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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 21, 2016 01:20 PM |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 21, 2016 01:27 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 13:28, 21 Jun 2016.
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Retaliation strike is just too unfairly weak compared to mark of the damned. It pisses me off that 1) it does not trigger on double attacks 2) it can be bypassed by shooting/casting 3) the opponent can choose to ignore your marked unit in most cases. At the same time mark of the damned works on every attack and it cannot be bypassed or ignored. The only way it can turn out more useful is if you only have one unit left and the opponent lacks destructive AND is forced to attack with melee units. High odds of that happening 
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 21, 2016 02:02 PM |
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Elvin said:
Retaliation strike is just too unfairly weak compared to mark of the damned. It pisses me off that 1) it does not trigger on double attacks 2) it can be bypassed by shooting/casting 3) the opponent can choose to ignore your marked unit in most cases. At the same time mark of the damned works on every attack and it cannot be bypassed or ignored. The only way it can turn out more useful is if you only have one unit left and the opponent lacks destructive AND is forced to attack with melee units. High odds of that happening
Along with Unstoppable Charge and Regeneration/Tent, it can be useful to creep melee neutrals. Especially large melee neutrals, using a stack of shooters and a stack of tank units... Definitely limited cases where it can shine but it's not completely useless.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 21, 2016 02:06 PM |
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I am more concerned with hero battles and overall fairness. Crappy nival design..
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted June 21, 2016 04:07 PM |
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I'd be one to suggest that we nuke the ability completely and replace it with something else...but I don't know what.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 21, 2016 04:53 PM |
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It would be possible to reorganize combat perks as follows:
remove unstoppable charge
chain attack->stunning strike
critical hit->retaliation strike->preparation
avenging strike->another statbooster skill
this way the middle perk is much more useful and ret. strike will serve as payoff before preparation.
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MMH5.5 Downloads | MMH5.5 Translations | MMH5.5 FAQ
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 21, 2016 05:48 PM |
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If we're considering shuffling the perks, I will suggest the following:
chain attack->avenging strike
retaliation strike->unstoppable charge->preparation
critical hit->stunning strike
AND improve stunning strike ATB effect.
I'm basically suggesting to move Critical Hit back and swap Avenging and Stunning. This way,
1) A buffed-up Stunning Strike becomes the high-prize in that line, where Retaliation Strike is helped by Critical Hit.
2)Chain+Avenging is very powerful in themselves, being able to use both at the same time.
3)Unstoppable+Preparation is just fine as a Defensive strategy. If you want to improve it, you can remove the -2 attack penalty, but probably not necessary.
Why the change? Because currently, Avenging+Critical is too weak compared to other lines...
I personally don't find another stat boosting perk any interesting. It's actually very boring... 
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 21, 2016 06:12 PM |
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No, I think that is a terrible idea having all active abilities in one branch + the whole point was people not being stuck with ret strike in the middle.
you will never take av strike if you already have ret strike+chain att, you must have something to improve the hit.
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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted June 21, 2016 06:17 PM |
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Edited by Gidoza at 18:23, 21 Jun 2016.
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magnomagus said:
It would be possible to reorganize combat perks as follows:
remove unstoppable charge
chain attack->stunning strike
critical hit->retaliation strike->preparation
avenging strike->another statbooster skill
this way the middle perk is much more useful and ret. strike will serve as payoff before preparation.
As suggested, I can't see myself ever taking the statbooster skill, as other options would always be way better unless that statbooster was unreasonably better than we usually see. And hopefully preparation wouldn't have the -2 attack.
Speaking of which: I see why preparation has the -2 attack now, and I'd like to suggest an amendment IF it's possible: what if the -2 attack only applied when the Defend command was used?
Quote:
If we're considering shuffling the perks, I will suggest the following:
chain attack->avenging strike
retaliation strike->unstoppable charge->preparation
critical hit->stunning strike
AND improve stunning strike ATB effect.
I'm basically suggesting to move Critical Hit back and swap Avenging and Stunning. This way,
1) A buffed-up Stunning Strike becomes the high-prize in that line, where Retaliation Strike is helped by Critical Hit.
2)Chain+Avenging is very powerful in themselves, being able to use both at the same time.
3)Unstoppable+Preparation is just fine as a Defensive strategy. If you want to improve it, you can remove the -2 attack penalty, but probably not necessary.
Why the change? Because currently, Avenging+Critical is too weak compared to other lines...
I personally don't find another stat boosting perk any interesting. It's actually very boring...
I guess I should weigh in here on observations.
1. No point in taking Retaliation Strike with Stunning Strike, as the creature just retaliated upon will have no ATB left to stun.
2. This makes Chain Attack an automatic choice if Crit/Stun is taken.
3. Given the value of Critical Strike, I would imagine that Retaliation Strike is out of the question if the Chain Attack/Avenging Strike path is chosen.
4. Thus the final conclusion is that Retaliation Strike is only going to end up getting chosen if one is heading to preparation; it otherwise has no value. I don't necessarily see a problem with this, but it's not very interesting, anyways.
I'm thinking maybe Preparation should only have a single prerequisite, and keep the global -2 attack factor. Tripling up one of the other sets seems to make more sense, considering their serious co-dependency. Actually, it would be cool if Retaliation Strike gave a larger-than-usual Hero Level bonus to increase its damage to mitigate the difference between it and Chain/Avenging, and then have Critical Strike as part of the set, to make it do insanely stupid damage on limited occasions. It's an idea, but not necessarily a good one. 
