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blizzardboy
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posted November 18, 2014 01:00 AM |
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Italy? Biggest fine arts contributor? That easily goes to Germany; the land of poets and musicians. Germany has contributed more in art & literature than it has in engineering. Even 2nd place would go to France well before Italy. Italy has a lot of art in history because it had people migrate to it because its the historical center of Catholicism. Protestant Christianity & Islam both share an awkward historical alliance of being iconoclastic, which attracted far less artists and visual atmosphere during the Renaissance. A lot of the art in Italy is made by Germans or Frenchmen, etc.
Germany is the biggest contributor in every aspect in Europe other than spreading its language; not necessarily always by strength of its culture, but its the biggest demographic (including in many centuries prior to being officially "Germany"), which makes it produce more.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 18, 2014 01:15 AM |
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Edited by artu at 03:10, 18 Nov 2014.
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Well, yes on music but on poetry, I'd say the most influential is the French and on prose, England, French and if you consider it Europe, the Russians (especially on the novel). Italians and the Dutch are incredible when it comes to the visual arts though.
Edit: Man,I really hate it when someone edits a post adding new stuff following a reply and now the reply looks like it's objecting to something that had already been explained. It's distorts the context of the person that had replied to you.
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted November 18, 2014 01:18 AM |
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Yep, hard to ignore the aliens Michelangelo, Raphael, Leonardo da Vinci, Caravaggio.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 18, 2014 03:14 AM |
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Corribus
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The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted November 18, 2014 03:43 AM |
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I think for the classical period your classification is generally right, artu. (Although, for music the Italians had arguably as much influence in opera, if not more, than the Germans). However beyond that things get a little more blurry. The Russians had a huge influence on music, of course. And French Impressionism drastically changed music as well as the visual arts.
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blizzardboy
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posted November 18, 2014 04:08 AM |
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Salamandre said:
Yep, hard to ignore the aliens Michelangelo, Raphael, Leonardo da Vinci, Caravaggio.
Points stands, you had a lot of religious high-ups in Italy, which meant a lot of migrant artists of German or French or Spanish origin.
Not that Italy wasn't important or didn't contribute a lot, but the top 5 is an extremely selective list  and they don't make it in my book. The Venetians especially were incredibly wealthy, housed a lot of good scientists, and their fleet was the main asset in permanently reversing Ottoman advances into central Europe. The world would be a very different place without them. All that being said, they don't top France and definitely not Germany. Just for France you can picture the technological & societal backstops in Europe without Charlemagne's Empire.
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Salamandre
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posted November 18, 2014 10:19 AM |
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At this level of creativity there is no possible scientific comparison, top to, better than, but only personal taste. Da Vinci is commonly considered as the greatest genius from all times, and his Mona Lisa is the most famous artwork from all times. How to "top" or "match" it with others? On which base we judge, given that we don't even understand how such things were technically created?
Take Stradivarius violins: >10 million dollars today each, a mundane piece of wood. Made by a guy without Internet and without electricity. If we knew how to match them, they wouldn't cost that price, and be mass produced. But we have no clue how he did it, while having extremely sophisticated tools at our disposal.
And Italians are not only stellar in visual arts. Puccini and Verdi are immense composers, and the first is commonly considered the greatest melodists ALL times. O mio babbino caro is probably the most gorgeous melody ever composed and will make even a klingon cry. Nessun Dorma is coming from other galaxies. We can't compare such things, but only be happy such people existed and created them for us, to enjoy and become better humans.
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markkur
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Once upon a time
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posted November 18, 2014 12:19 PM |
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Everyone's picking dead civilizations for a ride in a spaceship? Guess I didn't get Artu's drift. I thought it was about "today".
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 18, 2014 12:39 PM |
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That's open to interpretation. Some focus on the past achievements and some more on how it's going to play out. That's the fun part of it, instead of just plainly asking "what are the nations that you admire the most" or something like that, you bring in a scenario which lets people speculate.
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friendofgunnar
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able to speed up time
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posted November 19, 2014 01:40 AM |
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I thought this was such an absurd question at first but I woke up this morning thinking about it. So here we go:
1. Germany - because you have to automatically include humanity's greatest single creative genius J.S.Bach.
2. Japan - world's greatest cuisine. Not just because they're own stuff is delicious but also because they so proficient at assimilating the best culinary ideas from other countries.
3. Guatemala/The Mayans - Because the mayans showed how far you go with stone age technology, which is amazingly far. Also, the culture was so radically different from the rest of Europe and Asia.
4. Persia/Iran - Because they have the hottest women on earth.
5. The yanomami - Because we need one hunter/gatherer tribe in there for diversity's sake. I'm not fixed on the yanomami btw...maybe we can hold auditions.
Edit:
Wait! I thought of one more. If there was a number 6 I'd have to say Canada, because they seem to have perfected the art of a stable, functional government - which may possibly be humankind's greatest achievement yet.
