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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted June 07, 2016 06:54 PM |
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OldLich:
I am not searching for truth.
...
Aha. Its is cleary. I stop talk to you because its no sense. Dont talk with him if he not searching for truth you lost time telling to him. Bible is truth and he dont search it. And he dont find. Logic.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted June 07, 2016 06:58 PM |
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OldLich said:
Imagine that guy, he is in a funeral, his mother just died. He is so full of sorrow and he just may commit suicide because he can't deal with that sorrow. And this is not only one guy, everyone have the same sorrow in each funeral, WHY, DID, GOD, CREATE, SORROW, WHEN, THERE, IS, A, LIFE, AFTER, DEATH, ANYWAY! SOME, PEOPLE, COMMIT, SUICIDE, BECAUSE, OF, THAT, SORROW!
Imagine a life in THIS BODY where every day is the same - no changes. No sorrow, no joy, no hate no love just steady nothing to get excited about. In this body we must have the balance we understand today to either bring out the best in us or destroy us...that is called Freedom and I never want Tyranny by any hand. To understand Heaven if it exists we are going to have to have a massive change before arrival.
People blame God for the mess the world is in but it is MAN that has us here not God. I think this world is perfect as it is now but a self-centered MAN has and IS making the world what it is. GREED has ever destroyed life and will until all "truly and not by lip-service" follow Christ; not Religion and Denominations but Christ and Christ alone. He was and is the NEW & Final Covenant. The Old Testament is history not the road to life now.
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"Do your own research"
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted June 07, 2016 07:17 PM |
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It just appeared that you have not opened that chest yet what you spoke of OldLich. It's not like we turn blind to all reason, we Christians are just have "been lucky" to find, or more correctly said: Truth, Has found us.
Sorrow is painful, as hard it may seem life and love are still stronger forces. Are we without sorrow? No! In all life's bitterness, I have witnessed that God is still good. This life matters a lot but God has promised that He will cleanse all our tears away in heaven, where there no more, sorrow, sadness, sickness and death. Ultimately God will prevail.
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OldLich
Hired Hero
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posted June 07, 2016 07:22 PM |
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Sorrow doesn't follow a pre-set of rules, it follows people in both natural cases (like a funeral) and in more extreme cases (terror attacks for example) and we know what sorrow does to your body, it makes you physically sick if it is untreated. Sorrow is not a good thing, it's sickening.
If it is true what you're saying that sorrow is supposed to give us a life-important change, so that we get some variation in happiness, what exactly is the point in getting to heaven when God will wipe away that sorrow and our tears, isn't that heaven going to be directly opposed to the principle of change that you were talking about?
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted June 07, 2016 07:26 PM |
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OldLich said:
It is natural for christians to believe that a messed up world requires a hero to solve it, but both the hero and the messed up world originate from the same hero.
this world appears beyond saving. Jesus was never here to save this world. Could he? ya for sure but why would that kind of magic be used on a place like this when the reality of it is so much more pure?
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What are you up to
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Raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted June 07, 2016 07:45 PM |
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I strongly suspected it earlier and I am fairly certain now, guys please stop feeding the troll. Just look at how inconsistent what he is saying is, one moment he is talking about Adam and the next he "quotes" dialogue from 4 separate entities. Also this, "I am a Power Lich, I come from a Lich family. We cook truth! We live and feed ourselves by COOKING TRUTH!".
Quite simply, great bait mate.
If I am mistaken and you honestly believe in the stuff you are spewing, I pity you for whatever happened in your life that sent you looking for such dismal beliefs.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted June 07, 2016 09:38 PM |
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He dont seraching truth, good and beaty. So dont talk with him. Result will be zero. This is end of discussion. He want you to be nervous. There is no discussion with people who dont want truth.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted June 07, 2016 09:47 PM |
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OldLich said:
Sorrow doesn't follow a pre-set of rules, it follows people in both natural cases (like a funeral) and in more extreme cases (terror attacks for example) and we know what sorrow does to your body, it makes you physically sick if it is untreated. Sorrow is not a good thing, it's sickening.
