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| Thread: Black Knight or Dullahan ? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 28, 2014 08:45 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Like Medusa, minotaur, behemoth, hydra, Cerberus ?  And that just to name a few, there are many more "unique" creatures that are recruitable by hundreds. I see you got no problem with that...
they are easily turned into races/factions. dullahan not so much.
personally i just want a knight covered head to toe in black, semi-spiked armour without anything of his skin showing. nothing. so heavily covered in black plates he might just (but isn't) be a reanimated suit of armour. It's simply creepier.
having him hold the head would just turn said head into a thing, an object, a prop. and no one is scared of props.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 28, 2014 10:10 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Why is there no option for Ankou? I know it's the 100th time I say this but Ankou is the best option: it's a reaper+death knight and it's mythological! So my vote goes for Ankou (though I can't vote him  )
Sorry about that  , I really like your Ankou idea, please fellow members, comment in favor of it if you are 
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted November 28, 2014 10:31 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 22:32, 28 Nov 2014.
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An Ankou would be neat and would bring back some of the old feel of Necropolis.
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2014 01:09 AM |
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a cursed full plate of spiky black armor leaving only eyes naked. eyes glow red. an awesome elegant sword in his hands, thin but extremely sharp & deadly. An undead horse covered with same style of spikes and armor with a symbol of death on his forehead.
basicly a new take on classic good black knight. thats all im asking for.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 29, 2014 01:27 AM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Like Medusa, minotaur, behemoth, hydra, Cerberus ? And that just to name a few, there are many more "unique" creatures that are recruitable by hundreds. I see you got no problem with that...
Apples and oranges, LizardWarrior. Being a Medusa, a Minotaur, a Behemoth, Hydra or Cerberus means being a creature type. Being a Dullahan means being in the condition of having been beheaded. Those are two different things, in my opinion.
That as an aside, I wouldn't mind seeing a heavily armored unit riding an armored mount, as long as bones are showing. Like wearing an open helmet, which shows a skeletal face; the horse armor should leave some parts exposed, especially around the lower side of the head and its legs, showing bones and decaying flesh.
Even if it's "yet another horse mounted unit", both its looks and its function on the battlefield should be different - or at least, different enough to stand on its own. Unlike the Cavalier / Cuirassier, a Dread Knight shouldn't have a Charge attack. I actually liked the ability in Heroes3, where they simply had a chance to deal double damage to their target. Having the chance to apply a curse on their attack and/or ignoring their target's armor might also be interesting things.
And yes, while it's another horse, you have to keep in mind that horses were commonly used in medieval times and as such are quite a canonical representation of something we can easily identify with. Going for more exotic mounts (undead Camels? Necropolis already has a more Egyptian feel as it is) means detaching players from the unit as it's less recognizable.
And that's also something of a risk when trying to include all sorts of exotic mythological creatures, by the way. There's a group who will likely understand its concept and background, but there will also be a group who hasn't yet come in contact with it and who will therefore not appreciate it in the same way. For instance, LizardWarriors' Romanian Town concept has creatures in it I've never heard of.
Since that group doesn't have the required cultural background, they might actually be turned away from the way those more exotic mythological creatures are integrated in the game, alienating their player base.
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jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted November 29, 2014 01:58 AM |
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Edited by jackson at 02:32, 29 Nov 2014.
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Galaad said:
I really like your Ankou idea, please fellow members, comment in favor of it if you are
I am in favor of the Ankou. Though I'm honestly not in love with the cart or the hat. I would prefer a cloaked and hooded Ankou, with none of their face or skin visible, similar to the mysterious Dread Knight.
Maurice said:
That as an aside, I wouldn't mind seeing a heavily armored unit riding an armored mount, as long as bones are showing. Like wearing an open helmet, which shows a skeletal face; the horse armor should leave some parts exposed, especially around the lower side of the head and its legs, showing bones and decaying flesh.
I'd actually prefer Dread Knights as completely covered, showing nothing underneath the black armor (black, not green!). I do think the horse should be visibly undead though.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted November 29, 2014 02:23 AM |
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Maurice said:
And that's also something of a risk when trying to include all sorts of exotic mythological creatures, by the way. There's a group who will likely understand its concept and background, but there will also be a group who hasn't yet come in contact with it and who will therefore not appreciate it in the same way. For instance, LizardWarriors' Romanian Town concept has creatures in it I've never heard of.
