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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 31, 2015 07:54 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
Wow.. shut up and go read bed time stories or grow up, guess what thing change.... I haven't been disgusted by a comment in such a way, since JE posted his ideas of gender depiction
That is a bit too vocal Dave. People are entitled to their opinions, no need to get personal.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted January 31, 2015 08:35 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
Instead of „Ballistics“, let us create a general ability related to „Siege warfare“, and why not call it so. I‘ll base this on the H5 skill model. 3 levels (B-A-E) with perks
I like this idea. You would be able to create a hero who specialize in sige warfare, be it defensive or agressive. Imo it would be better if there would be split perkes for either defensive and offensive skills. Similar on how for eg. Destruction magic school was divided into frost, fire and lightning. (if this statement makes any sense)
I however don't know how ladders would be utilized. I like the idea, but then we would need animation for creatures climbing. Or would they just teleport over? How about large creatures that take 4 squares? would they be able to pass aswell? Or cavalary and centaurs 
Also wall repair is something I've been wanting for long. Even as a spell - like the oposite of Earthquake. Or maybe Chabirs or certain creatures would be able to repair them.
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted January 31, 2015 08:43 PM |
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Quote:
I like this idea. You would be able to create a hero who specialize in sige warfare, be it defensive or agressive. Imo it would be better if there would be split perkes for either defensive and offensive skills. Similar on how for eg. Destruction magic school was divided into frost, fire and lightning. (if this statement makes any sense)
Aren't dwarves basically like this? They love their defensive, turtle like playstyle. Defeating them while dug up + shield guards was next to impossible. Especially if they had mass endurance + mass deflect missile active. Nothing gets through that.
But this time around, it would be awesome if we got a whole skilltree. Dwarves should have a good offense too, considering how much technology and ranged firepower they have. Skills focusing, on balistas, catapults, or maybe some kind of siege canon.
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted January 31, 2015 11:08 PM |
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Edited by cleglaw at 23:11, 31 Jan 2015.
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Stormcaller said:
But this time around, it would be awesome if we got a whole skilltree. Dwarves should have a good offense too, considering how much technology and ranged firepower they have. Skills focusing, on balistas, catapults, or maybe some kind of siege canon.
dont forget their glasswork mastery too. it may really come in handy with weapon tech. also no h5 initiative system means defensive fighting style to be acctually usefull. no 2342342 actions per round for offensive line-ups. 
about the skilltree, i really want it to appear in game with some explanations. h5 didnt had it in game with any kind of visuals, i was looking to celestialheavens site when i level up... or just picking totally randomly not knowing where it will lead me to next.
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Articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted January 31, 2015 11:30 PM |
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Dunno if it has been discussed already here but anw.
Firstly, Ashan as a universe doesn't bother me all that much. Yeah, it follows more stereotypes in cases of races and Factions but even so, manages to keep some of the feel of older heroes and has a somewhat solid background that can be explored.
Now, as fore heroes VII, i really hoped for a 4/4/3 or a 5/4/3 of units system in towns. And by that i mean that you would be able to choose 3 between 4 or 5 core units, the same for elites and 1 for champion. There won't be any restriction between the units to be build, but you can have only 3 of each tier.
I also know that this will hugely increase the number of units and creatures per faction and the adventure map (which is fine and nice to us, as it adds more originality per map, better customization and strategic town building etc) but also the problems concerning balance, stats and abilities. Though to be honest, i don't really consider it that Utopian or impossible.
Unfortunately, though i believe that heroes deserves such a treat for re-playablity purposes, it won't happen, mainly because it is too hard work-wise, and our friends in ubisoft has shown us that they value their laziness and also because it is too out of the box for them.
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted February 01, 2015 12:06 AM |
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Pawek_13 said:
Problem is that gamers are awfully conservative group. They are hardly convinced to changes in their favourite games and revolutions in gameplay are often seen very poorly, so introducing new content can be risky... "Because it doesn't feel like Heroes games anymore"...
Here is a link that copes with that problem extensively and does it better than I would.
