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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 07, 2016 01:43 AM |
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Religion is just a concept. I think if your are powerful enough you could create your own. The one that will make your ass and asses of all your snowty offsprings warm when the winter comes  I hate when people are so dumb to kill. snow you and go to hell.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 07, 2016 02:06 AM |
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Zenofex said:
Well, try to explain what is Son of God if you can't explain what is God. Can you?
Son is the very first living creature there has ever been, before our universium even started (big bang if you will). This creature had all dna what in our world today has and everything existential has born or created from this creature. This creature also created human from words what we know as dna, lots of 01010011 running there, programmed in our core.
When the first living thing created something, it should have been good as the creator had all the knowlage what has born/made, all the physics laws and moral laws where perfect. Now people where programmed as "free" learn yourself being. One creature rebelled these morals and started to build it's own rules as anti-free duche bag. Now unfortunate human was targeted and slaved by this evil, let's call him Jar Jar, yeah i know, how rude! Little did poor human fellow knew that he was sold his soul to Jar Jar. Now the creator had a problem, even if it hold the ©, human was Jar Jar's legally and when you have made the rules yourself it would be bad to break them yourself.
Then this omnipotent creature tough of something! Can I make a rock what is so big that I can't self lift it? Hmm.. Quite difficult task. Rock what is so heavy that I can't lift it? That would be a sinner, because my rules would mean nothing if a bad man could walk in my heavenly kingdom. Did i forgot to mention, awesome creature has it's own unique 'universum like' place called heaven, multiple heavens infact in multiple universes, okay back to story. Yes, can't have this human walking in my palace, what would Gabriel say anyway. Can't lift that rock, so check. How do I make the rock when.. Hey, I know! I must become ant myself! Wait, an ant? Yeah, have you not heard of a man who was sitting in a pulpet while ants where crossing the table, man shouted: Don't go that way, it's certain death! How much the man shouted the ants did not listen or understanded, until the man turned himself to an ant. That's what I need to do whit humans, said the awesome creator. Arc Angel Michael try'd to "speak some sense": Borning from virgin might be risky and maybe I could deal whit this Jar Jar Stinks myself, once and for all. No, that's not our way, said the creator.
Creator selected that main part of His body what should stay in kingdom where he ruled the all existence and smaller part of His body he send in small planet called the earth. To travel, nothing goes like The Spirit. Faster than human eye and quicker than idea and smoother than car sellers tongue. Zillion times faster than light, Holy Spirit landed on girl named Mary. Time started to move really slowly the next 9 months but eventually our Creator was back in the game. 30 years later, Son of Man took the penalty behalf whole humankind. Become basically 'a sin' himself even not making a single one. The Rock what is bigger, that you can't lift it, where basically created and by this Rock everyone who beliaves and trust Him where and are lifted in a higher realm.
I have countered this Son (Creator) person many times. Few times visible in spirit, not material. Always very light, calming apperance, often life changin experiences. Nothing to do whit mental, wishful thinking, sure life struggles in backround but thats life. Most counters are from bible. Now it's certain that this book's 'author' is the same from what Spirit I have had after saying Yes, to Jesus. Many confuses spiritual book talks about spirituality/God like it would be a manual, rather than being "the thing" itself. When you have Spirit of God, it's like it goes On itself and explains itself. You can have a real relationship whit a Living God but before you born-again, accept Jesus, be child of God, what ever name you call it. Don't have the Spirit, it's only dead letter to you.
Descripe the Son? What can I say. When all your hopes vanishes, this stays, He stays. Your family may turn against you, He will not. You might not had a perfect life but He is the only perfect thing in your life. You might not have great fate, great hope, great love, but He exels in them all and is willing to share. Father you never had, Brother you always wished, Friend you can always trust. What there is more to ask, just ask.
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Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
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Svartzorn
Known Hero
Dead struggling with death.
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posted January 07, 2016 02:35 AM |
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@Neraus: sure thing, dude. You can download a decent and broad collection of early church fathers here.
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Death to the world.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 07, 2016 10:41 AM |
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Svartzorn said:
Zenofex never heard of Origen, Saint Augustine... I'm not even quoting other names. He probably never heard of the development of the scholastic philosophy. It's not me who has to go back to HS.
Stop making a fool of yourself, man.
I've actually not only "heard" of them but also read some things from them. And from other Christian theologians/philosophers. Stop embarrassing yourself with stupid presumptions.
@Homer, will answer you later.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 07, 2016 11:23 AM |
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Edited by artu at 12:14, 07 Jan 2016.
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Neraus said:
@artu
I mentioned Renaissance art as an example of how Christianity wasn't as oppressive as flaunted.
The other point is that Kant's line of reasoning couldn't have been the same if he didn't live as the historical Kant, if you were just changing his religion, I would be more inclined to agree, but since you posited another chain of events the result wouldn't be the same. Now I see that you were talking about how he doesn't derive his philosophy from Christianity, but the point you miss is that he is tangentially related to Christianity, even if there is no causality they still dabbled in the previous philosophy, as I said, if only to criticize it, and so there is a relation.
The amount in which we measure how much Christianity contributed to the development of modern philosophy may be debated, but it did contribute.
The what if scenario was in regards to Constantine not adopting Christianity by the way.
Why should Christian authorities oppress Renaissance art? In most cases, they were the ones paying for it. That art is the visualization of Christian dogma. That would be like expecting Hitler to ban Mein Kampf.