Since that group doesn't have the required cultural background, they might actually be turned away from the way those more exotic mythological creatures are integrated in the game, alienating their player base.
I think this has already happened with a few of the H6 creatures such as the Lamasu and Kirin.
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jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted November 29, 2014 02:47 AM |
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Gryphs said:
Maurice said:
And that's also something of a risk when trying to include all sorts of exotic mythological creatures, by the way. There's a group who will likely understand its concept and background, but there will also be a group who hasn't yet come in contact with it and who will therefore not appreciate it in the same way. For instance, LizardWarriors' Romanian Town concept has creatures in it I've never heard of.
Since that group doesn't have the required cultural background, they might actually be turned away from the way those more exotic mythological creatures are integrated in the game, alienating their player base.
I think this has already happened with a few of the H6 creatures such as the Lamasu and Kirin.
I think the Kirin and Lamasu are good additions. I don't like that the Lamasu is undead and I don't like its lore, but I don't think Lamasus themselves were a bad idea, and I am fond of the Kirins.
I don't believe that mythological creatures that are somewhat more obscure are a bad idea simply because many people aren't familiar with them. They're being presented in a game that consists primarily of mythological creatures - some are very famous, some are fairly famous, and a few are less famous. I think most fans of Heroes would enjoy many of the less famous ones, just so long as they're executed well.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted November 29, 2014 03:21 AM |
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I have a hard time taking seriously the idea of an entire contingent of headless horsemen riding around. A headless horsemen is cool as a singular mythological creature, but when you multiply them and visualize a cavalry unit of these dudes with their heads in their laps, it makes me 'lol' more than anything. Necropolis is probably super wealthy from all those disability checks they're hauling in to supplement their income. You could even incorporate it into the game. "It's the start of the month! Each Dullahan provides your kingdom with 500 gold!"
I think dread knights (or some other elite creature) is much better suited for a large-scale game like HoMM, with its armies and kingdoms.
Yes, there are other unique mythological creatures that have been adapted and refitted in the HoMM universe and now exist in numbers, but a snake-haired archer or a 3-headed fire hound are far more conceivable to turn into a 'race', whereas some vertically-challenged horse jockey... not so much. What exactly do the necromancers do? Chop their heads off before animating them into physically handicapped warriors of darkness? "They get to carry their heads around with their arms! It's so much better this way!" Small wonder that the necromancers' got wasted by the wizards and fled into exile. It was probably the easiest war ever.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2014 06:42 AM |
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I find the idea that "unknown" mythological creatures are a means of turning people away as strange; after all, all creatures you've ever heard about, someone or something else had to tell you about them first. Knowing about monsters is not innate, so when someone tells you of the idea of a giant fire breathing lizard, you are amazed someone came up with that, just as you are amazed with a lion-bat-scorpion hybrid, or a giant man with one eye, so on and so forth.
Some people have touched upon the "uniqueness" factor, and one counter-argument was that other "mythologically unique" units could easily be made a race. One problem: the Dullahan, or even Dread Knights, aren't a race of things. They are dead, and dead things can't really propagate. They are made, not born or hatched. There isn't much a "race" of Dread/Black Knights/Dullahans, as much as there is a "race" of Golems or Skeletons.
And yes, the idea that Necromancers have to always slice off the head of the Dullahan would seem silly, but, as far as we know, Skeletons are only bones, no fleshy bits. Did Necromancers pick them clean before they raised them up? Lamasus were created explicitly because the "normal" method of fusing a human and a manticore created a creature that only lived for a few moments. That means every time a Lamasu was made for combat use, they had to first create a manticore/human hybrid that would then die, and then raise that up. If not this, then they otherwise created a gargantuan amount of living Lamasus all at once without realizing that they all die shortly thereafter, and there are now magical warehouses filled to the brim with Lamasu carcasses ready for necromantic awakening. Necromancers aren't super pragmatic sometimes. So, of course in a coming war the Necromancers would get their butts handed to them on a silver platter and resort to conventional methods.
In this vote, I'd want a Dullahan. Would I want a Wraith/Reaper unit, or a Lamasu in it's place? Yes, no hesitation.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 29, 2014 06:55 AM |
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Actually, beheading was a popular method for lords (at least in England) during the middle-ages, so building up a group of headless horsemen wouldn't actually be that hard, since most who got beheaded would in fact be reasonable horsemen to begin with.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2014 09:58 AM |
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Protolisk said:
And yes, the idea that Necromancers have to always slice off the head of the Dullahan would seem silly, but, as far as we know, Skeletons are only bones, no fleshy bits. Did Necromancers pick them clean before they raised them up?
