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ninjata12
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 15, 2015 04:46 PM |
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Well, to make something helpful and be of some help to the developers to make the game good, we can start a new topic about the balancing. Most of the decisions about the game are already made and the only thing we can change now is what skills the heroes will start with and how powerfull are the spells, abilities, artifacts and so on.
We all have our personal preferences about how the game should be. And even if we make Heroes 7 the absolutely perfect Heroes game that can exist, after 5 years we will want to try something new, maybe we would want to try to play with hero classes, maybe we would like to have a spider in Necropolis lineup. All I'm saying is this - games are like sex. If your girlfriend is super sexy, beautiful and so on, after 5 years you will want to try something new, even if it's worse than what you have.
So let's just enjoy this version of Heroes, let's try to make it playable, let's try to balance well the skills and the abilities and have some great 2-3-4 years of multiplayer battles. And after we get bored, then we will have Heroes 8, which will be different, maybe no spiders and no hero classes. But for now - let's make H7 playable and enjoy it for the next couple of years. We can do this by helping with the balance, which is probably the most important thing right now for Heroes 7...
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MiniaAr
Hired Hero
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posted May 15, 2015 05:05 PM |
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Edited by MiniaAr at 17:07, 15 May 2015.
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ninjata12 said:
Well, to make something helpful and be of some help to the developers to make the game good, we can start a new topic about the balancing. Most of the decisions about the game are already made and the only thing we can change now is what skills the heroes will start with and how powerfull are the spells, abilities, artifacts and so on.
We all have our personal preferences about how the game should be. And even if we make Heroes 7 the absolutely perfect Heroes game that can exist, after 5 years we will want to try something new, maybe we would want to try to play with hero classes, maybe we would like to have a spider in Necropolis lineup. All I'm saying is this - games are like sex. If your girlfriend is super sexy, beautiful and so on, after 5 years you will want to try something new, even if it's worse than what you have.
So let's just enjoy this version of Heroes, let's try to make it playable, let's try to balance well the skills and the abilities and have some great 2-3-4 years of multiplayer battles. And after we get bored, then we will have Heroes 8, which will be different, maybe no spiders and no hero classes. But for now - let's make H7 playable and enjoy it for the next couple of years. We can do this by helping with the balance, which is probably the most important thing right now for Heroes 7...
Some people would disagree about the girlfriend part though. Even if you want something new, you might also decide that it's not worth losing what you already have, even after 5 years.  (I'm talking about Heroes of course )
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 15, 2015 05:20 PM |
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properkheldar said:
Never understood the "Because the platform is flawed I will utilize this and behave like a mad person to prove a point"-argument. Either you behave or you dont. Its a choice.
Na-a, go invest yourself down SC then we speak.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 15, 2015 05:23 PM |
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ninjata12 said:
So let's just enjoy this version of Heroes, let's try to make it playable, let's try to balance well the skills and the abilities and have some great 2-3-4 years of multiplayer battles. And after we get bored, then we will have Heroes 8, which will be different, maybe no spiders and no hero classes. But for now - let's make H7 playable and enjoy it for the next couple of years. We can do this by helping with the balance, which is probably the most important thing right now for Heroes 7...
No, no no no no no NO! We do not accept h7 just because "it's the new heroes". That's just blindly following hype without thinking anything through. You are telling me, that i should just shut up and buy this no matter what i think? and even if you're not saying that, you saying i should just accept and buy this if it's something i can't support from either a product or art standpoint?
HELL NO!
I am not gonna stand idly by while you and these other "apologetics" just disrespect the game, its creators, the gaming medium and art as a whole. I critique because i want and believe i can get something better. Because i think the developers have the ability to give me something better. I respect them. I respect them enough to believe they can do great things. People who don't want H7 to be criticized are showing an extreme lack of such respect. Do you really not think they can do better? Are you satisfied with not getting the best possible thing the developers can make? It certainly sounds like it and that is making me so very, very sad. You're limiting not only the game, but yourselves. Imagine what you could help create if you just said "no" to half-measures and empty promises (i'm looking at you, syndicate "female protagonist" BS  ). Because that's what you endorse by just accepting whatever snow comes your way. And i believe, nay know, that you want and deserve something better, even if it doesn't seem obtainable. It is obtainable, you just need to work a little for it.
