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| Thread: Black Knight or Dullahan ? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Doomhammer
Known Hero
Smasher of pasties
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posted November 27, 2014 02:37 PM |
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Black knight. The other one sounds stupid.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 27, 2014 02:59 PM |
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and what should the black knight be?
vampire? skeleton? ghost? unknown? whatever?
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted November 27, 2014 03:01 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted November 27, 2014 03:15 PM |
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Fauch said:
and what should the black knight be?
vampire? skeleton? ghost? unknown? whatever?
Ressurected knight/champion? Knight that is still alive but serves the necromancers? Or maybe he is high ranking vampire ... make some story does it matter ?
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted November 27, 2014 03:18 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Ressurected knight/champion? Knight that is still alive but serves the necromancers? Or maybe he is high ranking vampire ... make some story does it matter ?
Whether it matters or not, should depend on it's tier, I'd say.
If it is Elite, no, it doesn't realy matter as most Cavalry are Elite (Haven's Cavalier and Stronghold (supposedly leaked) Basilisk-rider). However, if it were to be a Champion or a Core, that would need some good explaination, as to the why of their greater or lesser power.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted November 27, 2014 04:17 PM |
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ofc black knight. dullahan? what even is that? headless rider? it kinda looks like a handicapped rider.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 27, 2014 05:11 PM |
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RMZ1989 said:
I seriously don't see what is so special with Dullahan. I mean, he isn't bad, but he is literally Death/Dread Knight with different name and head in his hands.
I am fine with both, they are both cool, just don't think that Dullahan is much better than Dread Knight.
I seriously don't see what is so special with the Dread Knight. I mean, he isn't bad, but he is literally Dullahan with different name and head on his shoulders.
I am fine with both, they are both cool, just don't think that Dread Knight is much better than Dullahan.
I voted for Dullahan, because I really dislike the naming convention of "Adjective Noun" that Dread/Black Knight gives off, as well as the old Sword Bearer, and Magic Bird, and Blazing Glory... and so forth. Dullahan is a pretty good replacement for the name, and is more interesting that what usually is a re-skin of the Horse riding Human flavor of the year. I feel the same way towards Dullahan as I do Landskencht and Simurgh: it's not a totally bland name.
Like Avirosb said, they honestly could be upgrades of one another. I wouldn't mind this. Even if the Dread/Black (which ever) is the upgrade of the Dullahan, I'd be okay.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 27, 2014 05:49 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
I personaly don't care.. I whish for this
Death Dealer
Oh, another Dread Knight with different name? Lovely.
Guys, in the end it doesn't matter how it is called. The concept is basically the same, be it with an Axe, or Sword, or Spear, without a head etc.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 27, 2014 06:05 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 18:06, 27 Nov 2014.
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Protolisk said:
I seriously don't see what is so special with the Dread Knight.
A cult unit that made its only appearance within Necro lineup in a cult game, that is what is so special about him.
Like the Behemoth, even being absent for a long time, he still is very popular.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 27, 2014 07:00 PM |
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just removing a head seems like a downgrade to me 
Anyway, h3 dread knights were just so perfect in their dark, twisted mirror image of the cavalier. It reinforced Necro as an evil mirror of sorts to haven while looking extremely cool. they felt intelligent and important, something that doesn't really strike me as possible if they would've lacked a head...
black knight for me in other words 
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted November 27, 2014 07:08 PM |
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RMZ1989 said:
Dave_Jame said:
I personaly don't care.. I whish for this
Death Dealer
Oh, another Dread Knight with different name? Lovely.
Guys, in the end it doesn't matter how it is called. The concept is basically the same, be it with an Axe, or Sword, or Spear, without a head etc.
Saying that Death dealer is "a black knight with a different name" is like "Deathwing is another dragon with a different name". It is not A death dealer, it is THE Death Dealer. A proper name for a character, and far more a rather iconic character of one of the great ilustrators of fantasy. It is a character similar to those of Lady Death or Conan.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 27, 2014 07:10 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
Saying that Death dealer is "a black knight with a different name" is like "Deathwing is another dragon with a different name". It is not A death dealer, it is THE Death Dealer. A proper name for a character, and far more a rather iconic character of one of the great ilustrators of fantasy. It is a character similar to those of Lady Death or Conan.
so it's a hero character?