If it is true what you're saying that sorrow is supposed to give us a life-important change, so that we get some variation in happiness, what exactly is the point in getting to heaven when God will wipe away that sorrow and our tears, isn't that heaven going to be directly opposed to the principle of change that you were talking about?
God is the cause of the sorrow and the tears, that's the epic fallacy of this whole story, that perfect being's creations are imperfect, we were wronged from the very beggining (When i came to this conclusion I literally cried like a little baby). There is no way to reconcile our godly nature, we literally have to evolve into human beings to stop ourselves from destrying each other for supremacy (or go down the Egyptian route where we name one ****er a god and we all agree to be his peons), there is NO way to live in harmony with our liberal nature.
That said, because it's impossible does not mean that we can't get as close as humanly possible to it, I don't want heaven, I want to live as my maker I do not want to give up the only gift I have from the all-father. I have suffered for it, and it's all god's fault, a god that failed, don't hate the mofo, far from it, but I'm going to carve out my own piece of this world and live as my nature dictates.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted June 07, 2016 10:27 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 22:30, 07 Jun 2016.
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I can't agree that God has failed.
I learn more of subject that matters from suffering than I can from any text book. A life of pain motivates strength and ambition for peace and fulfillment.
etc
Does this give me an excuse to justify the pain and suffering caused by this sno'd up U.S. government corporation deception? The millions upon billions of deaths based on lies? The oppression of our people and feeding the control of the top .1% Roth's and everything? Nope, this world is real enough to me to pray that corporate owners end up underground with monsanto GMO seeds and fracked up water supply. They need to be handcuffed for the rest of their lives and let the world prosper.
Will that happen? Probably nothing remotely close to that. Has God failed? I don't believe so. Has God failed the billions of victims? I do not decide the answer to that question. I don't rely on religion to give me a sense of peace and ignorance to their suffering and I would help given the chance. But I have a feeling, assuming there is an afterlife, that we will be together in one sense or another in a better place.
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What are you up to
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted June 08, 2016 12:55 AM |
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Good to hear your opinions Tsar and Celf 
In the end, nothing of this world will last forever. We can try to evolve and make everything better but eventually it will all perish. There are beauty and there are ugliness in this world. It will come to even worse before everything stops. That's what nt revelations promised for us.
It's hard to picture perfect world as we are held here. There are some information on bible about new world, paradise and heaven. I wonder what's that all gonna be like. How aim gonna feel, think and see then.
The end, is only a new beginning. The end of controversy, what drives my soul in two ways; flesh and spirit. Will come to an end and aim free at last. I have felt a glimpse of that glory what is coming, after accepting Jesus in my life. That ship is still far from shores of the emerald and gold. Eventually will make it there as my "Captain" has promised.
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OldLich
Hired Hero
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posted June 08, 2016 05:32 AM |
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I don't mind hopeful people, but when hope turns into claims and arrogance (I'm not saying anyone is) but when and if it does turn into claims and arrogance, it has stepped into a domain in which it doesn't belong.
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OldLich
Hired Hero
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posted June 08, 2016 05:36 AM |
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Edited by OldLich at 05:45, 08 Jun 2016.
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Tsar-Ivor said:
God is the cause of the sorrow and the tears, that's the epic fallacy of this whole story, that perfect being's creations are imperfect, we were wronged from the very beggining (When i came to this conclusion I literally cried like a little baby). There is no way to reconcile our godly nature, we literally have to evolve into human beings to stop ourselves from destrying each other for supremacy (or go down the Egyptian route where we name one ****er a god and we all agree to be his peons), there is NO way to live in harmony with our liberal nature.
That said, because it's impossible does not mean that we can't get as close as humanly possible to it, I don't want heaven, I want to live as my maker I do not want to give up the only gift I have from the all-father. I have suffered for it, and it's all god's fault, a god that failed, don't hate the mofo, far from it, but I'm going to carve out my own piece of this world and live as my nature dictates.
It's not a question about survival, it's not a question of "getting through" or "making everything go smoothly" or make "everything like a walk in the park". To me, it has nothing to do with sorrow, the thing I was talking about in the context of sorrow, is purely an intellectual matter to me. It's about understanding the point in a a pointless creation, that doesn't mean it's pointless, it means it is apparently pointless, which means it could be very pointless unless we dig deeper into the answers. But primarily, to me, everything is an intellectual matter. Understanding and always getting more truth on the table. It's not an emotional thing to me like it is to a great deal of many other people.
