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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 27, 2015 11:49 PM |
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Edited by artu at 01:32, 28 Feb 2015.
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JollyJoker said:
artu said:
I wasnt aware the broader context was something like the Forge. I'm on the same page with you on that.
You people behave like children.
Let me repeat for the umptieth time that the Forge has been a brilliant idea. It symbolizes the penetration of technology into the paradize of "fantasy" - and at the same time the equality of magic and technology in a quality sense: superior weapon have no use, if they are rendered magically unusable. It's clash of worlds that would have given HoMM 3 something really great.
Now, before you start protesting, you should rather start thinking about why this "setting" would have been way beyong the limits of what you are comfortable with. This anxiety to keep an imaginary, alleged "purity" is something that speaks a couple of not so glorious volumes, if you ask me.
I dont like sci-fi and fantasy atmosphere and style (that's all they are in a computer game) mixed up in a franchise, I already happened to love as pure fantasy. It's too radical a change for an expansion, it doesnt expand, it transforms. This does not indicate I dislike everything if they are not pure or classical. Pink Floyd can experiment with the blues, I dont want to hear Pink Floyd when I listen to Muddy Waters though.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 28, 2015 12:17 AM |
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Is true there is a similarity between players disliking Ashan and players disliking Forge. Both raises a problem in the expected game experience: a change in the setting which would affect the environment in a way that would prevent him to fully immerse himself in a world he loves for each tiny subtle detail.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted February 28, 2015 12:31 AM |
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@Galaad: Right now you sound like being directly taken from some advertising campaign. 
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 28, 2015 02:44 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
artu said:
I wasnt aware the broader context was something like the Forge. I'm on the same page with you on that.
You people behave like children.
Let me repeat for the umptieth time that the Forge has been a brilliant idea. It symbolizes the penetration of technology into the paradize of "fantasy" - and at the same time the equality of magic and technology in a quality sense: superior weapon have no use, if they are rendered magically unusable. It's clash of worlds that would have given HoMM 3 something really great.
Now, before you start protesting, you should rather start thinking about why this "setting" would have been way beyong the limits of what you are comfortable with. This anxiety to keep an imaginary, alleged "purity" is something that speaks a couple of not so glorious volumes, if you ask me.
The one behaving like a child is you who cannot comprehend that some people don't like medieval fantasy mixed with sci-fi elements. Me included. I understand that as being one of the most terrible off-putting anachronism there is.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2015 03:38 AM |
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Warcraft and Sacred mixed sci-fi with fantasy amazingly. While i like the Forge i do think its aesthetic clashes hard with the rest of the game so i can see why would it annoy people (not enough to make death threats though e.e)
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 28, 2015 03:45 AM |
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2015 03:49 AM |
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Stevie said:
Sci-fi =/= Steampunk
In Warcraft the draenei, naaru and burning legion are sci-fi. In sacred the Seraphim, Demons and T-Energy related stuff are sci fi. But they were integrated in a way that they blended with fantasy easily. The forge wouldnt have
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 28, 2015 03:52 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 03:53, 28 Feb 2015.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2015 04:07 AM |
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the fact that you think that of blue aliens using high tech ships and the swarm of alien races dedicated to ravage planets using high tech kinda proves my point about it being well integrated.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 28, 2015 06:34 AM |
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Edited by artu at 06:36, 28 Feb 2015.
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Warcraft always had steampunk style tech involved in its world even before World of Warcraft. Zeppelins, scouting planes, submarines... They were indeed well integrated and they never felt like high-tech right in the middle of medieval fantasy.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2015 06:37 AM |
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im not mentioning steampunk. read
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 28, 2015 06:50 AM |
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Edited by artu at 06:54, 28 Feb 2015.
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I dont play World of Warcraft, if you link some pictures that might help. But guessing from the series' visual tradition and other comments, I am assuming that even if there are alien ships, their design and style is steampunkish.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 28, 2015 07:20 AM |
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GenyaArikado said:
the fact that you think that of blue aliens using high tech ships and the swarm of alien races dedicated to ravage planets using high tech kinda proves my point about it being well integrated.