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted November 27, 2014 08:13 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Dave_Jame said:
Saying that Death dealer is "a black knight with a different name" is like "Deathwing is another dragon with a different name". It is not A death dealer, it is THE Death Dealer. A proper name for a character, and far more a rather iconic character of one of the great ilustrators of fantasy. It is a character similar to those of Lady Death or Conan.
so it's a hero character?
Actually the original is the artwork which spamed the rest.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 27, 2014 08:42 PM |
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Edited by RMZ1989 at 20:44, 27 Nov 2014.
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Dave_Jame said:
RMZ1989 said:
Dave_Jame said:
I personaly don't care.. I whish for this
Death Dealer
Oh, another Dread Knight with different name? Lovely.
Guys, in the end it doesn't matter how it is called. The concept is basically the same, be it with an Axe, or Sword, or Spear, without a head etc.
Saying that Death dealer is "a black knight with a different name" is like "Deathwing is another dragon with a different name". It is not A death dealer, it is THE Death Dealer. A proper name for a character, and far more a rather iconic character of one of the great ilustrators of fantasy. It is a character similar to those of Lady Death or Conan.
Yeah, but that is what you get by linking just a picture of something that still is somewhat similar to Black Knight. Why is he so special, what can he do, what are his abilities and powers, what exactly is he, is he undead, is he someone that is alive but immortal?
What are the differences between a Black Knight and Death Dealer?
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 27, 2014 08:56 PM |
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could see a Death Dealer hero character as a nod but not a unit... wouldn't that kinda de-value the guy?
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted November 27, 2014 09:39 PM |
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RMZ1989 said:
Yeah, but that is what you get by linking just a picture of something that still is somewhat similar to Black Knight. Why is he so special, what can he do, what are his abilities and powers, what exactly is he, is he undead, is he someone that is alive but immortal?
What are the differences between a Black Knight and Death Dealer?
Sorry, but I expected him to be a bit more known. What is he like? Well To learn that you would have to read the books. But Death Dealer is not about what he is, or he can. It is how he looks. It is his unique and iconic look that made the character what he is. Death Dealer is a the art that helped created the image of black knights we know today. But at the same time is almost forgoten, which can be used as fresh approache and at the same time a tribute to the clasical fantasy style of old. Which is a bit better approache then puting in local mythology inspired things just for the sake of "It was not here yet".
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 28, 2014 04:07 AM |
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Galaad said:
Protolisk said:
I seriously don't see what is so special with the Dread Knight.
A cult unit that made its only appearance within Necro lineup in a cult game, that is what is so special about him.
Like the Behemoth, even being absent for a long time, he still is very popular.
If you see, I was copying the form of his post, and re-writing it from the perspective of liking the Dullahan instead. I understand that there is cult status, but I myself am not in that cult.
Honestly, it is just a name, and the placement of a head. I just never liked the naming convention of "Adjective Noun" or "Noun Noun", like the many many upgrades of H3/H5/H6, and some unfortunate normal versions of units that I already described (more versions include Hell Charger, Arch Mage/Lich, Vampire Lord/Prince, etc. along with Sword Master, Arcane Eagle, Dread Knight, Blazing Glory), which even the Death Dealer falls victim to, however cool that painting is. I find it really dull, while upgrades that changed the name I tended to like more, such as Cavalier=> Champion, Monk => Zealot, Pikeman=> Halberdier. I find these names better than the naming of Griffin => Royal Griffin, and even Angel => Archangel. It's why I like the names of Seraph=> Celestial way more, as I feel it had at least some thought beyond things like "Minotaur King, Medusa Queens", which leads me to believe I am now somehow leading an army full of creature royalty? It doesn't mesh so well with me, I never liked it all that much. But, things like Roc=>Thunderbird are interesting to me, as opposed to Red Dragon => Black Dragon. Oooh, the color changed! Now they are more ominous! Spooky! (I don't really like Thunderbird by itself either, but it is already a "real world" mythological unit, so I have to deal with it, and they connected it to another real life mythological bird, the Roc, which actually flowed pretty well, even though their mythological backgrounds were different.)