Thanks for the link. People want improvement, not change. H1 established the formula. H2 improved it. H3 improved it as well. H4 tried to changed, and it ended up badly. H5 returned to H3 but made some improvements. For H6 I cannot say anything since I didn't play the game. But one thing is certain. If H4 was not a heroes game, but some new game that established its own formula, than it would probably be successful. It appears that the first game can 'do whatever it wants' since it establishes the basis to build upon. Making new games is similar to planting a tree. When you plant an oak tree you want to watch it as it grows and develops. One does not want to have at one point a pine tree or cactus instead of the oak tree.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted February 01, 2015 12:11 AM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 12:35, 01 Feb 2015.
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Articun said:
Now, as fore heroes VII, i really hoped for a 4/4/3 or a 5/4/3 of units system in towns. And by that i mean that you would be able to choose 3 between 4 or 5 core units, the same for elites and 1 for champion. There won't be any restriction between the units to be build, but you can have only 3 of each tier.
In my opinion (and I guess in opinion of others) adding new units to the factions is a brilliant idea as it brings tons of strategic depth into gameplay. However, this is the thing they would add in expansion pack because adding 3 new models to each faction (there can be up to 9 of them) is quite a lot of work and I am pretty sure this idea will be considered (among adding Fortress, Inferno and Sanctuary) but at first they should make solid base game to even think about releasing expansion packs and creating additional content.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted February 01, 2015 08:17 AM |
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@Pawek
Having diferent defence for each faction during siege battles, or adding skills focused on sige defence or offence, like Dave suggested, is not changing heroes formula lol. It goes into category of adding things. Specialy coz it was already done to some extent.
H3 - stronghold faction had building that allowed them to retreat when sieged, and instead of moat they had randomly placed obsticles.
H5 - Academy's moat was invisible, and blinded creatures steping on them in adition of damaging them. Dwarves had stronger walls, and spawned huge number of tier 1 defenders at begining of siege battle for defenders.
There were more examples, but this is just from top of my head.
My suggestion was taking this idea and simply expanding it. Like Necromancy ability has been expanded, so now every faction has it's own speciality. (tho it was originaly there to replace leadership skill)
It's just like your suggestion of adding more units in core and elite tiers. It's definitley something I would want, and has also been suggested once or twice before. Imo it would be great so I realy hope they will add this in expansion.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted February 01, 2015 11:38 AM |
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Quote:
H3 - stronghold faction had building that allowed them to retreat when sieged, and instead of moat they had randomly placed obsticles.
Huh? Stronghold had a moat too
Also H3 Tower had invisible moat too (land mines), tough they didn't blind their enemies
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 01, 2015 12:10 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
Articun said:
Now, as fore heroes VII, i really hoped for a 4/4/3 or a 5/4/3 of units system in towns. And by that i mean that you would be able to choose 3 between 4 or 5 core units, the same for elites and 1 for champion. There won't be any restriction between the units to be build, but you can have only 3 of each tier.
In my opinion (and I guess in opinion of others) adding new units to the factions is a brilliant idea as it brings tons of strategic depth into gameplay. However, this is the thing they would add in expansion pack because adding 3 new models to each faction (there can be up to 9 of them) is quite a lot of work and I am pretty sure this idea will be considered (among adding Fortress, Inferno and Sanctuary) but at first theyshould make solid base game to even think about releasing expansion packs and creating additional content.
As much as I like the sound of Articun's idea, even though this is not the first time this or something extremely similar is proposed, Pawek hits the nail on the head.
Unless there is a solid basegame, all the extra bells and whistles are wasted on a broken game.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted February 01, 2015 12:31 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Quote:
H3 - stronghold faction had building that allowed them to retreat when sieged, and instead of moat they had randomly placed obsticles.
Huh? Stronghold had a moat too
Also H3 Tower had invisible moat too (land mines), tough they didn't blind their enemies
In Restoration of Erathia, Stronghold didn't have a moat, but randomly placed obstacles as mentioned. Moat was added with later expansions.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted February 01, 2015 12:49 PM |
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frostymuaddib said:
In Restoration of Erathia, Stronghold didn't have a moat, but randomly placed obstacles as mentioned. Moat was added with later expansions.
Yes, was about to say this (didn't have time to respond before). Moat was added coz randomly placed obstacles were deemd inferior to moat, that other factions had. It was balance reason.
