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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 15, 2018 08:43 PM |
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John Oliver on local news, behemoth Sinclair
Story concerns the potential problems in corporate consolidation of local news.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 15, 2018 09:04 PM |
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informative video. thanks.
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted February 15, 2018 09:10 PM |
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fred79 said:
Tsar-ivor said:
The trouble is that it's a constitution that Americans from high and low are unfit for (not all, but valid when referring to the collective).
So gun regulation is problematic as one hand it will help those unfit for the constitution, but at.the same time harm those who are. Solution is redifining citizenship n what it means to be American.
the core of the issue, is that people don't understand that with freedom comes responsibility and accountability. accountability is only enforced for select groups of people now(and it goes to insane lengths and is actually being used to abuse discriminately), but responsibility is right out the goddamn window. 
but honestly, responsibility isn't an american issue, really. it's a global issue. integrity and morality(specifically among "leadership") is also near non-existent, globally; and as far as i know, always has been.
You are right, but it's not that freedom comes with responsiblity and accountability, it's that freedom IS responsibility, it's to do and say what you desire (for whatever end) and not necessarily accept the consequences, but understand the nature of your environment's hostility (i.e don't be surprised you get crucified for being a sexual predator, or a nuisance just examples, different groupings of people have different tolerance levels, and it bends and curves, murder might be condoned, but say theft might not).
The real trouble is that America is lacking Americans, even a broken clock is right twice a day, so forgive me for quoting GoT (of all things), but in my honest analysis, today's Americans aren't fit to lick the boots of their ancestors (by an wide). Americans engender no love from abroad, they are not the epoch of civilization but the laughing stock of the world, and that's not envy, that is the result of systematic assault on the American people (and their gradual acceptance of this, this is critical the actual fault lies with the American people) to the point where the greatest nation ever to be born (or say the potential to be) has been reduced to nothing but an asinine international dumb brute and bully. To top of the insult, I had to listen to this crap on loop for 8 hours, people blaming guns, people 'calling' out for tighter gun controls, or fearing for their kids. You dumb ****s your kids weren't safe to bloody begin with, what did you think your country is a safe bubble? Now they get hit with a reality check and it's everyone else's fault that some 'true' Murican showed them just how frail their delusions are.
Nobody expects it to happen till it does, everyone thinks their safe going about their lives, till their number comes up, cause you know death and violence are tradgedies that are 'rare'. The only thing that matters is what a person can take, and what they can't. It seems Americans have grown accustomed to having double digit amounts of school shootings every year, congrats (some cry, some whine, but this is a pure fact played out before our very eyes, nothing will happen, because the reality is, people just want to forget it and just add 1 to the tally).
Nothing will get done, not because of NRA or the president and your representatives are corrupt, but because you allowed it to happen, you allowed it to happen America. I congratulate all those too dumb to see this.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 15, 2018 09:28 PM |
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fred79 said:
even if they don't have guns, people who want to kill are going to find a method to do so. look at the stabbings and vehicle attacks in europe. blaming the tool that someone uses to do something is retarded, no matter how many times that tool may be used. think about all the killings before guns were even invented; were people trying to ban swords because of it? how about bows and arrows? it's funny to think so, but i doubt it. it's because human beings don't like their "i'm human so i'm important and special" bubble popped. they'd rather live in fairy tale land(this piece of paper is worth something, justice prevails, our vote counts, our leaders have our best interests in mind, taxes and death are the only sure things in life, guns are evil, rock music leads to suicide and murder and is a tool of the devil, etc) than face reality: the issue is THEMus. pollution, overpopulation, suicide, murder, wiping out entire forests and ecosystems, wiping out entire species, you name it. the answer is simply "humans".
Yes, swords were banned in towns. This went for all arms. You couldn't walk around carrying a spear, a crossbow, whatever.
It's natural to limit and control dangerous weapons. Especially when their only use is fun. Swords, automatic firearms and the like are not really suitable for anything else than recreational use or warfare. Complete civilian ban for such items is understandable.
If we go to semi-automatics then we get onto the gray area because they are actually useful in hunting but also extremely effective in other, non-wanted roles. Same has happened before, you could walk around(still can) with a staff. Everyone who's ever trained with weapons knows how crazy effective one is in a fight. It's just that the benefits outweigh the negatives.
So when people say you shouldn't give guns to drug addicts, criminals, psychotic people, aggressive people, etc. they have a fair point. Allowing weapons for hunters in their sound mind and body is useful because they are that much better than bows. Sure some people advocate for complete ban on all guns and it's just a question of where you draw the line. In some countries this makes sense. In countries where civilian hunting is necessary(say Canada, USA, Finland etc.) the downsides are too much.
Only allowing bolt-action firearms could be worth it though. There is something to be said about that. Bolt-action firearms tend to cause people to aim better because they don't have a fast follow up shot, this causes less injured prey while hunting(of course then you can get eaten by the lion when you miss.) They also have greatly reduced rate of fire for homicidal use so they could be a better halfway point than the current semi-autos are.