The rest, I explained earlier. Apart from Ancient Greece which predates Christianity by centuries (and which was influential in the East as well as the West, it was the the Arabic translations of their work right before Renaissance, that made them popular again in the West), there is a certain period when Western philosophy becomes significantly strong and different. However, that period is defined by the arrival of secularism and religious dogma being able to be questioned. The Scholastics or other theologians who framed their thinking by religion are not what distinguish Western philosophy from the rest of the world, you have similar medieval thinkers in Islam and in Far East. Theology is philosophy in ball and chains, it can never really take off and fly, simply because some conclusions will always be restricted and considered heresy.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Svartzorn
Known Hero
Dead struggling with death.
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posted January 07, 2016 02:13 PM |
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Then it's actually worse that you've read them and deny their role in late antique philosophy.
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Death to the world.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 07, 2016 02:28 PM |
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Do quote the place where I say that please.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 07, 2016 02:40 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 14:42, 07 Jan 2016.
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Christianity was perverted many times until now. The original meaning is almost faded away. Common people just use it in the way that comforts their souls that are full of sins. I can't answer certain questions about this world, so I am, too, the target for those who can provide me such answers. Well, I don't know why I'm here, yet I hate when some people tell me fake stories.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted January 07, 2016 02:52 PM |
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Fake stories? Are there any true ones? 
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 07, 2016 03:09 PM |
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I'm sure I was told some.
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted January 07, 2016 03:10 PM |
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artu said:
Why should Christian authorities oppress Renaissance art? In most cases, they were the ones paying for it. That art is the visualization of Christian dogma. That would be like expecting Hitler to ban Mein Kampf.
Then you're missing the point, I'll go with an example, Sandro Botticelli and his Spring and the birth of Venus.
Both works of art are pagan in theme, they are filled with neo-platonic symbolism, yet they weren't persecuted for not portraying Christian themes.
And Caravaggio blatantly went against the Church guidelines regarding art, he portrayed dirty feet in a painting destined for a Marian sanctuary, something that at the time was considered akin to sacrilege, without counting his habit of using snows as the pose template of the Virgin Mary or beggars as the template for Saints, etc...
Actually, now that I think of it, Renaissance art had many works that were pagan in theme, and others that were secular in origin, as it was largely inspired by Humanism.
The most the Church did to works of art was the cutting of the penis on some statues and covering the bare breasts on some paintings, as to not be "offensive to the eye".
Renaissance art isn't a visualization of the Christian dogma, which by the way would be incorrect to say it so broadly anyway.
I think you discount too much the influence of Christianity on later thinkers, but alright, I won't go further in this, since I don't know modern philosophy in depth.
____________
Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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markmasters
Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
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posted January 07, 2016 03:11 PM |
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There van never be a thread about christianity wthout someone letting them know they think it's nonesne right?  (or the other way around for that matter).
A lot of the things in the bible are actualy proven to be true. Some things are hard to imagine, i'm astounded people cannot believe the miracles that happened those days.
Now If you lived 400 year ago and I would have told you about a 'television'. You would probably have thought it was some kind of weird magic that can't be real. However look what we achieved now....Is it really that impossible that odd things happened back then?
Now to the matter of evolution etc. As a student in wildlife i know evolutionary changes occur (if a species has to survive someway). I know we can go back in time quite a bit to find out about previous species and such, but I don't really think people can 100% acuuratly tell what happened 10000's of years ago. We prove it with 'science' and 'math'. Funny, since we made those numbers up ourselves as well. especially math is a human creation.
All i'm saying, show a little respect, believe what you want to believe, but don't come here saying OMG YOU GUYS BELIEVE FAKE STORIES.
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Svartzorn
Known Hero
Dead struggling with death.
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posted January 07, 2016 04:10 PM |
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Zeno, just say you hate christianity and we'll drop the case. We all know it's the truth.
Say: Zornie, honey, I hate christianity.
Alex's comments are not even worth reading.
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Death to the world.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 07, 2016 04:21 PM |
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Quote:
Alex's comments are not even worth reading.
That's what I call being arrogant.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted January 07, 2016 04:49 PM |
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Well to me, non-religious people are arrogant as well.
We're not so different after all. All human.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 07, 2016 04:56 PM |
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I read both the Old and New Testaments. I really enjoy the reading. If you think God left my heart for good, you're wrong. But I hate when the words are being interpreted.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted January 07, 2016 05:00 PM |
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I understand that. I think the many confusing and conflicting interpretations come from humans and many used the Bible to mean what they wanted it.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 07, 2016 05:19 PM |
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By the way, I doubt any modern American can distinctly tell what really the inscription "In God We Trust" on dollar bills means.
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted January 07, 2016 08:28 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
I read both the Old and New Testaments. I really enjoy the reading. If you think God left my heart for good, you're wrong. But I hate when the words are being interpreted.
I struggle to see how it is possible to read the Bible literally, there are things that need to be interpreted.
And that's also the reason I'm against translating the Bible, it should have stayed in its first Greek inception (Well, grammatically corrected of course ), when translating, a word's meaning may deceive the author.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 07, 2016 08:29 PM |
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Svartzorn said:
Zeno, just say you hate christianity and we'll drop the case. We all know it's the truth.
And why should I help you get out of this with even a little dignity?  You totally fail to participate in the discussion and try to sneak out with what little is left of your default Internet coherence (generously granted out of basic politeness to everyone, usually undeservedly) by antagonising me. Sorry to disappoint you, I don't "hate" Christianity. Now you can go back at failing if you want.
@Homer, frankly I'm not sure you understood the question. I asked you if you can describe what is Son of God if you can't describe what is God. Yes or no? Then we'll get to the rest.
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This thread is pages long: 