Edit2:
Wait! I just read the OP again and realize my answer doesn't really apply. I had in mind a kind of museum ship for aliens. If the goal was to transplant or continue the human species somewhere then I'd pick the best people that were available and then whatever cultures they happened to bring, well then Hoopa!
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Corribus
Hero of Order
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posted November 19, 2014 02:44 AM |
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friendofgunnar said:
2. Japan - world's greatest cuisine. Not just because they're own stuff is delicious but also because they so proficient at assimilating the best culinary ideas from other countries.
Sorry, I think if you're going to award a culture the prize for cuisine as art form, you've got to award it to the French. I don't just say that as someone who loves French food, and I don't think what is at issue is the tastiest cuisine. They've just really influenced the process (art) of cooking more than anyone else.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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fred79
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posted November 19, 2014 03:09 AM |
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i don't think i've ever eaten real french cuisine. but after a quick perusal for restaurants in my area(and their subsequent pics/ratings of their food), my interest is piqued.
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mvassilev
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posted November 19, 2014 03:13 AM |
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In no particular order:
Japan, for its cuisine and arts
America, for its civic tradition of individualism, as well as technological advances
Germany, for industriousness and science
Britain, for its contributions to education (Oxford, Cambridge), science, and philosophy
China, for manpower
although Geny made a strong case for the Jews, so if "manpower" is cheating, then Israel instead of China.
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Corribus
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posted November 19, 2014 03:19 AM |
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Edited by Corribus at 03:19, 19 Nov 2014.
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@Fred
Well, French food is certainly good, and the best food in the world is in Paris (sorry, no arguments allowed), but I'm not really referring to the cuisine itself but the way the French practically invented modern cooking. Think about how many of our cooking and food prep terms are French in origin (sauté, flambé, filet, mire poix, mayonnaise, bouquet garni and on and on). Such a large portion of international dishes owe pretty much everything to French trailblazing chefs during the 17-20th centuries, and many people don't even realize it. Not surprisingly the term 'haute cuisine', or even just the term 'cuisine'... is French!
The Italians may have invented cooking, but the French perfected it. It's actually quite fascinating, how European history can be traced through the styles of cooking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_cuisine
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted November 19, 2014 03:31 AM |
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My choice:-
South Korea - for the lovely food, culture, Kpop, Korean men , technology. Happy Together is the best TV program evah!. Jae-suk is hysterical in everything. Best tv.
Australia - I love Australia having lived there. Awesome place. Amazing beaches, wide open free places, awesome hot weather. Almost paradise.
Japan - culture, food, people, technology, general nuttiness. Kawaii time. Onsen, sento's, kimono's, temples and shrines, butler cafes, love hotels.
Italy/Greece - probably the best cuisine in the world, fashion, lifestyle, scenery, mopeds with no helmets.
Norway - beautiful fjords and trolls. Oh also snowballs and huskies.
Honorable mention - Iceland. Reykjavik nightlife, lopapeysa, Hakarl and Brennivin, oh and Icelandic ponies.
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blizzardboy
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posted November 19, 2014 04:13 AM |
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meroe said:
My choice:-
South Korea - Kpop
This argument is highly compelling. I might have to replace one of mine.
I Got a Boy. You can't not love this song. Bach is good and all, but Girl's Generation is supra-genius (come at me Salamandre).
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Baklava
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posted November 19, 2014 03:45 PM |
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A purely theoretical discussion with an improbable and loosely defined starting point, which allows for ample amounts of generalization and oversimplification...
...without me?
EVERYONE MOVE ASIDE, I'M HOPPING IN.
My general criteria:
No legacy of conflict with any of the other nations chosen.
No legacy of imperialistic tendencies, superior attitude or attempted world domination - too risky, could cause a rift between the cultures.
No legacy of being pampered or high standards of lifestyle.
So, my choice would be:
India - been a while since the Rajas, and they had Gandhi's principles of solidarity in between, which reduces imperialism to a minimum. Hardworking, industrious, accustomed to poverty, yet incredibly quick learners and fast to develop. Substantial population growth and ability to live and work as immigrants all over the planet spell adaptability. Some of the more negative conservative traditions such as castes and other remnants in the more undeveloped parts of India would be meaningless in the cramped multicultural conditions of a space colony, but they'd bring their cultural and philosophical heritage which is rich and unpampered enough to be sent out.