However this (H3 vanila) was the reason for my initial idea, that some other forms of defence would be suitable instead of moats for all factions. I was hoping this would hapen back then with H5 actualy, but it didn't. I'm still waiting for this feature to be introduced basicaly
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted February 01, 2015 02:13 PM |
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i don't mind sieges as they are now, however some way of starving out or blockading towns would be nice. if you are too weak to assault but to strong for the defendant to actively go out and face you a way of capturing the town by blockading it over a certain amount of turns would be nice. similar to how total war allows you to just starve the defendant out. just an idea mind you. the design of the average heroes game don't really allow for a total war system as it would be horribly unbalanced.
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Articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted February 01, 2015 02:28 PM |
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But would't be easier to make this system of extra creatures in factions the vanilla? I mean, with an expansion like tribes of the east you have to cteate a new faction and implement new units for the old one while previously having worked hard to balance the already present units. Whilst if you add one or two to elite and core, you balance them before the expansion and use that knowledge to add one or two new factions.
Saying that, the only way we are gonna see all factions in heroes 7 is either by selling so well that 3 expansions will be a must or if the first expansion adds two Factions with the theme of "the saga of water and fiee" which will.add sanctuary and then either Inferno or Fortress
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 01, 2015 02:52 PM |
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Articun said:
But would't be easier to make this system of extra creatures in factions the vanilla? I mean, with an expansion like tribes of the east you have to cteate a new faction and implement new units for the old one while previously having worked hard to balance the already present units. Whilst if you add one or two to elite and core, you balance them before the expansion and use that knowledge to add one or two new factions.
You would think that. But the problem is that the derelict that was Heroes 6 needed to be cleared and the game needed to be built from the ground up. Before you start thinking about Heroes games with factions of 10 or more creatures, you need to get a Heroes game with 8 creatures in a faction done right.
And it does not matter when you add things, balance will be very hard to get right. And when you add anything, even a single unit, this has implications on everything.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted February 01, 2015 03:59 PM |
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Edited by Kenishi at 16:47, 01 Feb 2015.
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So just to brake the discussion for a sec there was a stream on twitch for the lunch of Heroes 3 HD with Erwan himself and shares some information about the franchise and the decisions taken. Also seams that M&M X wasn't a stellar success making the future of RPG series centered on Might and Magi an uncertainty
http://www.twitch.tv/ubisoft/b/617240324
P.S. In the video he is talking directly about the RPG (forgot to ad an X after M&M) series although poor sales is the death of any game/series especially as niche as this one. (in respone to th post of Stormcaller and FrostyMuadDib)
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted February 01, 2015 04:19 PM |
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We already knew that Might and magic's future is uncertain. It will greatly depend on how h7's sales go. I hope they can sell 2-3 milion of copies.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted February 01, 2015 04:26 PM |
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If they make good game, they may sell. But if they mess up, I doubt it. As for M&M X, I enjoyed the game. Not counting HoMMV, it was my favourite M&M game from Ubi.
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A8T
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 01, 2015 04:54 PM |
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Meh, I am not sure if the whole M&M series is under threat. Not every title needs to be a top seller, as long as they make enough money out of it without spending loads. I think they could be happy to let it fill a niche at the moment (I am speculating, don't hold me to this). And its convenient for them to have a single fantasy universe to try different game types in (Dark Messiah, Clash of Heroes, etc).
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted February 01, 2015 05:27 PM |
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I wouldn't be so sure ... afterall Heroes series almost hit the bucket with H4, and Ubi basicaly revived it from dead. H6 wasn't great success (I assume - idk how much did they sell actualy). If they decide it dosen't generate enough profit, it's quite possible they will stop making them, and this is last game.
Imo the success depends if it will atract new people. H7 should be focused on this, and also making them stay. Only by atracting new people can franchise grow, as it is the definition of growth.
I think art style of H6 and H7 was made with this in mind, as it is popular style of fantasy games in general, even if it greatly displeases old fans.
However I belive they should focus also on campaign. If they would make story in such way, that new people, who never played heroes game before can jump right in, and make story interasting for once, and missions less tedious, then new players will be interasted. And yes this also means more generous dificulty. I belive Hard should still be hard, and there should be extra hard mode for veteran players, but easy, and normal should be suited for those that never played heroes game before.
Third and arguably most important is multiplayer. This has a lot of staying power. It should have a good match serch options, and as I mentioned a healthy ammount of multiplayer maps, with focus on 1v1 and 2v2 fast paced matches.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