Actually I'm with Stevie on this one. A technologically advanced civilisation does not not necessarily many it is Sci-fi. Look at Etherlords. Synthets are a machinery based faction full of robots, but I would still call the game fantasy rather then sci-fi.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2015 07:53 AM |
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a technologically advanced race of spaceships travelling aliens with lasers generally does though.
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted February 28, 2015 08:03 AM |
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I think "sci-fi" in fantasy is all well and good when applied in a way that feels like it makes sense in context. Flying mechanical dragonflies in an oriental martial arts setting (Jade Empire)? Don't blink an eye. Mechanical anubises linked to the blue gloop that runs everything (Sacred)? Makes sense, I guess. Cyborg goblins and tank nagas in a world where "demon" invaders are actually aliens but at least look and act like straightforward demons? Uuuuuuuhhhhhh...
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 28, 2015 08:08 AM |
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I image searched "Dranenei Spaceship" and found stuff like this:
This is hardly the post-industrial, high-tech design of the Forge or something similar, is it. Does the beams come from crystals? It's like a medieval civilization of another planet who had somehow discovered space travel through magic. The visual design and atmosphere is the key here, not the literary, generic technicalities between sci-fi and fantasy.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted February 28, 2015 09:07 AM |
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artu said:
I image searched "Dranenei Spaceship" and found stuff like this:
/img/
This is hardly the post-industrial, high-tech design of the Forge or something similar, is it. Does the beams come from crystals? It's like a medieval civilization of another planet who had somehow discovered space travel through magic. The visual design and atmosphere is the key here, not the literary, generic technicalities between sci-fi and fantasy.
Yes. Dranei in WoW are medieval civilization from another planet, who uses magic. They are wierd tho, and very alien to the rest of WoW. In fact, I almost feel like in WoW you get situation where "technology is there, but they don't know how to use it". But that's nother discussion. You are right, that zeppelins and rifleman, and golin robots are steampunkish. They always were, in original warcraft.
If we were to have advanced technology or aliens in HoMM game I'm not convinced neither by steampunk nor the high-tech thing... or maybe Idk what to call this, but this is what I mean:
It's hard to to find good pictures to capture the atmosphere, so I recomend you to watch an episode or two on youtube. Here.
It's classic sword & sorcery, heavily mixed with hi-tech. Idk how to call that genre, but it's almost gone in today's times. If HoMM would go into sci-fi, imo this is the direction they could go towards.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted February 28, 2015 09:12 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
You people behave like children.
Let me repeat for the umptieth time that the Forge has been a brilliant idea.
If not for the whole "borg" approach.
Taking existing units and recycle them makes for lazy design.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted February 28, 2015 09:14 AM |
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Kimarous said:
I think "sci-fi" in fantasy is all well and good when applied in a way that feels like it makes sense in context. Flying mechanical dragonflies in an oriental martial arts setting (Jade Empire)? Don't blink an eye. Mechanical anubises linked to the blue gloop that runs everything (Sacred)? Makes sense, I guess. Cyborg goblins and tank nagas in a world where "demon" invaders are actually aliens but at least look and act like straightforward demons? Uuuuuuuhhhhhh...
It makes sense in context.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 28, 2015 09:18 AM |
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GenyaArikado said:
a technologically advanced race of spaceships travelling aliens with lasers generally does though.
Still not necessarily. Again Etherlords has something very similar but is far from Sci-fi. Another example could be Mutant Chronicles. This WH 40k rip-off is set in distant future of our solar system with the nearest planets colonized. Earth itself is abandoned. One of the factions is technocratic cyborg creating organization but still It is far from Sci-fi. You have a magic art wielding order focused on mankind preservation and god-like entities from other worlds, alien to out own, who strieve to gain contrle over our worlds. Its more on the lines of Techno-fantasy. I wouldn't even dare to call Star-wars Sci-fi. It is close to fantasy with lasers. But Sci-fi is more then Fantasy with lasers. It is more then just a setting in the future.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
