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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 17, 2015 12:55 AM |
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Kimarous said:
How is a ranged Treant champion any worse than a ranged Titan or Cyclops?
Probably because we never saw a treant (aside CoH) to use a ranged attack. Not only that, treants are reserved to be a defensive rather than offensive unit, especially with those abilities.
Well, something similar to a plant shooting is waspwort from H4 (not sure if it is a plant or something based off it). But look, that one is purely offensive and weakens enemies. Treant just stands ground and defends others.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 17, 2015 01:23 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 01:50, 17 Jul 2015.
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Kimarous said:
Stevie said:
How in the world is treant being a shooter a good thing? You give a TANK a ranged attack?! That thing is supposed to MOVE on the battlefield and take up space and entangle snow and then get healed by that freaking dryad!
No, it's absolutely retarded.
Here's how I see it:
1) Choosing between "walking tank" and "walking tank" is absolutely stupid. Having one of them ranged? Now there's an actual difference.
2) The "dryad heal" bit makes as much sense as the squishy ranged cabirs leaving the safety of the back lines to run out and repair gargoyles and golems.
3) It can't do anything in its "tank" mode over than be a static barrier. Can't attack, can't move, nothing. Yeah, you COULD use it that way if you're pressed for cover, but as a main mode of operation? THAT is retarded.
1. Choosing between a Crowd Control Tank and an AOE Damage Dealer is worlds apart in gameplay. So no, I won't fall for your straw man there, son. And there is a good reason why Tanks don't have a primary range attack - because they have to be physically in melee range of the target for their role to be efficient. That is simply basic knowledge which apparently escapes you.
2. So you say that an immobile range squishy core leaving the safety of the back lines to repair gargoyles and golems makes as much sense as a mobile flying melee tanky core healing a treant which immobilizes enemies? On what planet?
3. It's an entangling tank and as long as it accomplishes that role there is nothing you can fault it for. It does attack and it does move. Being a tank as a "main mode of operation" is not retarded in the slightest, in fact it's standard practice in a lot of games like mobas, rpgs and mmos, even rts and tbs, so jokes on you buddy.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted July 17, 2015 01:55 AM |
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Stevie said:
Kimarous said:
Stevie said:
How in the world is treant being a shooter a good thing? You give a TANK a ranged attack?! That thing is supposed to MOVE on the battlefield and take up space and entangle snow and then get healed by that freaking dryad!
No, it's absolutely retarded.
Here's how I see it:
1) Choosing between "walking tank" and "walking tank" is absolutely stupid. Having one of them ranged? Now there's an actual difference.
2) The "dryad heal" bit makes as much sense as the squishy ranged cabirs leaving the safety of the back lines to run out and repair gargoyles and golems.
3) It can't do anything in its "tank" mode over than be a static barrier. Can't attack, can't move, nothing. Yeah, you COULD use it that way if you're pressed for cover, but as a main mode of operation? THAT is retarded.
1. Choosing between a Crowd Control Tank and an AOE Damage Dealer is worlds apart in gameplay. So no, I won't fall for your straw man there, son. And there is a good reason why Tanks don't have a primary range attack - because they have to be physically in melee range of the target for their role to be efficient. That is simply basic knowledge which apparently escapes you.
2. So you say that an immobile range squishy core leaving the safety of the back lines to repair gargoyles and golems makes as much sense as a mobile flying melee tanky core healing a treant which immobilizes enemyes? On what planet?
3. It's an entangling tank and as long as it accomplishes that role there is nothing you can fault it for. It does attack and it does move. Being a tank as a "main mode of operation" is not retarded in the slightest, in fact it's standard practice in a lot of games like mobas, rpgs and mmos, even rts and tbs, so jokes on you buddy.
Look, can we tone down on the insults? Between using terms like "retarded" (which I only used in counterpoint) and your overall condescending tone, you're coming across as needlessly hostile.
I'm the kind of person who views "hardy, ranged, supportive, and readily supportable" as "a well-rounded character I want to use." Heck, it's the kind of character I like to play in many games: a solo tank with ranged capability who doesn't need a lot of support but can easily be supported if needed. Maybe you don't think that's well-suited for a Heroes game, but I identify with it greatly and appreciate it.
So excuse me when I find you calling that notion "retarded" to be needless bullying on your part.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 17, 2015 03:07 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 03:09, 17 Jul 2015.
