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| Thread: Your opinion about the Tactics skill (HOMM 3) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 01, 2015 02:32 PM |
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Your opinion about the Tactics skill (HOMM 3)
I would like to hear your opinion about the Tactics skill.
It seems like most people think it's a very good skill and maybe it is, I just don't like it. The maps I play tend to have hundreds of battles and it just gets tiresome and boring to arrange you troops in every battle. (I know I don't need to do it every battle, but then it just seems like a wasted skill to me)
I tend to avoid heroes starting with Tactics skill and ever learning Tactics. As I said I know the skill is pretty good, I just don't wanna bother with it. (As awesome of a hero Gunnar is, I don't choose him because of Tactics)
I have considered dissabling the skill and replacing Tactics with Offense, Armorer or Leadership, depending on the hero, but that'll make the heroes more similar and end in less diversity, so I'm not sure what to do...
Well enough of my jibber-jabber tell me what you think of the Tactics skill.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted October 01, 2015 02:44 PM |
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You are underestimating the skill. Of course, it may not be much when the whole army is consisted of flyers and fast creatures, but for the start or in the middle of the game, it certainly helps to beat all those shooters. That is, unless you have mass Haste.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 01, 2015 02:55 PM |
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No, as I said I know the skill is good, I just don't wanna bother with it...
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted October 01, 2015 03:23 PM |
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I guess what you need is the ability to create some standard positions and save it to some memory so all you've to do is to change initial position before starting the battle if you need it.
It's something the game already has and tactics could be a way to create default positions in stead of creating it (and those few others you may need) again and again every single time.
On the other hand, I'm surprised it's that big of a bother. 
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 01, 2015 03:37 PM |
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Yeah, probably just me being strange, but half the Overlords and Planeswalkers starts with it, leaving me only few heroes to choose from. Doing the same thing over and over for hundreds of battles doest'nt appeal much to me, unlike Offense and Armorer, which I know I can automatically use in every battle.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 04:12 PM |
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In WoG, when I have an army where all creatures have no retaliation, attack all around and fly (if not attack&return, too) and I have the Axe in an Offense specialist along with the Cape of Velocity, the Wayfarer ring and the Necklace of Swiftness, I find Tactics very boring. But when I am creeping early game with Castle, Stronghold, Rampart, Tower, Dungeon and Conflux I found out it saves me some creatures, so I pick it.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 01, 2015 04:41 PM |
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Tower emphasizes archery, slow races as Stronghold or Fortress emphasize tactics. When you don't move first, tactics can make a huge difference, by protecting key stacks. I think the best answer to such questions is to play quality maps, where natural fighting skills + magic schools are required for survival, not for fancy DD or TP. Try Wayfarer, Xiedu, Lord of Rings (chinese version) then you will be fixed.
And Gunnar is an awesome hero btw. Not surprising he is banned from MP.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 01, 2015 05:08 PM |
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Okay, thanks for the answers guys. Still don't know what to do about the skill, don't think I'll ever become a big fan of it though...
I also think it can be a disadvantage to try to gather your creatures or block shooters, cause it will just attract chain lightnings, meteor showers, infernos, if not expert berserks. Also creatures like dragons, phoenixes, liches, magogs, hydras, magic elementals and cerberi can hit more of your creatures...
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 05:42 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Also creatures like dragons, phoenixes, liches, magogs, hydras, magic elementals and cerberi can hit more of your creatures...
Or you can use brain an place them a square distance to avoid breath attack and move them away from war machines so cloud of death can't affect them, etc...
Salamandre said:
Fortress emphasize tactics
I guess so but I would be lying if I said that cause I hardly succed to use Tactics with strong melee oriented armies (except straight forward Stronghold, of course).
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 01, 2015 06:21 PM |
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That is because (from what I've seen from your screens) you go for OP very soon, by editing, modding etc. If you go the neutral way, where you have to build your behemots + castle day 7 without any scripts or bonuses, you will see how first week combats need a lot of planning and heroes skills switch.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 10:07 PM |
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If you know that tactics is useful, but don't use it, then I'm fine with that. You are free to play as badly or suboptimally as you want to.
But to adress the question, it obviously depends on the type of scenario. In competetive multiplayer tactics is very useful early game (to kite and to block shooters faster), fairly useful middle game(same uses, but you have alternatives) and decent in late game. You would love to hide your powerstacks from those pesky archangels on the first turn, wouldn't you? Also, in final battle it can be a gamechanger. If opponent has speed advantage, but you have army advantage, having tactics when he does not will be a gamechanger.