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 21, 2016 06:36 PM |
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^ I think you missed that with that arrangement, heroes will already start with retaliation strike, which is also the case now...
Two active abilities in one branch... ok, I admit, it won't work.
But I really think a stat boost perk will make things boring, and probably it won't be popular, although it depends on what the stat boost is...
I'm starting to think that the current arrangement is just fine, but Critical Hit should be improved to 70%. I know Chain Attack adds 10% but you cannot take Chain along with Critical, so it's moot.
Why is it an issue to start with Retaliation Strike, I don't understand. What matters is the balance between the branches. Currently, I think Avenging+Critical branch is too weak compared to others, and that's the only problem.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 21, 2016 06:52 PM |
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here are some variations that did not exist before:
The statboost skill could be +1 Attack and +1 Defense and double that if the hero reaches level 20.
or it could be +2 Defense and +10% magic proof if the hero has positive luck.
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Eadan
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 21, 2016 07:05 PM |
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I have just started playing this mod after playing H5 7? years ago. Is there a source where I can learn what creature abilities do and other information about this mod or should I read manual for h5 and then read the changelogs for this mod?
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 21, 2016 07:23 PM |
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Eadan
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 21, 2016 07:38 PM |
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magnomagus said:
the H5 manual will have lots of outdated info, just read the skillwheel and creature abilities ingame.
I am interested in information like how attack and defense stats work and similar things.
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted June 21, 2016 07:39 PM |
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@magno
I have just translated 1.8 version to Czech.
I have also changed the way how to download the files a bit (for the people who have not downloaded any previous Czech version) to avoid confusion.
Could you please upload both files to moddb.com?
Update file 1.8
This version is for the people who only need to update the version
Whole Czech translation including 1.8
This version is for the people who have never installed any previous version of H5.5 in Czech and therefore they will have to download some more files. More detailed guided in Czech for those people is on Worldofheroes.cz
Both files are zipped 
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 21, 2016 08:08 PM |
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@Antalyan: ok first that classes file has to go, I'm sorry i forgot to move them to the txt.pak but it doesn't matter, remove all .xdb files in that .pak and only keep the txt files and add them to the MMH55-Text-CZ.pak
never add .xdb files to translations, this can cause all kinds of bugs and incompatibilities!
To save people extra trouble i recommend merging the campaign txt in the MMH55-Text-CZ.pak as well, so only the dialogs need to be downloaded separately.
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 21, 2016 08:55 PM |
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Eadan said:
magnomagus said:
the H5 manual will have lots of outdated info, just read the skillwheel and creature abilities ingame.
I am interested in information like how attack and defense stats work and similar things.
How Attack and Defense stats work is also described in the skillwheel. Just hover over the hero primary skill icons for attack and defense. Similar information is there also for knowledge and spellpower...
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Eadan
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 21, 2016 09:21 PM |
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Edited by Eadan at 21:22, 21 Jun 2016.
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thGryphn said:
How Attack and Defense stats work is also described in the skillwheel. Just hover over the hero primary skill icons for attack and defense. Similar information is there also for knowledge and spellpower...
I didn't see the damage calculation in the previous version but I can find it now in the latest version. Thanks.
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Skeggy
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 21, 2016 09:38 PM |
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magnomagus said:
It would be possible to reorganize combat perks as follows:
remove unstoppable charge
chain attack->stunning strike
critical hit->retaliation strike->preparation
avenging strike->another statbooster skill
this way the middle perk is much more useful and ret. strike will serve as payoff before preparation.
Chain attack -> stunning strike is already excellent combination, and critical hit in the middle is only going to make it more excellent.
As for the middle line development, if unstoppable charge is going away, I suppose it would be nice to boost retaliation strike from +3 bonus to level, to let’s say +5 bonus to level, or, if it is possible, to replace it with Pounder feature, that would either enable Pounder ability (hero can perform one special melee attack right at the beginning of combat), or it would just boost hero attack for every few levels of the hero. Already existing Pounder Heroes would just receive either another attack at the beginning, or additional attack boost.
Third line, is really interesting, since avenging strike (former Mark of the Damned) offers punishment for all actions, and therefore is perceptively attractive. So, if it is possible, ‘another statbooster skill’ could be ability to mark two avenging targets, or, to additionally boost one mark of the avenger, from +3 bonus to level, to additional + 7 bonus.
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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted June 21, 2016 09:44 PM |
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thGryphn said:
^ I think you missed that with that arrangement, heroes will already start with retaliation strike, which is also the case now...
Two active abilities in one branch... ok, I admit, it won't work.
But I really think a stat boost perk will make things boring, and probably it won't be popular, although it depends on what the stat boost is...
I'm starting to think that the current arrangement is just fine, but Critical Hit should be improved to 70%. I know Chain Attack adds 10% but you cannot take Chain along with Critical, so it's moot.
Why is it an issue to start with Retaliation Strike, I don't understand. What matters is the balance between the branches. Currently, I think Avenging+Critical branch is too weak compared to others, and that's the only problem.
I realize that Heroes start with Retaliation Strike - one of my previous suggestions was to remove this, because it is the worst possible skill to start with...
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