Skeletons are (from what i understand atleas - idk what is Heroes' lore explanation of them) ancient .. or atleast long dead warriors brought back to life - so there would be no flesh left on vast majority of them. Yes it would be logical that some of them would maye have some tissue left ... but unit in general would be sekeletal only. So ... because of entire unit is being depicted as one soldier, with numbers on bottom ... that's what you get. It's like ... do all crossbowman have same face? .. exactley same uniform... do all cavaliers ride same collored horse? ... ofc not, that's just how they are depicted.
In regards to Dullahan .. every single one of them must have a head missing ... If you have dread knights ... sure some of them may have limbs or even heads missing, but not majority of'em ... so you have to depict them with head on their shoulders. (you can still mention it in lore that some of them have parts missing, even if thats not shown tho)
And regarding lamasu - i never liked unit's lore just for those reasons. (even if i liked unit visualy) To me it would be more logical that they were once numerous creatures (like griffins or unicorns), that got extinct, and necromancers brought them back to life...
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted November 29, 2014 02:31 PM |
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People that vote Black Knight are boring.
Really why would you like a creature that is from D&D mainly? A clone of the Death Knight?
Dullahan, is from mythology, is much more original, the head-in-hands is better than just a skeleton riding a horse. AND DULLAHAN IS NOT A SKELETON!
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Too bad people vote for Black KNight (HORRIBLE STUPID NAME BTW) more.
Also for people that say that you can't have MULTIPLE DULLAHAN, please stop! Dullahan create more dullahan themselves, just as more vampires are created.
Maurice said:
And that's also something of a risk when trying to include all sorts of exotic mythological creatures, by the way. There's a group who will likely understand its concept and background, but there will also be a group who hasn't yet come in contact with it and who will therefore not appreciate it in the same way. For instance, LizardWarriors' Romanian Town concept has creatures in it I've never heard of.
Since that group doesn't have the required cultural background, they might actually be turned away from the way those more exotic mythological creatures are integrated in the game, alienating their player base.
Look with people like you the world will never change, we keep being locked with the same boring snow as always, mainly boring medusa, minotaur, harpy, zombie, vampire, werewolf, D&d snow, gobin, giant insects and other such boring uninspired crap that is easy to understand for people with lacking braincells.
Sorry, but i'm sick and tired of simple souls, please be replaced by more original, creative and intelligent souls soon.
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted November 29, 2014 02:45 PM |
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The Irish dullahan (also Gan Ceann, meaning "without a head" in Irish) is a type of unseelie fairy.
The dullahan is a headless rider, usually on a black horse who carries his or her own head under one arm. The head's eyes are small, black, and constantly dart about like flies, while the mouth is constantly in a hideous grin that touches both sides of the head. The flesh of the head is said to have the color and consistency of moldy cheese. The dullahan uses the spine of a human corpse for a whip, and their wagon is adorned with funereal objects (e.g. candles in skulls to light the way, the spokes of the wheels are made from thigh bones, the wagon's covering made from a worm-chewed pall) or dried human skin. When the dullahan stops riding, that is where a person is due to die. The dullahan calls out their name, at which point they immediately perish.
There is no way to bar the road against a dullahan – all locks and gates open to them when they approach. They do not appreciate being watched while on their errands, throwing a basin of blood on those who dare to do so (often a mark that they are among the next to die), or even lashing out the watchers' eyes with their whips. They are frightened of gold, and even a single gold pin can drive a dullahan away.
Enough things that set this awesome monster appart from the horrible D&D riders that are nothing more than undead knights. BORING!!!!!!
The chariot (ankou) could be the upgrade for the horse-riding Dullahan.
To prove that the dullahan is popular and famous, and that you guys are just stupid that you can't pronounce a simple name:
Popular culture[edit]
19 September 2010 the second episode of Lost Girl titled "Where There's a Will, There's a Fae," a Dullahan mercenary is present.
Anime, light novels and manga[edit]
April 2004 in the Durarara!! light novel, manga and anime, a Dullahan named Celty Sturluson is featured as a main character.
February 2013 in the The Devil is a Part-Timer! (Hataraku Maou-sama!) light novel, manga and anime, Devil King Sadao's mundane bicycle is referred to as 'The Dullahan'.
From January 2014 in the Monster Musume no Iru Nichijou manga, a young Dullahan named 'Lala' makes unsuccessful threats against the main protagonist of the series, but ends up moving into his house.