Very often, the people who are emotional about this, they will attack you immediately if you even dare to step into the topic of christianity. Their identity is at stake. Religion is probably a more emotional topic than mid life crisis. I've seen bad things happen to people, but you can't touch their religion, they go absolutely nuts over it. And this proves very much that it's not driven by rationality or reason.
Emotions are always one step behind everything else, that is why you should never and people probably understand that they should never let emotions govern their lives and their choices. Emotions comes second.
We know from experience that emotions do in fact lie, and very often, they are quite unreliable. But at the same time, I understand perfectly well the need for people to have a comfort zone in their lives, and in that comfort zone we have to build some safety, in that regard I understand the importance of emotions, but some people take it too far, unfortunately.
Very few people are rational, it's a sad thing to say that, it's not often that I find people that I can truelly call rational. There is always some crap in there, they don't all carry the same amount of crap, but very often they carry a great deal of crap.
To me personally, being rational is a practice, not something you're born with. If you stop practicing it, you'll get snowed up some time or another. The only way to practice it is to get out of your comfort zone.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted June 08, 2016 12:44 PM |
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Edited by Homer171 at 12:47, 08 Jun 2016.
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You are right about that emotions can desieve you. Too often people rely on emotions, only what "feels" good is the correct way. Other far end is the only radical thinking where people block all emotional mindset what does not fit in your logical view. In my mind, you need both. Human is both logical and emotional being. Men's are statistically more logical than women's. Think about sports, you need good strategy to overcome your opponent. I have heard from professional athletes that as soon they stop loving the game they should stop playing. You need to have heart and mind in right place. Same it's for life as well, you need both but you should not forget to use both in right measures.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted June 08, 2016 04:10 PM |
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OldLich said:
Very often, the people who are emotional about this, they will attack you immediately if you even dare to step into the topic of christianity. Their identity is at stake. Religion is probably a more emotional topic than mid life crisis.
Dude expand your vision and kick out your bias. Emotions are what is driving everything now. Most people "Fall in Love" today but what actually happened was plain old Lust. However, true Love is a lifelong learning process that is more about wise decisions, compassionate service and total-commitment than anything else.
Quote:
To me personally, being rational is a practice, not something you're born with. If you stop practicing it, you'll get snowed up some time or another. The only way to practice it is to get out of your comfort zone.
You are not knocking on a new door here but I would also add the lost ARTs of Imagination and Logic.
We live in a "snap the fingers world and your desire is there". That is far more destructive to all sought-after human virtues than most anything else. Just desiring satisfaction for any wish without effort, let alone actually working towards it, far too often...corrupts and overshadows the best in us all.
A few words about "the Christian babes that drink milk only and are not ready for steak". (immature as yet) That's also true in every aspect of life for most people of all walks of life. Because most people do not bother to "know well what they propose they believe...no matter the topic or it's importance".
Most Christianity I have witnessed in 36 years is a "Jesus Coat" where people tend to put Him on Sunday morning and take Him off early Sunday afternoon; often in time for...the Big Game...of some sort. That can be a easy comfy thing to do but that cannot finish the inside change that needs to happen. Once again...it is only sipping baby bottles, if Christ is not becoming at least a daily obedience (daily focus and effort -usually known as prayer and meditation) in every human interaction. And that is a long narrow winding road of obedience to the Word and the Way for the rest of your life here on the big blue marble. As Tsar said we should strive for perfection (we are told to do so) but we are also told we cannot arrive. Hard work can make us much better people but it will never make us God because everyone else that fate places in our path is part and parcel to what shapes us. Christ died for All...not just me/myself/I.
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted June 08, 2016 06:02 PM |
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OldLich said:
Very few people are rational, it's a sad thing to say that, it's not often that I find people that I can truelly call rational. There is always some crap in there, they don't all carry the same amount of crap, but very often they carry a great deal of crap.
I could go and call you irrational, prove to me you aren't.
There is a little obstacle on the way, I may not change my mind even if you say the most convincing thing.
If you try to strip away any emotion to leave only rationality you will fail, emotions can be choked but not removed completely.