PS. Automatic weapons aren't completely banned btw. there are some ways around that. They're just pretty toughly regulated.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 15, 2018 09:34 PM |
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tSar-Ivor said:
Americans engender no love from abroad, they are not the epoch of civilization but the laughing stock of the world,
Err, you talk on the behalf of who there? Because where I travel and speak with, every skilled individual dreams about flying to America, is basically the promised land for those who are ambitious and creative. Then the world (a specific category of millennials hippies imo) may be laughing because anyway that's all they are good at - harshly judging everyone else while they are on welfare perfusion, nonetheless not a single leader blinks without America's approval, and when America decides to withdraw from some alliance, everyone else drops as well. The shootings, terror acts and whatever are a drop in the ocean, when it comes to the bigger picture, which is that America is leading in every single area as today, and such outburst has its price as well. You can't reach the highest peaks without the fear of burning your wings.
And when you affirm they don't match their ancestors, you mean the slave owners? Or the ones who wrote the naturalization act in 1790 which prohibited people of color to immigrate in America because inferior race? Maybe then the drop of two atomic bombs on civil towns? I am curious to find which period you refer to.
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Era II mods and utilities
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted February 15, 2018 09:38 PM |
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JoonasTo said:
(of course then you can get eaten by the lion when you miss.)
Not sure Finland has that much to worry about in this department. 
Here is another one.
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted February 15, 2018 11:14 PM |
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Salamandre said:
And when you affirm they don't match their ancestors, you mean the slave owners? Or the ones who wrote the naturalization act in 1790 which prohibited people of color to immigrate in America because inferior race? Maybe then the drop of two atomic bombs on civil towns? I am curious to find which period you refer to.
All of it, they're degrading by the second, so you can just draw a parralel line down to the independence day.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 16, 2018 12:11 AM |
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But how are they degrading?
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted February 16, 2018 12:54 AM |
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They're degrading by becoming more tolerant, gradually accepting what before would have been unacceptable, sold as a necessary aspect of our circumstance.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 16, 2018 01:02 AM |
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Edited by artu at 01:18, 16 Feb 2018.
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Maurice said:
I have to agree with Fred here. Overpopulation in *any* species - not just humans - leads to violent outbursts, unless the population is strictly controlled. Overpopulation is usually regionally based, as you might find overcrowded cities in a country, while an hour drive away you might have villages with ample space for everyone..
But the phenomenon doesnt fit. When you look at the mass shootings, especially the school shootings, they usually occur in suburban areas and American suburbs are not overcrowded in that sense. They are actually pretty neat places to live in, private yards, trees everywhere, clean, wide roads... Look at the pictures of the last attack for instance, is the place some industrial hell hole with coal polluted skies and decks of ugly buildings stuffed with ant-like people that you'd see in some 19th Century novel? No, it isn't.
tSar-Ivor said:
They're degrading by becoming more tolerant, gradually accepting what before would have been unacceptable, sold as a necessary aspect of our circumstance.
Let's assume that is actually the core of the issue, how are they going to deem it unacceptable? Everybody already says it's unacceptable, it's not like people's reaction is like "yeah, well, that's life..." If it's unacceptable, you take solid action about it.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted February 16, 2018 02:17 AM |
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A fraction of the population whining can hardly be deemed as unacceptable, be it any other way we wouldn't be merely 'debating' gun regulation for over twenty years, they'd be a fact of life. Crying out when you're whipped, but then whimpering back to work all the same can hardly be consider the same as holding something to be truly unacceptable. Fact of the matter is, the current state of things is very much tolerated and to most a perfectly acceptable arrangent for most, simply because that's exactly how it's playing out. Oh aye, nobody argues that a tradgedy didn't occur, but that's all it is.
What are we waiting for, really? To me I doubt even a rate of school shooting in the triple digits a year would make a difference, or we seem to be doing is keeping a tally, which is fine by me, just seems mighty odd that's all.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 16, 2018 02:23 AM |
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What I mean is, other than "whining" or giving the "thoughts and prayers" speech, deeming it unacceptable would be through some solid regulation, and you seem to think of that as trivial.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
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Scourge of God
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posted February 16, 2018 02:41 AM |
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But of course it is, what occured wasn't some catastrophe, it's now a systematic violence wrought by those who are unfit to own or even touch lethal weapons who ought and should be curtailed from doing so. However, again, it's still not unacceptable, we feign it, but really not many truly give a ****. Gun regulation is something to be desired, but not worth sweating or bleeding for, we send our regards, we send our prayers and call for gun control, but nobody really does anything, because it doesn't really matter to most and that's the moral of the story. Hell some can't even make up their mind whether it ought to be gun control or full on ban on firearms (by some of the arugments it would heavily lean to the latter, which pisses me off to no end since it undermines so much of the effort on the PR front).
Of course I could be wrong, but if that were the case we wouldn't need to talk about state condoned gun violence.
With intelligence and real effort federal regulation is very likely, thisstate managed to pass prohabition because of the determination of those that truly held something unacceptable. NRA is indeed powerful albeit it's convenient scapegoat for the weak and spineless to justify inaction.