I will not just shut up and take whatever i get. All you out there thinking i should, well you can just go shove it somewhere.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted May 15, 2015 05:26 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 17:30, 15 May 2015.
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ninjata12 said:
We all have our personal preferences about how the game should be. And even if we make Heroes 7 the absolutely perfect Heroes game that can exist, after 5 years we will want to try something new, maybe we would want to try to play with hero classes, maybe we would like to have a spider in Necropolis lineup. All I'm saying is this - games are like sex. If your girlfriend is super sexy, beautiful and so on, after 5 years you will want to try something new, even if it's worse than what you have.
I must agree with the first sentence. There is the option of the game feature options in H7, but I doubt devs will do much work in that. But it does sound appealing to both sides, the majority and the minority.
However, I disagree with the other sentences. You got tons and tons of fans that still play H3 and "re-vitalize" it with mods.
If they want to make a new classic, even better than H3, it would be extremely hard, considering how much work they need to invest, money to pay the devs, new ideas to ponder and implement (yet still make it decent and interesting), as well as making it playable for new and old generations. Considering all these requirements, I doubt Ubi would even do half of these. They can, but they don't want to.
kiryu133 said:
No, no no no no no NO! We do not accept h7 just because "it's the new heroes". That's just blindly following hype without thinking anything through. You are telling me, that i should just shut up and buy this no matter what i think? and even if you're not saying that, you saying i should just accept and buy this if it's something i can't support from either a product or art standpoint?
HELL NO!
I am not gonna stand idly by while you and these other "apologetics" just disrespect the game, its creators, the gaming medium and art as a whole. I critique because i want and believe i can get something better. Because i think the developers have the ability to give me something better. I respect them. I respect them enough to believe they can do great things. People who don't want H7 to be criticized are showing an extreme lack of such respect. Do you really not think they can do better? Are you satisfied with not getting the best possible thing the developers can make? It certainly sounds like it and that is making me so very, very sad. You're limiting not only the game, but yourselves. Imagine what you could help create if you just said "no" to half-measures and empty promises (i'm looking at you, syndicate "female protagonist" BS ). Because that's what you endorse by just accepting whatever snow comes your way. And i believe, nay know, that you want and deserve something better, even if it doesn't seem obtainable. It is obtainable, you just need to work a little for it.
I will not just shut up and take whatever i get. All you out there thinking i should, well you can just go shove it somewhere.
These statements are approved (by me, at least). They have to take ideas, fix them and improve them to get the best out of it. But as stated earlier, doubt they want to do that.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted May 15, 2015 05:45 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Imagine what you could help create if you just said "no" to half-measures and empty promises (i'm looking at you, syndicate "female protagonist" BS ).
What do you mean by that?
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ninjata12
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 15, 2015 05:50 PM |
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Ok, but we have the game almost finished now. You can keep crying all you want, but you will not change anything.
The only good thing about H7 that we can do now is try to help them with the balance. Because, even the haters agree that H7 is not so bad. One spider and 2 bad townscreens cannot ruin a game. I like the skill wheel and think it will be fun to try different strategies with different hero classes. So the game has potential.
And if you want to cry and complain, at least be of some help and complain about the balance of the game, at least we can change that...
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 15, 2015 05:54 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
kiryu133 said:
Imagine what you could help create if you just said "no" to half-measures and empty promises (i'm looking at you, syndicate "female protagonist" BS ).
What do you mean by that?
about what? syndicate half-assing it's "female protagonist" or saying no to half-measures?
about syndicates female bit, first of all it's obvious pandering to people who got outraged about that whole ordeal in unity (rightfully so, i mean damn they handled that with about as much grace as my at a sushi buffé) without realizing why we were outraged to begin with. It's pandering, actual pandering. If they wanted to actually prove something they'd make the main character a woman or tell us they didn't want to to that. I'd still criticize the snow out of the decision but it would be a lot more sincere and admirable than this. They totally expect to be praised for it too 
If it's about half-measures, well...
Not accepting them will force publishers to not do half-measures like the above example.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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properkheldar
Famous Hero
Keeper of books
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posted May 15, 2015 05:55 PM |
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Galaad said:
Na-a, go invest yourself down SC then we speak.
