable with a small userbase (granted, Ubi don't polish jack snow, but whatever) (unless you're Civ).
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 25, 2015 11:15 PM |
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rofl
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A8T
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 25, 2015 11:34 PM |
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I just had a quick look at Warhammer Necro equivalent and then more necro character designs and:
A: I don't see that any of the H5 designs are not THAT similar to Warhammer at all (unless I missed the particular image).
B: That said generally allot of design elements seem to be used very commonly in completely different universes. The Armoured, Big Sword Bearing, Long Haired and Caped Vampire is becoming more common these days and is even seen in comics in Marvel's Dracula and in films though the recent Dracula movie. The Lich with the Staff and book is another. Skeletons always look like skeletons obviously.
C: I don't think any of the previous games were necessarily more original in their designs. In fact I get the impression (although I could be wrong) that the early MM games were all about light heartedly referencing as much popular culture as possible. I mean, Dinosaurs, Ninjas and Aliens all in one story 
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 02:49 AM |
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They should care actually about the design of Necropolis considering it's basically the most popular faction of all time ( or at least it used to be ), and screwing them up might decrease sales significantly. Which means no additional races via expansions for us, which would suck elephant balls. Their budget is snowty as it is.
Speaking of expansions, maybe it's way too early to talk about that, but I hope they don't release 3 expansions with just one faction in every. That'd be ultimate money milking. But then again, it's Ubisoft.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted January 26, 2015 06:35 AM |
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Edited by Avonu at 06:39, 26 Jan 2015.
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Erwan: "Quiet now. Call the artists, they are bound to have leftover alternate art still lying around. Using that, we will make most money with least effort."
Another person: "..."
Erwan: "we are now staring not only at new HoMM, but at our new business model for the future. Reserve my ticket to Bahamas, and call me with your progress. Now move it!"
Unfortunately this is exactly Ubisoft's business model for next few years. I can't find a link, but there were some articles about Ubisoft's policy of reusing previous games resources to "have less bugs and done games quicker" (read: EA's FIFA games model ) some times ago.
I guess it's another Ubisoft's "brilliant" idea, after "no printed manual", "always on-line 'experience'", "U(won't)Play" and others.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 08:18 AM |
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OBVIOUSLY, the problem isn't - as has been stated - that models are re-used, but that not-so-cool models are re-used. So the dialogues are somewhat wrong.
And if you ask ME, the new models make things even worse, mainly because there is no connection. (I didn't know about "Grim Riders" in Ashan - they might fit something like a "Void Necropolis", but then the rest doesn't fit AT ALL.)
Void Necropolis would also have to get a silvery shimmer or something.
But that would create different problems.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 26, 2015 08:27 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 08:32, 26 Jan 2015.
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As far as the name goes I'd much prefer Reaper -> Grim Reaper to Grim Rider -> Grim Reaper.
And that's just the name, the unit itself looks like a recycled Necro hero model.
Plus a scythe seems like the worst possible weapon of choice for a mounted unit, at least to me.
And that's it for me regarding that unit I guess.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 09:01 AM |
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As I said, no matter what you think of it, it's NON-Ashan. It's also foolish, considering HoMM 5's very classy Wraith.
I consider the Grim Rider as a very cheap effort to "give the fans something they will like" - which seems to actually work. 
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted January 26, 2015 09:08 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
I consider the Grim Rider as a very cheap effort to "give the fans something they will like" - which seems to actually work.
And you think that is a problem?
Fun&gameplay >> lore
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 09:15 AM |
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So Sandro does not fit either then, as he is from "Void Necropolis"? 
I don't know about cheap way of giving us a good unit, but considering the fact, that Grim Reaper is one of the few units they had to make more or less from scratch, I would say it costed more than whole reused Haven and Necro units combined
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 09:20 AM |
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Of course it's a problem, a big one even.
It makes no sense to go to great length to change a classic horror faction with classic horror unit "according to lore", making it the faction of the "spider goddess", letting vampires "age in reverse", coming up with a "spider-adjusted Egyptian/Babylonian" theme - to put in a mix of apocalyptic rider and Christian idea of a deathbringer.
The result is, that the faction has no coherence. A Spider and a Scythe Rider on a skeletal horse, a silly Dragon Skeleton, a Lamasu, a Skeleton pimped up like a dead king, a wispy Ghost, a Shaolin-monk-Lich, a Vampire Knight in armour - what's that supposed to be?
Not to mention that it looks indeed like a Necro model.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted January 26, 2015 09:43 AM |
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So, in short, you want to have a faction united by its neon-green colours, banners, spikes and S&B gear?
Guess what? Ubisoft tried this approch in Heroes 6 and it didn't stick. You can see in comments about Heroes 7 Necropolis elites, that players don't like them at all. They don't like their appereance, they don't like thier gear and they didn't like their neon-green uni-colour.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 09:48 AM |
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I strongly suspect JJ is the mysterious "Another person" from my dialogue post
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 09:54 AM |
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Avonu said:
So, in short, you want to have a faction united by its neon-green colours, banners, spikes and S&B gear?
Guess what? Ubisoft tried this approch in Heroes 6 and it didn't stick. You can see in comments about Heroes 7 Necropolis elites, that players don't like them at all. They don't like their appereance, they don't like thier gear and they didn't like their neon-green uni-colour.
That's not what I want, and that's not what I said - and if you wouldn't try to read what you want to read, you wouldn't probably have a reading comprehension problem.
When you sell something you do as "building a coherent faction within the lore rules of a fleshed-out gaming world", it makes no sense to try and point to that to justify all kinds of questionable design decisions and then suddenly don't give a damn anymore.
In other words - it makes no sense to desparately come up with your own style, then leave the most hated stuff in, making it even worse, but mitigate it by throwing in something in a different style.
Instead it would have made more sense to keep to the Ashan lore - but simply make BETTER models.
The way it is now, it's still crappy, but also not coherent - you COULD ask, if they can come up with a Grim Reaper, why can't they make a reasomnable Vampire or Lich as well? And why do we have to get a spider now.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 26, 2015 10:23 AM |
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Quote:
I don't know about cheap way of giving us a good unit, but considering the fact, that Grim Reaper is one of the few units they had to make more or less from scratch
How do we know it's not a reskinned Necro hero?
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