Books[edit]
1820 The Legend of Sleepy Hollow introduced its incarnation of the Headless Horseman type character linked to the Dullahan.
1981 Cathedral by Nelson DeMille, in chapter 54, refers to the Dullahan in the following passages: "You're from the north, and you've heard the caoine-the funeral cry of the peasants. It's meant to imitate the wail of a chorus of banshees." "...We'll I've heard the actual banshees' wail, Father, whistling through the louvers all night..." "...And I've seen the coach-a-bower. Immense it was and black-polished, riding over these rooftops, a red coffin mounted atop it, and a headless Dullahan madly whipping a team of headless horses...and the coach drew past this window, Father, and the coachman threw in my face a basin of cold blood."
2 July 1998 Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets introduced "The Headless Hunt", a group of headless ghosts who hunt, similar to the Dullahan.
2 September 2010 in the book Skulduggery Pleasant: Mortal Coil by Derek Landy, A Dullahan appears to take Stephanie to Dr. Nye so she can have him seal her true name.
Films[edit]
The 1959 Disney film Darby O'Gill and the Little People does not name the Dullahan directly, but portrays it as the headless driver of the Cóiste Bodhar.
In the 1999 Hallmark movie "The Magical Legend of the Leprechauns", a troupe of leprechauns has a brief encounter with a very depressed Dunlang the Dullahan.
The 1999 American film, Sleepy Hollow starred Johnny Depp and Christina Ricci.
Music[edit]
The 2010 song 'Dullahan' by the group Philosophy Slap - http://www.reverbnation.com/philosophyslap/song/10371487-dullahan - appeared on the 2010 album "Monsters With Attitude"
In music playing during the second stage boss fight of Touhou Project's Double Dealing Character is titled "Dullahan Under the Willows" despite Sekibanki being a nukekubi
Games[edit]
Several Castlevania games feature the Dullahan figure, although as undead rather than faeries:
1989 first featured them in Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse for the Nintendo Entertainment System as "Headless Hunters", and again under the same name in Super Castlevania IV for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System.
They appear in Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, this time adopting the name "Dhuron", which was most likely a phonetic mistranslation.
The Dullahan was featured as a "boss" enemy in the Japanese-only PC Engine game Castlevania: Rondo of Blood, as well as the more widely distributed Super Nintendo game it inspired, Castlevania: Dracula X (Castlevania: Vampire's Kiss in Europe), and the Nintendo DS game Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin.
More recently, the character was featured in Castlevania: Lament of Innocence, Castlevania: Curse of Darkness, Castlevania: The Arcade (only in Japan and Europe), and Pachislot Akumajō Dracula II (only in Japan).
Beginning with 1990's Final Fantasy III, The Dullahan makes several appearances as an enemy in the Final Fantasy series of games.
In the 1992 game Shining Force (Sega Genesis), he is an enemy known as "Durahan". Players may be fooled at first by a large face but that is only a decoration on his armour for upon closer inspection, you will see that he has no head.
In the 1997 real time strategy PC game Seven Kingdoms, One of the monster races is known as the Dullahan. The Dullahan are heavily armored headless creatures.
First introduced in the February 1999 game Monster Rancher 2, one of the recurring creature types in the Monster Rancher franchise is the Durahan, named using a Romanization of the Japanese pronunciation of the word "dullahan." Although typically appearing as a spectral suit of armour, the flavour text of the creature references the dullahan myths.
In the December 1999 game Strider 2, for the original PlayStation, a Dullahan appears as a Stage Boss.
In the 2000 Vagrant Story video game, the Dullahan is a boss that the protagonist, Ashley Riot, encounters early on.
In the 2000 "Valkyrie Profile" game, the ghost of the decapitated King Barbarossa is fought as boss, taking the form of a gigantic Dullahan. A variation of this boss is found as a normal enemy later on the game with a different name.
In the 2001 Golden Sun franchise, Dullahan appears as a powerful boss monster and ally that can be called by the Necromage class.
In the 2002 Ragnarok Online MMORPG, there is a Dullahan named creature who removes its helmet when attacking to reveal it has no head.
In the 2006 Blue Dragon video game, the Dullahan is a robotic headless centaur who is the mini-boss on the Road to Jibral.
In the 2006 Seal Online MMORPG, the Dullahan is a monster headless and that's considered as weak monster
In the 2007 Dokapon Kingdom video game, the Dullahan appears as a random enemy.