I have, from the start.
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"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted May 15, 2015 05:56 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 18:00, 15 May 2015.
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https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/skills-dark-earth-magic
More spells... although should be more.
ninjata12 said:
Ok, but we have the game almost finished now. You can keep crying all you want, but you will not change anything.
The only good thing about H7 that we can do now is try to help them with the balance. Because, even the haters agree that H7 is not so bad. One spider and 2 bad townscreens cannot ruin a game. I like the skill wheel and think it will be fun to try different strategies with different hero classes. So the game has potential.
And if you want to cry and complain, at least be of some help and complain about the balance of the game, at least we can change that...
I still stand by that person. Devs promised a classical Heroes game and it will be "the best" one yet. We can see it is an exaggeration.
Besides, it is not just what you claim: townscreens and spiders. It is much more to it. Since the spell article arrived today, I'll be blunt: the game needs MORE spells. As well as fixing other things. Like bugs, which will be plenty of. Or the fact we have six factions. This would be understandable... if we are living 10 years in the past.
So no, if it would have *real* potential, things would've been entirely different. And the majority of the fanbase would've felt that.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted May 15, 2015 06:08 PM |
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@kiryu133:
I still don't understand. What is the problem in game? Boob plates, Justicars, Imani? Could you make it more precise, please?
Regarding Spells - what happened to. Hypnosis? Lack of it in Dark Magic is something quite surprising. Otherwise everything is rather okay, but many skills need serious balance, like Shadow of Dread?
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted May 15, 2015 06:17 PM |
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Some interesting spells there. Shadow Cloak, Malassa's and Sylvana's spells, Entangled taking one part of slow. And some of the enhanced effects are nice too.
Regardless of what people say I like the magi in H7 so far.
And some bold moves not forcing old/traditional but Under/overpowered spells into the roster.
No Hypnotize/puppet master, No Vampirism, No Summon elementals. This alone might make the game fresh.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted May 15, 2015 06:18 PM |
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Maybe. But it still feels there aren't too many spells, yet too many spell schools.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 15, 2015 06:23 PM |
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to be honest, I always thought that any people who would drag down a discussion down to the low level of branding their perceived opponents as "haters" at all probably don't really have much of substance to say themselves in the first place, but that's just me lol
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted May 15, 2015 06:23 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Maybe. But it still feels there aren't too many spells, yet too many spell schools.
There are more then enought spells in the game, More then in H5 or H6. 21 are accesable to all, 8x5 are linked to skills (warcries included) plus there are likely more neutral spells like TP. There is approx 72 active abilities in the game, not counting thier advanced/enhanced forms.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 15, 2015 06:30 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
@kiryu133:
I still don't understand. What is the problem in game? Boob plates, Justicars, Imani? Could you make it more precise, please?
oh, you meant in H7!
well, Half-assing the skill system (particularly the random part) is a big one for people and for me the focus on making it non-random. Otherwise for me what really matter are the town screens, necropolis spikes and overblown motives, boobplates, borderline racist centaur and so on. Only the centaur and lack of female vampire (DAMN YOU, COMMUNITY!) are deal breakers for me though not half-assed per se. The rest are very half-assed things though not things that would stop me from buying the game necessarily.
However, i wasn't really talking about H7 specifically in my little rant there, but rather the mindset that we should accept half-measure just because. That's a terrible way to think and is, as far as i'm concerned, what is destroying the industry. hope that helped
TL;DR:
It's not about what's half-assed in H7 per se, but rather the attitude towards accepting half-measures in games (including H7) that bother me.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted May 15, 2015 06:32 PM |
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Quote:
Skills: Dark & Earth Magic
Man some of those spells are gamebreaking. Especially the adventure map spells.
All in all these are pretty good(if inbalanced as hell) compared to the ones we got before. Although I'm a bit worried that some of the spells have hardwired duration and are not affected by spellpower.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 15, 2015 06:36 PM |
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted May 15, 2015 06:37 PM |
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@kiryu133:
Thank you. I also agree with the notion that half-measures shouldn't be accepted, therefore I believe spell number should be increased. 8 per school is just not enough.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 15, 2015 06:38 PM |
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Earth not having Implosion is a travesty. A TRAVESTY!
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