Cheers
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 01, 2015 10:28 PM |
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Kicferk said:
If you know that tactics is useful, but don't use it, then I'm fine with that. You are free to play as badly or suboptimally as you want to.
But to adress the question, it obviously depends on the type of scenario. In competetive multiplayer tactics is very useful early game (to kite and to block shooters faster), fairly useful middle game(same uses, but you have alternatives) and decent in late game. You would love to hide your powerstacks from those pesky archangels on the first turn, wouldn't you? Also, in final battle it can be a gamechanger. If opponent has speed advantage, but you have army advantage, having tactics when he does not will be a gamechanger.
Cheers
Yeah, you are right and good example with the Arch Angels. Guess I'm just to lazy to use it, it takes too much time to do this in every battle and I don't play competitive multiplayer. Wish the skill somehow worked differently...
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draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 10:53 PM |
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When I get bored of tactics during the game, I'll usually just enable auto-combat, let the PC move the units for me, then turn off auto-combat.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 01, 2015 11:45 PM |
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 01, 2015 11:59 PM |
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@Draco Interesting, does the ai know how to place the units well or can you do it better yourself? If you use auto combat in tactics phase, does it automatically start combat or do you start combat manually? Might have to test this a little.
Just tested it, it transitions into auto-combat automatically, potentially letting the ai do a stupid move for you, which is not good.
@Salamandre But what is the point of disabling it, then the skill is wasted? Yes you can toggle it on/off as you see fit, but that's also annoying.
I mostly see Tactics as an early game advantage and if you have mass haste, slow, blind or berserk the skill might not do much for you anyway. Guess I'll just keep not using Tactics.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 02, 2015 12:17 AM |
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Salamandre said:
That is because (from what I've seen from your screens) you go for OP very soon, by editing, modding etc.
Sorry, I was talking of the rare (and only for learning/testing purposes cause I hate it, the reason why I love WoG so much) ocasions where I played MP or without altering the map but when I said "straight forward Stronghold" that includes spliting, lure and suck retal, of course. Only you don't have to think too much, cause their speed, attack and Offense are their strenghts, so is suck retal, attack with melee units, run.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 02, 2015 01:21 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
@Salamandre But what is the point of disabling it, then the skill is wasted?
Well, he said he is bored late game and he goes autocombat because of tactics. That is a bit extreme and risky, you can just disable them in hero screen. Beside, at a point in game when you are too strong for neutrals you can disable tactics for next easy battles, just to save time. Then enable again for key battles. With all tweaks, as removing combat music introduction, speeding animations, I noticed you can save up to 5-10 hours/game, depending on map size. That's a lot.
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Era II mods and utilities
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BlackMagik
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 02, 2015 03:39 PM |
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Personally, I don't like the way it's implemented. Traditionally, tactical skill is a measure of a commanders battle savvy, the experience of his/her troops, and use of terrain.
In HOMM3, you get the first (ie 3 levels of skill); unit experience is not a part of the game; and use of terrain is minimal the way maps are constructed.
Basically, Tactics allows you to cover your shooters, and stuff the remainder of your troops into the opponents face. Seeing as how many battles are a simple bum-rush (ie mass Haste), there is no true maneuvering before battle is joined.
Larger battle maps (or reduced movement numbers) would've introduced true tactical maneuver into the game. Only with fast-movers, some speed-bonus items, mass Haste, and a hero like Mullich could you get troops engaged from the very first turn.
Maneuver adds another layer of enjoyment to a battle, IMHO, like what can be had in such games as FF Tactics, or Tactics Ogre.
I never choose Tactics for a hero's skill unless I'm forced to choose between it and some garbage skill like Eagle Eye or Mysticism.
My 2cents.....
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 02, 2015 06:30 PM |
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Thank you, glad I'm not the only one who feel that way.
I am considering replacing all heroes starting with Tactics with Offense or Armorer or maybe Wisdom as you'll need it anyway. It will however still be possible to learn Tactics on the map.
But the skill ranks low on my list, because it is so boring to use battle after battle. It's does'nt really have much to do with tactics either, more like a pre-emptive strike...
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 02, 2015 07:44 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Thank you, glad I'm not the only one who feel that way.
Well, like the french say: "un sot trouve toujours un autre sot qui le admire".
If you search long enouch you will also find someone saying that go for Capitol first is a winning technique, doesn't mean it's true.
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