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted July 17, 2015 04:45 AM |
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I accept the apology and, as I do not wish to continue with this topic, will conclude this exchange on an "agree to disagree" note.
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted July 17, 2015 07:14 AM |
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Well... by default tank is range unit:
Ba Dum Tss! 
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 17, 2015 07:28 AM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 08:22, 17 Jul 2015.
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Say what you want if-it's-not-heroes3-it's-garbage cultists, but the game lookd awesome! Sylvan truly shines and I just can't wait for the gameplay! Treant is a shooter, yay!! So excited and looking to have fun with it! Should I walk? Should I entangle? Should I wall? Should I shoot? Versatility anyone? Oops I forgot, it's not heroes 3.. More for me then
In other words stop being so dramatic people, making everything seem like a disaster! It's almost funny and graphical tho
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 17, 2015 08:05 AM |
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For me the most important thing of the video is that sun deer, although looking good, indeed have an absolutely retarded attack. The lucky strike looks okayish, but it seems like he attacks with his nose instead of antlers. The normal attack is really stupid. Especially because there is no effect of knocking up units or something similar, which is what he seems to be doing.
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Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!
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alexine
Known Hero
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posted July 17, 2015 09:44 AM |
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We´re beautiful like diamonds in the sky ...
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 17, 2015 09:49 AM |
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Kimarous said:
How is a ranged Treant champion any worse than a ranged Titan or Cyclops?
because there are already too many ranged champions. Besides, the entangling ability makes the treant vastly different from the dragon to begin with. It's simply such a simple yet fantastic ability when on a melee creature. On ranged creature (that's also supposed to be a tank)? it's just going to be either completely broken, useless or not there at all. all terrible outcomes.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 17, 2015 09:57 AM |
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kiryu133 said:
Kimarous said:
How is a ranged Treant champion any worse than a ranged Titan or Cyclops?
because there are already too many ranged champions. Besides, the entangling ability makes the treant vastly different from the dragon to begin with. It's simply such a simple yet fantastic ability when on a melee creature. On ranged creature (that's also supposed to be a tank)? it's just going to be either completely broken, useless or not there at all. all terrible outcomes.
Isn't the entangling ability an activated one?
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 17, 2015 10:13 AM |
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ugh 
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted July 17, 2015 10:26 AM |
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Edited by Maurice at 10:27, 17 Jul 2015.
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MiniaAr
Hired Hero
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posted July 17, 2015 10:29 AM |
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Yeah Treant Champion shooting is awful. Elite Treant would have been acceptable/tolerable, and walking green dragon and flying Phoenix would have made great champions.
Also, Unicorn > Deer that attacks with its nose. 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted July 17, 2015 10:38 AM |
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MiniaAr said:
Yeah Treant Champion shooting is awful.
I see people mentioning this, but it seems I have missed a link somewhere to a video or something. Where is the info that Treant Champions are shooters?
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted July 17, 2015 10:55 AM |
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With a battle cry of “Ashan!”,.....
Of course  . That must be how Erwan wakes up every day.
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Minastir
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 17, 2015 10:58 AM |
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Maurice said:
MiniaAr said:
Yeah Treant Champion shooting is awful.
I see people mentioning this, but it seems I have missed a link somewhere to a video or something. Where is the info that Treant Champions are shooters?
You can see that he is a shooter in this video
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted July 17, 2015 10:59 AM |
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Dies_Irae said:
With a battle cry of “Ashan!”,.....
I cringed so hard when I read that.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 17, 2015 10:59 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 11:00, 17 Jul 2015.
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Minastir said:
Naziurice said:
MiniaAr said:
Yeah Treant Champion shooting is awful.
I see people mentioning this, but it seems I have missed a link somewhere to a video or something. Where is the info that Treant Champions are shooters?
You can see that he is a shooter in this video
Furthermore, that lady dev confirms it too if I understood that right.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 17, 2015 11:03 AM |
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To me the issue with shooting Treants is that it takes away what made that unit unique. A cheap, beefy walker who would strangle any units he attacked, preventing them from attacking other targets. It's what made them unique and distinctive in H3 & H5. Making them shooters (through an active ability?) is meh.
Besides, I think the old concept would work well in combination with Nature's Revenge - Treants get one enemy in place, rest of the army gang up on that stack dealing massive damage.
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