Switzerland - while a developed Western nation accustomed to a rich lifestyle, if I'd choose any of those, I'd choose the Swiss. They don't have the laid back attitude of the Mediterranian which I love but this is a space colony we're talking about, they're used to the cold and mountainous landscapes where they live and work, they all undergo mandatory military training and they're solid entrerpreneurs. Scientifically, they've got CERN, and they'd know a thing or two about agriculture and development in unforgiving climates. Their history of neutrality would mean a factor of stability in the colony, and their democratic traditions, tendency to vote on everything and collective consciousness which leads them to vote pretty much correctly on everything would make it harder for an authoritarian regime to form and take hold of the colony. Chances are they would adapt well to a situation where their luxuries disappear - working to make them happen again rather than riot over their losses. Note: I had a hard time picking between them or the Jews, but I decided I'll keep the Jews for an alternative lineup where I also pick the Germans, because invisible floating historical guilt would make the Germans feel bad when they get the imminent idea of taking the leading place in the colony.
Russia - now, with everything I said, this choice looks controversial as shyte. But stay with me here. The Russians bring:
-The tradition of pioneering space programs and great scientific minds (pragmatic and theoretical alike), experienced in astrophysics, nuclear physics, weapon development and manufacture. All this at a budget far lesser than that of the West.
-Accustomed to the hardest trials of a nation, surviving in hostile conditions of war, climate and oppression, and without the level of pamperedness present in the West, the Russians are proven survivors. We like to assume the Westerners would deal with these issues great as well, certainly, but we're trying to lower the risks here.
-When organized correctly, the Russians are formidable fighters in war, and rapid industrialists and manufacturers in both war and peace. They have a history of exploration and colonization, especially of unforgiving areas, and a military history full of useful experience.
-Providing a traditional cultural bridge between the East and the West, as well as having a rich history of their own, the Russians would bring a crapload of music, literature, sports and more to the cultural table.
-The chief problem with the Russians is that you might believe they'll try to conquer the planet and instill an authoritarian regime. They won't. As long as you don't hand over the entire colony's defense to them, they won't. All nations are of the same size here, for the purposes of the discussion. Philosophical discussions over the free market would be meaningless: the market and trade between the factions are bound to form in the colony whomever you send, and absolute economic freedom would be as impossible while making a colony in space as it is on Earth today. As long as all the factions work together and watch over each other, the Russians should not influence the development of the space civilization in any notable bad way, and they'd be useful as hell. Besides, there are Russian supporters of the free market as well, and don't forget the influence of cramped multicultural conditions. It'd all turn out fine.
Japan: As skeptical as I am of Western prejudice and fears over a new communist bloc forming, I'm sure as hell not taking BOTH the Russians and the Chinese on this. I've picked India for repopulation, unpamperedness, industriousness and rapid development, so I'll take Japan here. Besides, there's a history of conflict between the Japs and the Chinese which, while not so relevant today, can't hurt to not have.
So, the Japs. Everyone and their eggplant took the Japs. What's there to explain? They work hard, they play hard. Their trains run on time. They're polite and welcoming as hell. They wait in a tranquil line for water supplies in the middle of an apocalypse. They jump into a pool of radiation to save their community. Sure, they tried to instill an imperialist jackboot over half of Asia 70 years ago, but who didn't. Today, they're an industrial and scientific powerhouse with a mentality which would simply fit perfect in a space colony. They're also solid diplomats and traders whom I believe would go along well with the chosen nations - and there can be no world without a glimpse of Far Eastern culture and tradition.
The fifth nation would be either Brazil or South Africa. With strong genetical physical predispositions, it's always healthy to have a rich and diverse genestock. These folks also have experience dealing with extreme climates and environments - warm ones, for a change, rather than the icy experiences of Russians and the Swiss; this comes with a slight resistance to various microorganisms and other types of spam. The more urban inhabitants are part of their countries' rapidly growing economies, as they are members of the BRICS bloc and expected to grow rapidly and take their place in the top in the next several years, and both are leaders in their regions' scientific efforts. Their inexperience would be made up for by the other nations they would be sent with, and I believe they'd be able to take their place soon enough. I have taken the liberty of assuming the passengers would be tested for AIDS before being allowed on the ship.
Many other combinations could work too, of course. Personally, I'd love to see what happens if you send Jamaica, the Czechs, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands and Australia (which is technically six nations but what the hell, it's a party). It would probably make for an incredibly fun journey lasting until the next St Patrick's day, when they'd crash into an asteroid and explode singing drunkenly, which is probably somewhat of a metaphor on how humanity is going to end anyway.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 19, 2014 04:05 PM |
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Quote:
No legacy of imperialistic tendencies, superior attitude or attempted world domination - too risky, could cause a rift between the cultures.
Nice one. But with both Japan and Russia, this rule kind of blew on you, didn't it? Especially, if we take into account that while India is not imperialistic in an international sense, considering its size and population, the social cast system can be accepted as a micro-imperialism within itself.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 19, 2014 04:32 PM |
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I love how people take japan for culture, which, to be frank, is god damn awful. It's like a cast society from the history of india.
Korea is the same with added feudal lords
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 19, 2014 05:49 PM |
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I think that's because the Western eye unintentionally evaluates them based on how they treat strangers and tourists which is, like many Eastern traditions very hospitable.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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This thread is pages long: 
