Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 30, 2014 01:22 PM
You make too many assumptions
I prefer to leave Bosses encounters as rare and special as possible, so you get excited in preparation to when you'll face that boss again. If heroes start getting them (not on every map, but still) it loses it's magic, doesn't it?
Not to mention bosses battles are probably scripted, so it'd be difficult to add them to hero lineup.
Not to mention Grail already gives big bonuses, if on top of that gives you a powerhouse creature it's just too much.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 30, 2014 01:24 PM
Stevie said:I'd like to have dragons as bosses in faction lineups, unlockable by Grail Building: 4 Core, 3 Elite, 2 Champion, 1 Boss.
No no no and no.
Grail building is something that hardly ever comes in play. Having a creature that requires grail = creature that almost never comes in play = pointless. Same reason why I'm strongly against the boss concept and against neutrals in general, although a special recruitable neutral could work.
I know some people disliked the dragons of H5, but I never minded, as long as there's sufficient difference between the dragons and the way they play out in game I'm cool with having many factions having some sort of dragon as champion. With 2 champions in H7 there even seems to be much less of a problem for those who found dragons to take up too much space in H5.
Implementation implementation implementation and implementation.
The whole idea of dragons as bosses is PRECISELY so you will see them rarely. But remember that we got Tears of Asha with Ubisoft, and those could be more than one. So much so that you could set them to be so abundant that each town might get one. It all comes down to implementation. If you don't like them coming with Tears, then make them outside dwellings, or get them both. Or something else, that's not the issue, the issue is that dragons being on par with a Titan construct or a Cyclops is ridiculous.
If you really want to see towns produce 2 dragons a week the be my guest. But I really dislike seeing towns as dragon factories. How the hell does that happen, have you ever tried imagining? Dragons growing in towns - hilarious.
Yea, dragons aren't actually the most powerful and highly magical mythical beings. It's not like we even have dragons as Gods and the ultimate explanation for the universe's existence.
Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 30, 2014 02:38 PM
Stevie said:Yea, dragons aren't actually the most powerful and highly magical mythical beings.
Stevie, you seem to forget that HoM&M is all about confronting many, varied mythical beings, and the game must have certain limits (in creature stats & abilities) to keep the game fair
Stevie said:It's not like we even have dragons as Gods and the ultimate explanation for the universe's existence.
That doesn't necessarily means that each single dragon has to be stronger than any other being in Ashan.
Lastly, it makes no sense to have Black, Green and whatever dragon type as bosses, since bosses are single unit-stack. A special dragon that comes as the 'avatar/son of' *insert Dragon God here* sure, but the generic dragons? no way.
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You seem awfully please with the implementation of dragons so far in the games. With that kind of thinking we will have Swordbearers and Black Dragons both as Champion units. So long for the mythical status of creatures.
And I was talking about Dragons as Boss TIER creatures, not as just 1 Dragon stacks.
I'm not happy at all with how dragons are portrayed in the lore yet we see a different reality in the game. There's nothing mythical with them if you can mass produce them the same way like every other unit. There should be SOME kinds of special requirements that would make them "feel" mythical. Right now they are just just common, standard town creatures.
Stevie said:There's nothing mythical with them if you can mass produce them the same way like every other unit.
Well, it's a matter of perspective. You can always think about a unit not as a stack, but as a single, yet strong unit Armies in Heroes were always a group of monsters/humanoids with some kind of strange number alongside of them
lore-wise (and that's my issue, except not being very original) i would take dragons AFTER heroes V, WHEN they somehow explain that dragon gods fell from grace or gone on a trip and left their avatars or smth behind.
for this game i would not want to see a single dragon because i am excited to see what else is there instead of dragons,gameplay-wise. and i would like to learn about a creature that i already don't know about.
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Stevie said:Yea, dragons aren't actually the most powerful and highly magical mythical beings. It's not like we even have dragons as Gods and the ultimate explanation for the universe's existence.
well, that's just the greek mythology, but titans are somehow gods as well.
Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 30, 2014 03:50 PM
Stevie said:You seem awfully please with the implementation of dragons so far in the games.
I'm overall pleased with the implementation in previous games, yes. Although H2 was probably the best in this regard, with only other creature matching Dragons despite having 6 factions
Stevie said:With that kind of thinking we will have Swordbearers and Black Dragons both as Champion units. So long for the mythical status of creatures.
You really like to wrongly assume all the time, don't you?
I mentioned before that I see Swordbearers as a cheap not that expensive, with higher growth champion. A human that is very experienced in combat and has reached a level that normally humans do (and thus, it doesn't have huge growth by human standards).
Likewise, the Dragon could (and Blackies should) be among the strongest champion creatures, above (stats wise) the Swordbearer, but put in the same tier because of GAMEPLAY reasons.
