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| Thread: Black Knight or Dullahan ? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Darkem
Known Hero
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posted December 04, 2014 04:06 PM |
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I'm glad you like it.
One thing bugs me a little, it the town theme. With "Cult" Necropolis theme there's only a low chance to see a "undead medieval" knight. I cannot imagine headless horseman like this in the town which capitol is a huge pyramid. Not even in Heroes. I can only hope for more Gothic approach (like secret sect residing in the middle of the Holy Empire woods).
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted December 04, 2014 04:16 PM |
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Darkem said:
I'm glad you like it.
One thing bugs me a little, it the town theme. With "Cult" Necropolis theme there's only a low chance to see a "undead medieval" knight. I cannot imagine headless horseman like this in the town which capitol is a huge pyramid. Not even in Heroes. I can only hope for more Gothic approach (like secret sect residing in the middle of the Holy Empire woods).
That isn't necessarily true, just as Haven is different in H7 than what we had in previous games, Necro could also be different.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted December 04, 2014 06:16 PM |
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Darkem said:
Black Knight for the win! However, "Headless horseman" inspired design could be a nice upgrade of this already beloved unit.
I wanted to make fun of community and for once play a role of trickster, but then I realized that I don't like all of those "OMG! Leaked unit! Look! Look!" jokes. So, here it is - this is how I imagine Dread Knight*:
We already know Ubi well so I've added a lot of green, some spider symbols and death haze  .
*Photoshopped
like it lots. would prefer a helm, but a nice version either way. 
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted December 04, 2014 06:18 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Rakshasa92 said:
No, it came from chess. :-p
No. Black knight was mentioned quite a lot in medieval literature, including in (yes, Lizzard_Warrior is right) King Arthur and Ivanhoe. In most medieval legends and literature, Black knight was considered knight, that fall from grace, fallen warrior, and was asociated with death. Basicaly it was evil knight, and his counter was lot of times White knight (yes it exists also). In medieval times all thigs were viewed from religios (cristian) standpoint, and one common theme was good vs. evil, god vs. satan, etc. And white colour was always associated with purity and goodness, while black was associated with death, mourning and sadness. This is so even to this day.
There are several theories as from where these legends originate, and possibly have more than one origins. One of these is that Europeans saw Moorish warriors (who had darker skin), and made them black knights in stories. Stories of how white (cristian) knight defeats black (moorish/arab/turkic) knight, are known, so this is probable.
Other theory suggests, that there were knights, who painted their banners or coats of arms with black colour, to symbolize, that they do not serve particular lord anymore. They roamed about, and served as mercenary soldiers.
Which theory, if any, holds any truth, i can not say, because im no such expert, nor do i claim to be. However, one thing is true, and that is that there were actual historical people who were known as "black knights".
- Edward of Woodstock, Prince of Wales - known as "The Black Prince", as well as the black knight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward,_the_Black_Prince
- James Stewart, the Black Knight of Lorn - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stewart,_the_Black_Knight_of_Lorn
- Zawisza Czarny - Polish knight who was famously known as "the black knight" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zawisza_Czarny
So again ... NO. Black knights dosen't come only from chess, as you sarcasticaly said, nor is your theory that it's derived from Dullahan or D&D somehow true. In fact Dullahan and black knight are completley seperate things, as black knight is not even (in most cases) dead ... or rather "undead".
Black Knights = alive in your theory, SO that means its nothing like the HOMM/D&D Death Knight at all.
The only undead knights are Dullahan in legends, and believe me, I searched a LOT of sites, books and other stuff.
Close comes the Slavic Fext, but they are more modern (with guns) knights that die only by glass. So more lich than death knight.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted December 04, 2014 06:25 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 18:39, 04 Dec 2014.
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Fairy, yes. Rider, yes. Knight, that is debatable.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted December 04, 2014 06:51 PM |
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Rakshasa92 said:
Black Knights = alive in your theory, SO that means its nothing like the HOMM/D&D Death Knight at all.
Exactly. And in H3 it was Black knights in your army lienup, and not Death knights (those were heroes). They can aswell be alive. But 2 diferent things, yes.
Rakshasa92 said:
The only undead knights are Dullahan in legends, and believe me, I searched a LOT of sites, books and other stuff.
Can't say that's not true. Won't argue here. However i strongly belive that modern death knights are based more on Tolkien's Nazguls, from Lord of the Rings, than anything else - as they are undead. Where did Tolkien get inspiration, who knows... could very well be Dullahan, or it could be Black knight ... could be litle of both even - or it could be entierly his own idea, since ... warrior from beyond the grave isn't that difficult to immagine, specialy when you got Vampires and Skeletons.
Edit: and it's also Black knights and not Death knights which this thread is about.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted December 04, 2014 11:22 PM |
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Darkem said:
I'm glad you like it.
One thing bugs me a little, it the town theme. With "Cult" Necropolis theme there's only a low chance to see a "undead medieval" knight. I cannot imagine headless horseman like this in the town which capitol is a huge pyramid. Not even in Heroes. I can only hope for more Gothic approach (like secret sect residing in the middle of the Holy Empire woods).
How about making it ride an undead camel? 