And so people may call you rational or irrational depending on how they see you and how they perceive your argument, but, these people will disagree, some will call you rational, maybe because of some objective value in your argument or because you are saying the same things they would say, likewise some may call you irrational, since you are saying absolutely idiotic things or maybe you are saying something that they are against.
There will always be emotion in our judgements, and no matter what we are influenced by them.
So yeah, relativism is a terrible master.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted June 11, 2016 07:56 AM |
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Edited by markkur at 07:57, 11 Jun 2016.
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Since taking up my life and doing my best (usually) in following Christ I have very often felt at odds with man and his religion and since something much deeper that I believe Christ intended His One Church to be. It is very hard to explain what the Lords message about "One Body" means to me but maybe the following says it better than I ever will.
THE MUSIC-LOVER
The Music-Lover had come to his favorite seat. It was in the front row of the balcony, just where the curve reaches its outermost point, and, like a rounded headland, meets the unbroken flow of the long-rolling, invisible waves of rhythmical sound. The value of that chosen place did not seem to be known to the world, else there would have been a higher price demanded for the privilege of occupying it. People were willing to pay far more to get into the boxes, or even to have a chair reserved on the crowded level of the parquet. But the Music-Lover cared little for fashion, and had long ago ceased to reckon the worth of things by the prices asked for them in the market. He knew that his choice of vantage, by some secret confluence of architectural lines, gave him the very best of the delight of hearing that the vast concert-hall contained. It was for that delight that he was thirsting, and he surrendered himself to it confidently and entirely.
He had arrived at an oasis in the day. Since morning he had been toiling through the Sahara of the city's noise: arid, senseless, inhospitable-noise, roaring of wheels, clanging of bells, shrieking of whistles, clatter of machinery, squawking of horns, raucous and strident voices: confused, bewildering, exhausting noise, a desolate and unfriendly desert of heard ugliness. Now all that waste, howling wilderness was shut out by the massive walls of the concert-hall, and he found himself in a haven of refuge.
But silence alone would not have healed and restored his spirit. It needed something more than the absence of harsh and brutal and meaningless noise to satisfy him. It needed the presence of music: tones measured, ordered, and restrained; varied and blended not by chance, but by feeling and reason; sound expressive of the secret life and the rhythmical emotion of the human-heart. And this he found flowing all around him, entering deeply into him, filling all the parched and empty channels of his being, as he listened to Beethoven's great Symphony in C Minor.
I
There was nothing between him and the orchestra. He looked over the railing of the gallery, which shaded his eyes from the lights of the boxes below, straight across the gulf in which the mass of the audience, diminutive and indistinguishable, seemed to be submerged, to the brilliant island of the stage. The conductor stood in the foreground. There was no touch of carefully considered eccentricity in hair or costume, no pose of self-conscious Bohemianism about him.
His face, with its clear brow, firmly molded chin, and brown moustache, was that of a man who understood himself as well as music. His figure, in its faultless evening dress, had the tranquil poise and force of one who obeys the customs of society in order to be free to give his mind to other things. With slight motions, easy and graceful as if they came without thought and required no effort, his right hand, with the little baton, gave the time and rhythm, commanding swift obedience; while his left hand lightly beckoned here and there with magical persuasion, drawing forth louder or softer notes, stirring the groups of instruments to passionate expression, or hushing them to delicate and ethereal strains. There was no labor, no dramatic display in that leadership; nothing to distract the attention, or to break the spell of the music. All the toil of art, the consideration of effects, the sharp and vehement assertion of authority, lay behind him in the rehearsals.
Now the finished work, the noble interpretation of the composer's musical-idea, flowed forth at the leader's touch, as if each motive and phrase, each period and melody, were waiting somewhere in the air to reveal itself at his slight signal. And through all the movement of the Allegro con brio, with its momentous struggle between Fate and the Human Soul, the orchestra answered to the leader's will as if it were a single instrument upon which he played.