In the 2007 MMORPG Elsword, the first boss in the Feita area is a headless giant called the Durahan Knight, the spelling changed slightly due to language differences.
In the 2013 addition to the Touhou Project series, "Double Dealing Character", the theme music for a yōkai named Sekibanki (who can detach her head at will) is "Dullahan Under The Willows".
In the Yu-Gi-Oh trading card game Dullahan has a card named in his honour, in the form of Ghostrick Dullahan
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 29, 2014 02:54 PM |
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Edited by RMZ1989 at 14:55, 29 Nov 2014.
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Rakshasa92 said:
People that vote Black Knight are tradition fu'ers and boring people.
Really why would you like a creature that is from D&D mainly? A clone of the Death Knight?
Dullahan, is from mythology, is much more original, the head-in-hands is better than just a skeleton riding a horse. AND DULLAHAN IS NOT A SKELETON!
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Too bad people vote for Black KNight (HORRIBLE STUPID NAME BTW) more.
Maurice said:
And that's also something of a risk when trying to include all sorts of exotic mythological creatures, by the way. There's a group who will likely understand its concept and background, but there will also be a group who hasn't yet come in contact with it and who will therefore not appreciate it in the same way. For instance, LizardWarriors' Romanian Town concept has creatures in it I've never heard of.
Since that group doesn't have the required cultural background, they might actually be turned away from the way those more exotic mythological creatures are integrated in the game, alienating their player base.
Look with people like you the world will never change, we keep being locked with the same boring snow as always, mainly boring medusa, minotaur, harpy, zombie, vampire, werewolf, D&d snow, gobin, giant insects and other such boring uninspired crap that is easy to understand for people with lacking braincells.
Sorry, but i'm sick and tired of simple souls, please be replaced by more original, creative and intelligent souls soon.
I am really wondering for how long will mods let Rakshasa just go around and insult people? His insults are getting worse and worse each day.
It was funny at first, but he has crossed the line multiple times.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted November 29, 2014 03:14 PM |
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Because i'm so mad people make fun of the Dullahan, as it is such a upgrade from the boring D&D Death Knight.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 29, 2014 04:10 PM |
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Rakshasa92 said:
Because i'm so mad people make fun of the Dullahan, as it is such a upgrade from the boring D&D Death Knight.
You know, people can have their opinions. If you are going to be mad every time someone has an opinion different than yours, and every time someone says something you don't like, than forum really isn't a place for you.
Forum is a place for discussion, and right now(and many times before), you aren't discussing anything, you are just insulting because they don't share your point of view(which is nonsense, your opinion isn't better than opinion of someone else).
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted November 29, 2014 04:24 PM |
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RMZ1989 said:
Rakshasa92 said:
Because i'm so mad people make fun of the Dullahan, as it is such a upgrade from the boring D&D Death Knight.
You know, people can have their opinions. If you are going to be mad every time someone has an opinion different than yours, and every time someone says something you don't like, than forum really isn't a place for you.
Forum is a place for discussion, and right now(and many times before), you aren't discussing anything, you are just insulting because they don't share your point of view(which is nonsense, your opinion isn't better than opinion of someone else).
Well my opinion is better than those people that don't give anything a chance because they can't spell its SIMPLE name.
Sorry.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2014 04:26 PM |
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Rakshasa92 said:
Well my opinion is better than those people that don't give anything a chance because they can't spell its SIMPLE name.
Sorry.
No, stop. Your opinion isn't better than anyone's. If they find the name strange, it's okay. But you really need to stop belittling others and insulting them. It's not cool.
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2014 04:28 PM |
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Edited by cleglaw at 16:46, 29 Nov 2014.
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Rakshasa92 said:
People that vote Black Knight are boring.
Really why would you like a creature that is from D&D mainly? A clone of the Death Knight?
Man eater, flesh devourer rabbit sounds original too, but im not in for it. originallity isnt a magical wand making creatures instant-awesome.
see? its easy to understand.
i dont want to see rider holding its own head using its own arm like a handicapped dude. its ridicilous to my point of view. i mean why the hell? and basically that spine-weapon can fit to black knight too.
black knight is an evil undead knight, not really a DnD creature.
btw stop your obsession with anti-DnD, it doesnt make any sense anymore.
i want classic black knight because its damn cool and good and i really want to see it in h7 tech & art. i m not boring or anything like that. i am okay with any kind of new design, as long as it makes sense.
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