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted December 05, 2014 02:03 AM |
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Edited by TDL at 02:04, 05 Dec 2014.
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I'd rather you discuss about how to get back the cool-looking liches back into the game rather have a heated discussion about a unit which has marginal changes in appearance and might not even make it. Just steal nazguls and have the knight be a hooded creepy wraith on a horse for all I care. The only thing I do care is the usage of the name "dullahan" which just sounds downright unfitting IMHO.
-thread hijacked-
Have this guy on a horse or make it a lich unit as it is supposed to be and Im fine with anything
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted December 05, 2014 02:23 AM |
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Namtaru Keeper
Following the mass extinction of the fate spinners, an entire branch of the Necromancers has devoted itself to the care and protection of the Mother Namtaru. This female exclusive order constant exposure to the mother has grabted them the ability to profecy lesser but akin tho the fate spinners of old.
Hela
Among the Keepers order some are actually selected by the Mother Namtaru herself to be teached by her *insert text that references abilities here*
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cliff_nest
Hired Hero
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posted December 05, 2014 02:45 AM |
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TDL said:
I'd rather you discuss about how to get back the cool-looking liches
+1
TDL said:
Just steal nazguls and have the knight be a hooded creepy
[url=http://www.thelandofshadow.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/AttackWitchKing-1024x759.jpg]+10000000[/url]
I never had anything against the idea but that photoshop really brought me down do earth & I watched Sleepy Hollow last time. Gosh that show sucks balls 
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 05, 2014 08:23 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 08:31, 05 Dec 2014.
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cliff_nest said:
+10000000
Well that pic works for me, aside the sword, thats the one part of the Dullahan I found unique, a whip made of a human backbone (thought with the head on the end to act as a mace is IMO a better idea).
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted December 05, 2014 08:29 AM |
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TDL said:
Have this guy on a horse or make it a lich unit as it is supposed to be and Im fine with anything
Gee, Horned King ripoff much? 
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted December 05, 2014 11:15 AM |
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Sleepy Hollow as the movie from 1999, not the modern series... damn.
Lich = a big no for me, they aren't from myth in the way HOMM uses them, they are 100% D&D creatures, and i'm against those.
This is the Lich from mythology.
Koschei The Deathless
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted December 05, 2014 11:23 AM |
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Dude, nothing about DnD is 100% DnD.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted December 05, 2014 11:34 AM |
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GenyaArikado said:
Namtaru Keeper
Following the mass extinction of the fate spinners, an entire branch of the Necromancers has devoted itself to the care and protection of the Mother Namtaru. This female exclusive order constant exposure to the mother has grabted them the ability to profecy lesser but akin tho the fate spinners of old.
Hela
Among the Keepers order some are actually selected by the Mother Namtaru herself to be teached by her *insert text that references abilities here*
perfect as a "lich". just perfect
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted December 05, 2014 11:54 AM |
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Edited by RMZ1989 at 11:56, 05 Dec 2014.
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Rakshasa92 said:
Sleepy Hollow as the movie from 1999, not the modern series... damn.
Lich = a big no for me, they aren't from myth in the way HOMM uses them, they are 100% D&D creatures, and i'm against those.
This is the Lich from mythology.
Koschei The Deathless
I don't know if you realize that everything was taken from somewhere, Tolkien, mythology, D&D, other games etc. but from wherever it was taken it has been changed a bit. After all, D&D took a ton of mythological creatures and characters and changed them a bit(and renamed some of them) to fit in their universe.
You are saying how we are mythology haters, but we are not... we just aren't obsessed with it. But on the other hand, you are typical D&D hater, as you describe anything that has the slightest connection to D&D bad.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 05, 2014 07:31 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 19:33, 05 Dec 2014.
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As much as I love mythological units, I might never be convinced with any Black Knight replacement.
It is my favorite unit of the town, and only appeared in mighty HOMM-III. Be it for its stunning design or its deathly ability (20% chance of double damage!) this unit has always been in my heart. In my opinion, homm3 had the best Necro lineup ever made so far. Even though I missed the mummies from homm2, the wraith were a good addition, and I found it to be a good move from Nival upgrading them as the top Elite unit in homm5's Necro.
For MMH7 I hope the wishes of the return of the Black Knight will be heard and granted.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 06, 2014 09:56 AM |
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RMZ1989 said:
After all, D&D took a ton of mythological creatures and characters and changed them a bit(and renamed some of them) to fit in their universe.
Changed them a lot in some cases, or renamed them (Catoblepas -> Gorgon, which is technically a completely separate creature).
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted December 06, 2014 12:44 PM |
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MattII said:
RMZ1989 said:
After all, D&D took a ton of mythological creatures and characters and changed them a bit(and renamed some of them) to fit in their universe.
Changed them a lot in some cases, or renamed them (Catoblepas -> Gorgon, which is technically a completely separate creature).
Catoblepas is another creature in D&D, the Gorgon = the Automaton Bull from greek mythology called the Khalkotauroi.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted December 08, 2014 12:50 AM |
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I just hope that if we get the black knight, then the vampire looks different to the last two incarnations. Because rn they are the same minus the horse
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