And so, for a time, it seemed to the Music-Lover as he looked down upon it from his lofty place. With what precision the bows of the violins moved up and down together; how accurately the wood-winds came in with their gentler notes; how regularly the brazen keys of the trumpets rose and fell, and the long, shining tubes of the trombone slid out and in. Such varied motions, yet all so limited, so orderly, so certain and obedient, looked like the sure interplay of the parts of a wonderful machine. He watched them as if in a dream, fascinated by their regularity, their simplicity in detail, their complexity in the mass—watched them with his eyes, while his heart was carried along with the flood of music. More and more the impression of a marvelous unity, a mechanical certainty of action, grew upon that half of his mind which was occupied with sight, and gave him a singular satisfaction and comfort.
It was good to be free, for a little while at least, from the everlasting personal equation, the perplexing interest in human individuals, the mysterious and disturbing sympathies awakened by contact with other lives, and to give one's self to the pure enjoyment of an impersonal work of art, rendered by the greatest of all instruments — a full orchestra under control of a master.
II
But presently the Allegro came to an end, and with the pause there came that brief stir in the orchestra, that momentary relaxation of nerves and muscles, that moving and turning of many heads in different directions, that swift interchange of looks and smiles and whispered words between the players, which seemed like the temporary dissolving of the spell that made them one. And with this general but separated and uncertain movement a vague thought, an unformulated question, passed into the mind of the Music-Lover.
How would the leader reassemble the parts of his instrument in a few seconds, and make them one again, and resume his control over it? How would he make the pipes and strings and tubes and drums answer to his touch, though he laid no hand upon them? There must be some strange, invisible key-board, some secret system of communication between him and those various contrivances of wood and wire and sheep-skin and horse-hair and metal (so curiously and grotesquely fashioned, when one came to consider them) out of which he was to bring melody and harmony. How should one conceive of this mysterious key-board and its hidden connections? How should one comprehend and imagine it? Was it not, after all, the most wonderful thing about the great instrument on which the symphony was played?
While the Music-Lover, leaning back in his seat, was idly turning over this thought, the Andante began, and all definite questioning and reasoning were absorbed in the calm, satisfying melody which flowed from the violas and cellos. But now a singular change came over the half-conscious impression which his eyes received as they rested on the orchestra. It was no longer a huge and strangely fashioned instrument, intricate in construction, perfect in adjustment, that he was watching.
It was a company of human beings, trained and disciplined to common action, understanding one another through the sharing of a certain technical knowledge, and bound together by a unity of will which was expressed in their central obedience to the leader. The arms, the hands, the lips of these hundred persons were weaving together the many-colored garment of music, because their minds knew the pattern, and their wills worked together in the design. Here was the wonderful hidden system of communication, more magical than any mechanism, just because it was less perfect, just because it left room, along each separate channel, for the coming in of those slight, incalculable elements of personal emotion which lend the touch of life to rhythm and tone. The instruments were but the tools. The composer was the master-designer. The leader and his orchestra were the weavers of the rich robe of sound, in which alone the hidden spirit of Music, daughter of Psyche and Amore, becomes perceptible to mortal sense. The smooth and harmonious action of the players seemed to lend a new charm, delicate and indefinable, to the development of the clear and heart-strengthening theme with its subtle variations and its powerful, emphatic close, like the fullness of meaning in the last line of a noble sonnet.
III
In the pause that followed, the Music-Lover let himself drift quietly with the thoughts of peace and concord awakened by this loveliest of andantes. The beginning of the Scherzo found him, somehow or other, in a new relation to the visible image of the orchestra. The weird, almost supernatural music, murmured at first by the 'cellos and double-basses, then proclaimed by the horns as if by the trumpet of Fate itself; the repetition of the same struggle of emotions which had marked the first movement, but now more tense, more passionate, more human, the strange, fantastic mingling of comedy and tragedy in the Trio and the Fugue with its abrupt questions and answers; all this seemed to him like a moving picture of the inner life of man. And while he followed it, the other half of his mind was watching the players, no longer as a group, a unit of disciplined action, but as individuals, persons for each of whom life had a distinct color, and tone, and meaning.