Lastly, Swordbearer name is deceiving and portrays them as a lesser being, they really need to change their name to something more heroic
Stevie said:And I was talking about Dragons as Boss TIER creatures, not as just 1 Dragon stacks.
And why the hell we need ANOTHER tier? It makes core level useless and champions won't get the respect they deserve, duh ____________
Re-respect?! WTF, what kind of argument is that? You think Dragons are more respected if they're put together with Swordbearers? LOL, great thinking bro!
And yea, no matter how you look at it, even if they have less stats and get a different name, Swordbearers will still be CHAMPION tier, the same as dragons. Can you comprehend at least that much?
I will only give you credit for the "gameplay" argument but I think that could be fixed by adding other creatures rather than dragons. For example Sylvan might have as Champions the Treant and Pegasus/Unicorn. Dungeon can have the Hydra and Scorpicore. Haven could keep the current champions and have a Celestial Dragon as Boss, like Avonu said. It's EASY - and it will extend the lineup and make mythical dragon status more believable. Swordbearer and Dragons both with champion titles is just.. horrible!
Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 30, 2014 04:22 PM
Stevie said:Re-respect?! WTF, what kind of argument is that? You think Dragons are more respected if they're put together with Swordbearers? LOL, great thinking bro!
You would put Swordbearers as Haven boss? You're making no sense, young Stevie!
Stevie said:And yea, no matter how you look at it, even if they have less stats and get a different name, Swordbearers will still be CHAMPION tier, the same as dragons. Can you comprehend at least that much?
Maybe it's just that I don't think that Dragons MUST be 10x better than anything else?
Stevie said:I will only give you credit for the "gameplay" argument but I think that could be fixed by adding other creatures rather than dragons. For example Sylvan might have as Champions the Treant and Pegasus/Unicorn. Dungeon can have the Hydra and Scorpicore. Haven could keep the current champions and have a Celestial Dragon as Boss, like Avonu said. It's EASY - and it will extend the lineup and make mythical dragon status more believable. Swordbearer and Dragons both with champion titles is just.. horrible!
And I repeat the same question I made in my previous post: why the hell we need ANOTHER tier?
It'd simply take away all that makes champion creatures special and, on top of that, following your suggestion like every faction'd have a Dragon as a boss creature???
If H5 was so heavily critized because half of the factions had a dragon as a level 7 creature, I don't want to imagine the outrage of like every town having a dragon. It's among the dumbest suggestions I've read in HC, lol
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And the reason for that is because I said it, mainly. You'd be all over JJ or Elvin otherwise.
Storm-Giant said:why the hell we need ANOTHER tier?
I'll tell you why, so you don't have Swordbearer and Dragons with the same title. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU, CHAMO? It dignifies Dragons to be as the lore says they are - MOST POWERFUL MYTHICAL BEINGS. Not mass produced creatures by the local town factory. Dragons attracted by the power of a Tear of Asha would provide the perfect explanation for them being present in a town.
Storm-Giant said:
It'd simply take away all that makes champion creatures special
Define that "special" please. What do I take from them exactly? Em... nothing?... This isn't even an argument, dude! You would have the same relationship between Champions and Elite with Boss and Champion. THE SAME!
And OF COURSE that you won't have every faction with a Dragon. Each will have a different Boss creature that IS ON PAR WITH A DRAGON, not Swordbearers.
Haven - Celestial Dragon/other light affinity creature - tho Dragon work well as an antithesis to the Darkness Dragon, DUH;
Academy - Void/Prime Revenant/Elemental - there are a lot of void academy cards in DoC;
Stronghold - Ancient Behemoth, or that huge Oliphant;
Necropolis - Reaper/Death;
Sylvan - Green Dragons;
Dungeon - Darkness Dragons;
Fortress - Magma Dragon;
Sanctuary - Kirin;
Inferno - Devil or Abyssal Worm;
I do not really care that much if the dragons are there or not -- although I still long for that epic black dragons vs titans confrontation. However, if they do add it, they gotta do it right -- one of (if not) the only thing H4 managed to do well.
I do not really care that much if the dragons are there or not -- although I still long for that epic black dragons vs titans confrontation. However, if they do add it, they gotta do it right -- one of (if not) the only thing H4 managed to do well.
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 30, 2014 06:03 PM
Not in the game, they are the mythical creatures there just like dragons or vampires. Vampire may mean someone exploitive, someone who sucks you dry as a figure of speech. But that's not what they are in the necropolis towns of HMM games, are they.
This thread is pages long: 
posted August 30, 2014 01:22 PM
Armies in Heroes were always a group of monsters/humanoids with some kind of strange number alongside of them 
