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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 03, 2015 01:23 PM |
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Every religious text is like that. Or should I say, compilations of religious texts. That's what the Bible is.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 03, 2015 01:35 PM |
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and that's my point. that every religious text is so fraught with errors, as to be rendered moot. and yet, people have faith that their texts are correct, and not only that, the words of a god.
no one should build a belief from such a faulty foundation. it isn't logical.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 03, 2015 01:47 PM |
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Isaac life was never in danger. If Abraham would not be obeying that order, God would not abandon him either. Abraham was in significant place in God's plans. He had Isaac at old age as a promise from God. Now the test where, do you beliave that promise. That there will be grandchilds like stars in the sky. Now, Abraham is know as man of Trust/Belief in God. Before time of old testament law. He's presented as faith what we should put on God in hard decisions in life. Abraham beliaved God and God call him righteousness. Now this is example for Christians, beliave and trust God.
Isaac was a symbol of sacrifice. Now God knew He would send His own Son in earth and He would be sacrificed for whole humankind. When Abraham was ready to sacrifice Isaac, God stopped Him and showed, look there is a lamb and Abraham sacrificed the lamb instead. The lamb of God, what is Jesus. Old Testament is full of teachings what leads, connection to Jesus, very powerfull stuff!
Now, where the God good for making this kinda test? You gotta understand He tested Abraham and not yours idea of right and wrong. If you would ask Abraham, where God right to do this. He would say, yes I needed that test to have complete faith on Him, that my life and future generations are in His hand. This was no everyday trial, you really gotta see the big picture. God says he never put His childrens over the limits.
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Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 03, 2015 02:12 PM |
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if god is omni-whatever, then he would already know who is faithful and who isn't. there would be no need to put anyone through such nonsense. if you are capable of creating life itself, and creating powerful dna(as you believe), then how could that same being not know what is in his own creations?
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 03, 2015 05:36 PM |
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Yes, God knows the future but I don't beliave everything is set. There is always the random factor what comes down to humans at least  Perhaps God knew what Abraham would do, but the test where also for Abraham. Don't you trust me, Abraham? It's hard for us to let go. Faith is hard but it also comes from God.
What I mean by that everything is not set, is that there can be multiple possible futures and everything is 'alive', this is just my theory, nothing biblical about it.
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Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 03, 2015 09:02 PM |
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The point in most if not all religions, is faith. Believing what you can't prove and observe, more or less.
Mark Twain said: Faith is believing what you know it ain't so.
To me faith is just like trust, if you knew 100% you can rely on something or some One, it would no longer be called trust, you would simply have to believe it. Thus, faith is like trust.
Now, that there are many religions is another thing. I presume we accept that Christianity is the one.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted December 03, 2015 09:08 PM |
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Do you guys ever doubt your faith?
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 03, 2015 09:10 PM |
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I doubt all the time. Anyone who says he never did, I don't believe him.
The apostles doubted too, before He sent them the Holy Spirit, if we go by the book.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 03, 2015 09:38 PM |
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Minion said:
Do you guys ever doubt your faith?
Of course. Sometimes you find it really hard to 'have faith'. There can be thinks you even don't understand. If you are asking, do I ever doubt any of this are really true: Well, maybe but then again I have witnessed it in so many levels in my life that I can't doubt existence of God or His goodness. Even as a believer you do want things to be logical, even if mind can't combrehend all of it. That everything is TRUE, not only in small mind of yours is most important, you gotta ask yourself: Is what aim beliaving at, justified. In all honesty and wits, can you say you beliave all this? Answer is yes. I have looked this in many angle and the conclusion is always the same I beliave because it is the Truth.
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Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 03, 2015 09:58 PM |
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@ Homer171
I finf your answer very unsatisfactory, because I answered it already in my post:
Quote:
it would still be a test failed, because IN TRUTH, Abraham might say in this case, I will go ahead with the sacrifice, but only because I trust I won't have to go through with it.
The test is, whether Abraham will obey BLINDLY, because a God can ask blind obedience.
In fact, this is what god says to Abraham afterwards (he has OBEYED).
God wants humans to do what he wants them to do - he manipulates them, even though he washed his hands off them, exiling them after they disobeyed. Disobeying God (not doing what he wants) is "sin".
Anyway - I will drop out again and leave this thread to all your Christians, so you can continue your fight whose denomination got it right. 
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 03, 2015 10:15 PM |
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It is not logical and that is what religions are about - doing something because X, Y, Z - either for God, or some other reason, like for karma and reincarnation, which I personally find impossible to believe, but if I was born in a country which was Hindu and/or Buddhist zone, never say never.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 03, 2015 11:37 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Abraham might say in this case, I will go ahead with the sacrifice, but only because I trust I won't have to go through with it. The test is, whether Abraham will obey BLINDLY, because a God can ask blind obedience.
Well, he didn't  No where he could have guessed that he don't go through it. It's not like a gamble, maybe God will spare my child.. He really think, He will gonna sacrifice His son as God asked. The thing is, you don't know. That's faith, it's not just stupid optimistic. Test never failed. God often 'tests' our faith, I have experienced that, we might not like it, but it sure throw us closer to God and that's the point and that is worth it.
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Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted December 04, 2015 12:51 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 01:05, 04 Dec 2015.
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As I've said before, God is indeed all knowing. But God also lives each and every moment of time, so he "experiences" things too. So he had the intellectual knowledge of what would happen but Abraham had to actually obey for God to experience the obedience.
Also, the Hebrew word translated "know" is "yada", the same word used when the Bible says Adam "knew" Eve. Adam had an intimate relationship with Eve.