His eyes rested unconsciously on the pale, dreamy face of the second violinist; the black, rugged brows of the trumpeter; the long, gentle countenance of the flute-player with its flexible lips and blond beard. The grizzled head of the 'cellist bent over his instrument with an air of quiet devotion. The burly form of the player of the double-bassoon, behind his rare and awkward instrument, waiting for his time to come in, had the look of a man who could not be surprised or troubled by anything. One of the bass-violinists had the rough-hewn figure and the divinely chiseled, sorrow-lighted face of Lincoln, the others were children of the everyday. The clarinetist, with his dark beard and high temples, might have sat for Rembrandt's picture of "The Philosopher." The rotund kettle-drummer, with his smooth head and sparkling eyes, restlessly turning his little keys and
bending down to listen to the tuning of his grotesque music-pots, seemed impatient for the part in the score when he was to build the magical bridge, on which the symphony passes, without a break, from the third to the last movement.
"All these persons, said the inner voice of the Music-Lover (he listening all the while to the entangling and unfolding, dismissing and recalling of the various motives) — all these persons have their own lives and characters." They have known joys and sorrows, failures and successes. They have hoped and feared. All that Beethoven poured into this music from his experience of poverty, of conflict with physical weakness and the cruel limitations of Fate, of baffled desire, of loneliness, of strong resolution, of immortal courage and faith, these players in their measure and degree have known. "Even now they may be in love, in hatred, in friendship, in jealousy, in gloom, in resignation, in courage, or in happiness. What strange paths lie behind them; what laughter and what tears have they shared; what secret ties unite them, one with another, and what hidden barriers rise between those who do not understand and those who do not care! There are many stories running along underneath this music, some of them just begun, some long since ended, some never to find a true completion: little stories of many lands, humorous and pathetic, droll and capricious legends, merry jests, vivid romances, serious tales of patience and devotion. "And out of these stories, because they are human, has come the humanity of the players: the thing which makes it possible for them to feel this music, and to play it, not as a machine would play, grinding it out with dead monotony, but with all the color and passion of life itself.
"Why should we not know something of this hidden background of the orchestra? Why should not somebody tell one of the stories that is waiting here? Not I, but some one familiar with this region, who has trodden its paths and shared in its labors; not a mere lover of music, but a musician."
Here the inner voice which had been running along through the Scherzo and the Trio and the Recapitulation, died away quietly with the pianissimo passage in which the double-basses and the drum carry one through the very heart of mystery; and the Music-Lover found himself intensely waiting for the great Finale.
Now it comes, long-expected, surprising, victorious, sweeping all the instruments into its mighty current, pausing for a moment to take up the most delicate and mysterious melody of the Scherzo (changed as if by magic into something new and strange), and then moving on again, with hurrying, swelling tide, until it breaks in the swift-rolling, thunderous billows of immeasurable jubilation.
The Music-Lover drew a long breath. He sat motionless in his seat. The storm of applause did not disturb him. He did not notice that the audience had risen. He was looking at the orchestra, already beginning to melt away; but he did not really see them.
Presently a hand was stretched out from the second row behind him, and touched him on the shoulder. He turned around and saw the face of his friend the Dreamer, the Brushwood Boy, with his bright eyes and disheveled hair. And beside him was the radiant presence of the Girl Who Understood. "Lieber Meister," said the Boy, "you are coming now with us. There is a bite and a sup, and a pipe and an open fire, waiting for you in our room and I have a story to read you. Bitte komm!"
From; The Unknown Quantity, by Henry van Dyke
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"Do your own research"
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OldLich
Hired Hero
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posted June 11, 2016 04:55 PM |
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Edited by OldLich at 16:56, 11 Jun 2016.
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Neraus said:
OldLich said:
Very few people are rational, it's a sad thing to say that, it's not often that I find people that I can truelly call rational. There is always some crap in there, they don't all carry the same amount of crap, but very often they carry a great deal of crap.
I could go and call you irrational, prove to me you aren't.
There is a little obstacle on the way, I may not change my mind even if you say the most convincing thing.
If you try to strip away any emotion to leave only rationality you will fail, emotions can be choked but not removed completely.
And so people may call you rational or irrational depending on how they see you and how they perceive your argument, but, these people will disagree, some will call you rational, maybe because of some objective value in your argument or because you are saying the same things they would say, likewise some may call you irrational, since you are saying absolutely idiotic things or maybe you are saying something that they are against.
There will always be emotion in our judgements, and no matter what we are influenced by them.
So yeah, relativism is a terrible master.
