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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted March 03, 2015 05:11 PM |
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@Stevie: we have to see the skill system in order to determine whether casting a spell would be the same as in Heroes VI. Who knows, maybe there will be a skill that would give you an additional turn after casting a spell? Time will tell.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 03, 2015 05:13 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
Time will tell.
If think with the years we all learned is not a harm trying to anticipate with Ubisoft.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 05:14 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 17:18, 03 Mar 2015.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 03, 2015 05:27 PM |
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Streamlining the Magic System
JollyJoker said:
I've always a lot of concerns regarding magic, and HoMM 7 is no exception, the main reason being the fact that 7 schools are difficult to implement in a reasonable, sensible and interesting way. One obvious disadvantage is, that obviously, with 7 schools and spell-manipulating abilities schools can't have that many spells to begin with.
One problem with 7 schools is - they don't STACK. The first magic school will give you lot, but the second will give you less already, since the main purpose of these skills is getting and improving ACTIVE abilities (called spells). You can REASONABLY pick only a low number of school - 2 would be my guess -, and having 7 skills of which you can pick generally only 2 is VERY awkward and has some consequences.
Between skillwheels, mage guilds and difference between hero types there is a lot of room for problems.
This is a subject that has been weighing on my mind these days. Lore and theme are good and all but spells have to be implemented in a reasonable way that keeps things fun. I don't see how this is possible with the amount of specialization that the H7 system requires, not when we are dealing with 7 magic schools. A might hero can simply stack on passive bonuses and he's good to go but a magic hero's strength depends on picking the right magic skills to complement the random spells that he gets. His strategies, tactics and build will largely depend on the mage guild and similar adventure locations. I love the replayability that comes from spell randomness but this is a liability when it comes to skill planning. A magic hero will have to improvise and pray that his skill choices do not fail him.
For argument's sake, let's assume that H7 skill system is similar to that of H5, with 7 magic skills featuring a number of general as well as unique abilities. And let us also assume that a magic hero has access to most of them. With limited general magic skills - like sorcery and enlightenment - and limited access to might skills, you have to mostly invest in the magic school(s) of your choice. And if the game features extensive specialization like H5 did, getting late the magic skill you want can mess you up even if you know what spells you will get in your mage guild. Which seems likely with 5-6 magic skills being randomly offered on level ups. Which one do you pick and how can you be sure you'll get the right spells? You can make towns biased towards a certain element or two but what about the rest? In H5 it was very rare that you would pick a school outside the town's primary ones simply because you could not count on getting an acceptable combination or number of spells from the rest. Despite having 4 magic schools, most hero classes were locked to one single school they favoured, with few exceptions. Perhaps H7 will have a way to specialize in a specific element of your choice which would give some freedom but that wouldn't change much. Just how many magic schools would you pick out of those 5-6 and still have a good build? That's 3 levels per magic school plus whatever specialized perks while being able to cast only one spell per turn.
On the other hand I miss the H3 days. No mass abilities or general advanced abilities that are arbitrarily tied to a particular basic ability that you might or not want. No towns where you pick the same school in almost all games and the ability to pick more than one school with a limited amount of levels. I kind of liked that simplicity. Sure, there were overpowered and underpowered schools but that is a matter of balancing.
I liked the elemental theme and in that respect I do not mind the concept of 6 elements and prime magic. I do like the idea of sanctuary focusing on water magic as opposed to light(buffs) and destructive magic. It gives the faction character. It would be even better if it had its own unique sanctuary-themed school but doing so for every single faction would be costly. Instead.. what if we kept the 7 schools and divided magic skills according to their type? Destructive, summoning, light and dark. Any magic hero would be able to specialize in any of those types but an inferno destructive hero would be different from a sanctuary one due to different school availability and different unique abilities. A destructive necromancer could have cold death, a destructive knight fiery wrath and a destructive runpriest ignite for instance. If higher tier spells could be accessed by higher mastery of the specific type, a summoner would undoubtedly find useful spells regardless of the magic schools that appeared in his guild. He would not have to worry about getting the right magic schools but instead make a choice based on the gameplay he is most comfortable with. Naturally, class restrictions could still apply so that an inferno hero might not be able to use icebolt despite being proficient with destructive. Or at least, have a harder time finding ice spells in his town.
Thoughts?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted March 03, 2015 05:39 PM |
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Stevie said:
Yea, I don't know. But JJ usually speaks from knowledge so what he says might turn out to actually be the case.
Edit: Oh, btw, Tales of the Ten Years War part 8
We got close to Ivan campaign in H7.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 06:07 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 18:07, 03 Mar 2015.
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Where's Raelag tho? I thought he would be mentioned.
The entry however was really great, I like Seamus' personality. He's full of trickery but on the other hand his human weaknesses show with his daughter. In spite of that I think he would've made a great king, and if Ivan would realize that he'd have even less motives to oppose him.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 06:18 PM |
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Been writing too much about this already.
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Micutz
Hired Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 06:25 PM |
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I think that the narrative of these stories is better than the narrative of Heroes 6.