If anything, I'd rather something like the Wraith than another person an a horse, dead or alive. However, this thread isn't about that, it's about a mythological guy on a horse and a dead guy on a horse, so why not have it be a Dullahan? The Dread/Black Knight, as far as I have seen, had been a unit twice, and only once as a faction unit, the other time as a neutral, and otherwise has been a hero class as Death Knight anyway in 3 games now, I believe. It's double-dipping into the unimaginative naming scheme that is "Adjective Noun" in H3, as well as having some of the most uninspired artwork, with a Death Knight hero that can lead Black Knights and Dread Knights. What makes this a particularly named Adjective Knight better than any other Adjective Knights in the Necropolis army? A more luxurious adjective? What makes this guy more powerful than this guy or this guy? The angle of the artwork? The gold trim? The staff instead of a sword? It's like they made one black-armored guy on a horse, and realized that they could get away with having more black armored guys on horses. And then give them more armor for themselves and the horses. The Behemoth is at least a beast, with claws and teeth gnashing and scrapping. Nothing else looks like em in the game. These guys are just... dudes on horses. Which we already get in the Haven equivalent of the season along with almost every hero ever.
This also feels like one of those times where I feel the difference of "Mythological" and "Created" units are clashing again, but somehow, against the norm of people wanting mythological units and disliking the bland one, they take the uninspired Adjective Nouning creature in place of a nearly identical Mythological unit. With that whole thread being filled with "We want mythological units, not made up units!" I thought that people would accept an actual myth unit. It just feels... I don't know, hypocritical. You choose between a guy who is has a real world mythological connection, or, as far as Wikipedia can tell me, is some random evil guy in armor with armor painted not so cheery (for Black Knights) with a couple of historic things, but they are all alive, and his bigger brother, a Marvel Comics character. Literally the only things I can find called Dread Knight is that guy and a whole bunch of things for Warhammer 40K. It's not myth based, or even all that interesting. The redeeming factor of the Dread Knight are his skills, one he copied from H2's mummies, and the other nearly anyone else can do via the Luck mechanic. I really cannot wrap my head around it.
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jeremiahemo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted November 28, 2014 06:58 AM |
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Dread Knight isn't really epic at all. If you go by the lore, Dullahan is more popular.
Dullahan is more cool and more unique. I mean we already have many knights in the game but how many of them doesn't have heads?
Dullahan >>>>>> Dread Knights
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 28, 2014 07:52 AM |
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Black Knight is more fitting as an army cavalry unit. But if instead you want to scare some peasants maybe Dullahan would do the job better...
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted November 28, 2014 09:30 AM |
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@ Protolisk.
Sometimes abilities and looks are enought to create a cult. Like the painting I posted, the image itself was powerfull enought to gain cultt status. And in heroes games, How many heroes that now have a cult status actually were interesting. Gule for one. I never was interested in this character and I hate it with passion, and why is he so popular? Well he could make snipers. Solmyr? He was just a cool looking art with chain-lightning. Only later based on his popularity he got a bit of depth. And in the later games Deleb. A charecter that did not speak a line of text until now. But still just here name rings bells. Why? One Abilitie in One game. She has been in 3 now.
Creatures like the H3 black knight are important for the series to create it's identity. That is why people want him back.
My question here is, for all of you, is the debate about the looks, the imagery? Or about the phrasing and naming?
The depiction of Dullahan is just a black rider whitout a head. A myth so overused in popular culture I personaly can't see it in anything that takes it self atleast a bit serious. It's like the Frankenstain's monster. Used in so many show's I dare to describe it as clishe.
And if the topic here is the name. Would the name itself justify its use by simply beeing "not overused"? Even if the depiction would not 100% corespond with the myth? Just look how many people actually asked why doesn't Simurgh look like the hybrid he is depicted as in some myths.
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