No I am for emotions, I was only replying to a guy who spoke about what drives him, and I responded by telling him that I am not engaged in religion because of emotions.
Emotions (In a general way) or in (any context) has got nothing to do with what I said about emotions. I am for emotions.
What exactly is it that you disagree about? My claim was that very few people are truelly rational.
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted June 11, 2016 05:09 PM |
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Nah sorry then, I thought you were the type that placed rationality above everything.
I kind of hate when people come and say that few people are rational and as such they're the only ones that have a valuable opinion.
That serves me for skimming over your posts.
____________
Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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OldLich
Hired Hero
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posted June 11, 2016 05:45 PM |
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Edited by OldLich at 18:05, 11 Jun 2016.
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Neraus said:
Nah sorry then, I thought you were the type that placed rationality above everything.
I kind of hate when people come and say that few people are rational and as such they're the only ones that have a valuable opinion.
That serves me for skimming over your posts.
If you think there is a reason to hate it when people make such claims, you should reconsider it, because humans are flock animals, just like birds. It is perfectly possible to be irrational in a rational way. When one bird changes direction, it creates a chain reaction with the other birds to move that direction too (in order to prevent bumping into predators like hawks for example), they don't think they just react instantly, and that reaction is rational. But at the same time, herd mentality also has its downside, it's both rational and irrational.
When I speak about people being irrational, I am speaking about the downside of the rational human being, I am not speaking of the beneficial side. There is an up AND a down side to that. So when someone speak about people being irrational doesn't mean they aren't rational, it just means they are more affected by that down side than anyone else.
Hopes this gave you a better understanding.
Herd mentality is beneficial but lacks total rationality. I can give plenty of examples for this. Nazi Germany 1939, people followed Hitler because doing the opposite would create a more devastating side effect than actually following him. A deep economic depression, loss of territory and trade embargos on them. Herd mentality is insane in one way but it is always beneficial at the other end, usually, it is beneficial at the other end.
If the depression is deep enough, people will choose the beneficial side no matter what the cost is, so herd mentality is always very dangerous but at the end it produces the best results.
In a religious way, religion makes you psychologically more productive and its a very strong idea that keeps people together, thats one aspect of it. But to be able to sustain it you have to oppose anyone who is against religion, and here is the interesting point I want to make: Religious people knows instictively that they have to opposte non christians, BEFORE they have a rational reason to do so.
How could a religious guy maintain natural harmony and function if someone disagrees with his core beliefs. That is the whole reason behind the flock mentality, if there is disagreement at the core, everything starts to function badly and everything else slows down as well. It's about harmony and survival.
It has nothing to do with Jesus or God, religious people will not be running around in the forest looking for Jesus, neither will they look for him at the local shop or on the mountains, they will look for him while they are at their homes and inside their heads only. The reason is because the beliefs they carry are personal, and have personal explanations, which can vary between each person. All religious people know this.
My personal opinion is that religious people are the ones who underestimate God the most because many of them reduce and narrow down the idea of a God to a book only. Non christians like to analyze and approach the idea of God in an intellectual and controversial way, this does not mean they oppose God, but it means they are the ones who least underestimate him, because they don't reduce God down to a book, like christians do.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted June 11, 2016 08:07 PM |
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OldLich said:
...but it means they are the ones who least underestimate him, because they don't reduce God down to a book, like christians do.
Good grief; someone that does NOT believe has a better estimate than someone who does. That is irrational and horribly devoid of merit. Try thinking; "Creator of the universe" "Miracles" etc.
And your final..."like Christians do". That is a very shallow thought/communication. Blanket-thinking/speaking is done habitually by many and for many reasons and the result is always the same...serious error.
Let me give you a fact. I had no religious background whatsoever, nor my family and The Gospels opened my eyes just like they were intended. The world and all living things became my compassion; until then I was lost in my passions and emotions and living more by chance than ever 'attempting' to navigate beyond my simple thinking like Work, Eat, Sleep etc. Christ broke my invisible-shackles and set me free...to be me...full tilt boogie.
If God exists, He is far greater than you or I can comprehend beyond "the glimpse we've been given in Christ". Anyone that claims to have God in his/her pocket desperately needs a re-think.
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