God is all about living relationships, not head knowledge. God is spiritually Father only to those who will be sons/daughters. Jesus said he "knows" his sheep (John 10:27) and his sheep know him. He has a relationship with them.
Quote:
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Jesus said on the day of judgment he'll say to many who confess him as Lord, "Depart from me, you who work iniquity, I never knew you." Not that he will not have a clue about who the person is or what he did in life but that the person never had a relationship with Jesus. He never "knew" Jesus and Jesus never "knew" him. (Matthew 7:23, paraphrased)
We are told in Hebrews (Hebrews 11:17-19) that Abraham believed God's promises (which needed a living Isaac) and believed that God would raise Isaac from the dead if necessary to fulfill those promises. So, on that mountain God experienced Abraham's faith and Abraham experienced God's faithfulness.
On the mountain God "knew" Abraham and Abraham "knew" God. God declared Abraham righteous because of that "work" wrought by Abraham's faith (James 2:21-23) and Abraham became a "friend of God." This was a defining moment in Abraham's life and a landmark on the road of salvation.
Abraham effectively offered up himself that day. Abraham's entire future, hopes, and dreams and promises from God lay in Isaac. This was a prophetic picture (called a "type") of the day when God would "provide himself a lamb" (Genesis 22:8) by manifesting himself as the man Jesus Christ and sacrificing himself for us on that very mountain.
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Revelation
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 04, 2015 06:24 AM |
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Thanks Elodin that was very clearly said 
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Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted December 04, 2015 08:10 AM |
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Edited by markkur at 08:15, 04 Dec 2015.
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Every time a discussion about Faith in Christ here at HC goes this route;
Someone that is "somewhat" respectful of Christians (after all we are not here talking about Judaism) will post a couple of times. The more the first sort posts, the sooner someone that shows respect equal to a Gnat starts doing the "drive-bys" and then, and not long, many posts, if not all, become not Questions but "all-Self-knowing statements and Slams".
As I have said a few times, it becomes a long-winded argument about the O.T. and to derail the topic it must be so. To a point it can/should reside there but it seems the points are seldom ever about Christ, his ministry, or more importantly what he said and why.
The thread is "talking about Christianity and yet <imo> we do that very little here or anywhere in a secular setting because we are not allowed to. I helped at an on-line Christian community of believers that were about helping each other, not to plan for Heaven but live a Christian life in a very hostile world. Guess what? We had many people that would join the forum only to spout venom. I remember one Crusader, his name was Reality-"*" * = omitted because he deserved no applause. After about a year, I was finally able to get him to leave, once I explained he was "wasting his valuable time" and should be improving the world with his vast knowledge.
If anyone here joins the family and follows Christ, they will soon see this world a tad different.
@ Minion
Since you asked a good question about if we doubt; I can only answer for myself but Yes at times through 35 years I have doubted. I will guess, depending on the Christian (read what Christ said about Seeds), sooner or later they will stop doubting and realize that Faith is a trust. Thinned-out more, it is a belief in a promise and the promise of belief, fulfilled. And believe it or not, Faith can and is very often fulfilled. About the "biggy" Heaven, that is yet to be determined.
Edit= Funny how important the tiny word "or" is.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 04, 2015 08:31 AM |
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Markkur, I am pleased to be on the same forum with Christians such as you and Elodin and Homer, and yes Svartzorn and Neraus as well, you all know your stuff, even if we don't agree all the time;
And JJ is a top poster, always brings something to the table that makes me want to think more. I can see where he's coming from.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted December 04, 2015 08:41 AM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
Markkur, I am pleased to be on the same forum with Christians such as you and Elodin and Homer, and yes Svartzorn and Neraus as well, you all know your stuff, even if we don't agree all the time;
And JJ is a top poster, always brings something to the table that makes me want to think more. I can see where he's coming from.
Thank you for the kindness.
"Alight! I had enough". JJ is aok in my book, just a tad cantankerous AND that's why he likes me sooo much. We Relics have to be "equipped". Artu too, don't forget that guy, he's in wub.
Merry Christ's-mass.
____________
"Do your own research"
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 14, 2015 11:56 AM |
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It's about time we did some worship around here...
Psalm 6 NIV
Lord, do not rebuke me in your anger
or discipline me in your wrath.
2
Have mercy on me, Lord, for I am faint;
heal me, Lord, for my bones are in agony.
3
My soul is in deep anguish.
How long, Lord, how long?
4
Turn, Lord, and deliver me;
save me because of your unfailing love.
5
Among the dead no one proclaims your name.
Who praises you from the grave?
6
I am worn out from my groaning.
All night long I flood my bed with weeping
and drench my couch with tears.
7
My eyes grow weak with sorrow;
they fail because of all my foes.
8
Away from me, all you who do evil,
for the Lord has heard my weeping.
9
The Lord has heard my cry for mercy;
the Lord accepts my prayer.
10
All my enemies will be overwhelmed with shame and anguish;
they will turn back and suddenly be put to shame.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted December 14, 2015 01:22 PM |
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markkur said:
I helped at an on-line Christian community of believers that were about helping each other, not to plan for Heaven but live a Christian life in a very hostile world. Guess what? We had many people that would join the forum only to spout venom. I remember one Crusader, his name was Reality-"*" * = omitted because he deserved no applause. After about a year, I was finally able to get him to leave, once I explained he was "wasting his valuable time" and should be improving the world with his vast knowledge.
I think it's tragicomic that some people are ready to spend so much time making other people upset or even miserable, because there's a difference of opinion. If anything, I think often how we present our viewpoint (not only how we word it, but in the proper place at the proper time, etc.) is more important than the actual viewpoint.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 14, 2015 01:25 PM |
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This thread is pages long: 