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted March 03, 2015 06:28 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Could you tell us more about the development of this dlc  I want to know if I should become a fortune-teller 
I began working on the story that would eventually become the Danse Macabre DLC in 2010 (the oldest document I could unearth is dated 30th August 2010).
Back then it was called "Rise of Sandro" and taking place much closer to the events of Clash of Heroes. It was centered on Sandro's revenge against the rest of the Necromancers and the Holy Empire, and was inspired by the Count of Monte Cristo. The Void was not yet part of the equation.
At some point I also toyed with the idea of implying that Heroes II The Price of Loyalty was actually taking place on Ashan. Ibn Fadlan (the bad guy of PoL) would have been Sandro's rival, and Viscount Kraeger would have been a noble from the Wolf Duchy... I remember discussing this idea with Cepheus at some point  But I eventually decided against it as it would have been a bit far-fetched.
Flash-forward to November 2011. The idea of making a Sandro DLC for Heroes VI is becoming serious. I have a document dated November 11th that is very close to the final story of the DLC. Sandro is already planning to kill some Dragon Gods, but the Void is not yet part of the story.
A few days later we are contacted by Bluebyte. They are starting to work on what will eventually become Heroes Online and want to use the Void as their main antagonist. Erwan suggests we connect that with my Sandro plot. It all clicks together -- Sandro's banishment, why he looks like he does, his vengeance against creation itself -- and Danse Macabre becomes a sort of "prologue" to the upcoming Void arc.
By December 8th 2011, all my documents about Danse Macabre mention the Void plot, and I write the story of Sandro's life that all writers can use as a reference in their projects, from his birth to his death (maybe) a few years before H5.
At some point (can't remember exactly when), the writer of Duel of Champions decides to get on the Void train and use it as well. The Void becomes a pretty big arc in all Might & Magic games and Sandro becomes much bigger in Ashan than I had originally planned.
That's the story of Sandro's return, in a nutshell
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 03, 2015 06:31 PM |
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How about giving all Magic heroes the ability to cast a second, low level (1-2) spell per turn. That could make up for the passive bonuses Might heroes usually have, and would reward having several Magic Schools (coz of variety).
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 03, 2015 06:35 PM |
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Thanks for the info Marzhin, really appreciated!
Can you share with us Sandro's full story (from his birth to his death)?
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted March 03, 2015 06:43 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
Can you share with us Sandro's full story (from his birth to his death)?
Too many spoilers 
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 03, 2015 06:52 PM |
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Marzhin said:
Too many spoilers
 But we love spoilers...
P.S.: I'm wondering if we see "another" tales of 10-year war, but from Seamus' point of view. Would've been good to hear both sides. I doubt Ivan really is as good as he's described...
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted March 03, 2015 06:59 PM |
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Giving bread to one part of kingdom, while slaughtering this who don't accept him becoming emperor.
Preet good ruler i must say.
Ivan all day everyday.
Griffin Eternal!
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 03, 2015 07:06 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
P.S.: I'm wondering if we see "another" tales of 10-year war, but from Seamus' point of view. Would've been good to hear both sides. I doubt Ivan really is as good as he's described...
Seamus secret alliance with the Naga and some Dwarf rebels = Expansion. Shhhhh.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 03, 2015 07:27 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Sandro400 said:
P.S.: I'm wondering if we see "another" tales of 10-year war, but from Seamus' point of view. Would've been good to hear both sides. I doubt Ivan really is as good as he's described...
Seamus secret alliance with the Naga and some Dwarf rebels = Expansion. Shhhhh.
#TheDream
PS: The writing is great and it really helps to build up some hype for the campaign, but Ivan is portraited waaay too good.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted March 03, 2015 07:39 PM |
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Quote:
Flash-forward to November 2011(...)but the Void is not yet part of the story.
So I still came with the idea of Sandro+Void at least 2 months earlier. Haha  Crazy stuff, as most of that hadn't been released at least 5 months after I made that faction, but I still don't believe that dark elves and necro spiders are a coincidence
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted March 03, 2015 07:39 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
PS: The writing is great and it really helps to build up some hype for the campaign, but Ivan is portraited waaay too good.
Exactly. Marzhin, please, make Ivan do something not oh so good, as he is used to be described. Make him involved in some unclear sexual relationship because being a notorious womanizer is by far his greatest fault.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 03, 2015 08:20 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Seamus secret alliance with the Naga and some Dwarf rebels = Expansion. Shhhhh.
I wish for this to be true!
I don't know if this was posted before, but while translating this part of the Tales I decided to do some name research (was intrigued by what "na Feidh" means, turns out to be "of Stag"). It just so happens that Seamus' name may mean "substitute"... And after this entry describing how he changed after civil war I'm starting to really consider that Seamus is being just a puppet Emperor...
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 08:39 PM |
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Make him share a steamy romance with Nolwenn as she progressively becomes a victim of the feud between him and her father. Then, during the final confrontation between Ivan and Seamus, she would suffer a tragic death. On her deathbed she would confess to Ivan in tears and gushing out blood that she bore his child. As Ivan begins to lose himself in desperation, she would comfort him, saying that the people of the Empire need his strong rule, and that she believes from the bottom of her heart that one day they would meet again. Oh, the drama...
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