But just like with prohabition the dirty but noble truth will come out, Americans will refuse to be parted with what they believe is theirs and no federal law can change that. Hence it is a trivial endevour, just wish it came with less bullsnow.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 16, 2018 02:55 AM |
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But that's the thing, when people do push for actual change, gun lobbies simply buy politicians (indirectly, of course), so it is not just about regulating gun ownership but regulating the relationship between big finance and politicians (legislation).
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 16, 2018 03:07 AM |
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(note: the following will contain caps lock, but i'm not "yelling over the internet". i'm attempting to grab your attention, since some of you are really missing the reality of what i've been pointing out. there are some obvious miscommunications, somehow, here)
artu said:
But the phenomenon doesnt fit. When you look at the mass shootings, especially the school shootings, they usually occur in suburban areas and American suburbs are not overcrowded in that sense. They are actually pretty neat places to live in, private yards, trees everywhere, clean, wide roads... Look at the pictures of the last attack for instance, is the place some industrial hell hole with coal polluted skies and decks of ugly buildings stuffed with ant-like people that you'd see in some 19th Century novel? No, it isn't.
are you even reading what i'm posting? i made it abundantly clear, what is creating/driving these kinds of people. and you talk about what kind of physical environment they're in, like that has ANY bearing on where they act, OTHER than the obvious fact that these killings are always done in places where firearms AREN'T ALLOWED TO BE CARRIED BY CIVILIANS. i made it clear: it's a state of mind, and those states of mind are being molded by the society around them, and their reluctance to be a part of it, and downright hatred that they are pressured by everything around them, to conform to it.
@ tsar:
banning/restricting firearms isn't the issue, and it never was. if you could kill a lot of people in a short period of time with marijuana, you'd be seeing that. and marijuana, for the most part, is illegally sold on the streets. my point is, if you can't get it legally, you can get it ILLEGALLY. and just what would these killers do, if the populace was by and large unarmed? you'd see a lot MORE of these killings, because these people ONLY target places where the populace AREN'T ALLOWED TO CARRY FIREARMS. now, i KNOW that we need more regulation on snow, but it just ISN'T going to stop THIS problem. not here in the states.
and i'll reiterate again, MOST OF THE GUN VIOLENCE/DEATHS IN THE U.S. ARE GANG-RELATED, AND ARE NOT RELATED TO SPREE-KILLINGS.
that said, tsar, we are in agreement over how the u.s. constitution isn't truly being upheld by the people here. i think it all started with the failure and corporate conversion of the hippies, but it may have been before that.
i count most of the people here as not truly american at all. true(old-school) americans wouldn't tolerate ANY of this snow. most people across the u.s., would have been up in arms about the majority of what's been going on in the states, decades ago.
the problem was, the hippies were social outcasts to the standard social/government machine that was set in place. even IF they would have taken up arms after all their peace/love bullsnow failed, they would have most likely been eradicated by the status quo. but don't quote me on that.
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Tsar-ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted February 16, 2018 03:10 AM |
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@artu irrelevant, there is no consensus nor an agreed upon mandate, hal the time i can't tell if they want to regulate guns or to outlaw them entirely. The focus always goes to the merits of guns and why people want them as opposed to the real meat (or first step). Which is who ought to own guns and who should not. States with functioning gun regulation did so not through a crusade against guns, but through actual gun control (what guns you can own, where you can carry them etc).
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 16, 2018 03:10 AM |
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artu said:
it is not just about regulating gun ownership but regulating the relationship between big finance and politicians (legislation).
this. no one is overseeing the overseers. they're pretty much allowed to do what they want, because people aren't really challenging them. they're too mired in society to detach from it long enough to make moral progress in this country. everything in the u.s. is DESIGNED to mire you in society, so that you are attached to what's NOW, like with an umbilical cord. it's an illusion/dream that everyone seems to want to believe in(the specifics of which i pointed out before). 
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 16, 2018 03:12 AM |
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Tsar-ivor said:
@artu irrelevant, there is no consensus nor an agreed upon mandate, hal the time i can't tell if they want to regulate guns or to outlaw them entirely. The focus always goes to the merits of guns and why people want them as opposed to the real meat (or first step). Which is who ought to own guns and who should not. States with functioning gun regulation did so not through a crusade against guns, but through actual gun control (what guns you can own, where you can carry them etc).
i'm guessing you had this all typed up before my previous post. i'll let you read that, then i'll wait for your reply.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 16, 2018 03:15 AM |
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Edited by artu at 16:06, 16 Feb 2018.
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fred said:
i made it clear: it's a state of mind, and those states of mind are being molded by the society around them
Yes, fred. That can be said about all criminal behavior, even about all behavior to most degree. What I'm saying is overpopulation and people feeling suffocated by the crowds doesn't seem to be one of the parameters when it comes to these mass shootings. The shooters are alienated individuals of course but they are not alienated because of overpopulation.
Tsar-ivor said:
@artu irrelevant, there is no consensus nor an agreed upon mandate, hal the time i can't tell if they want to regulate guns or to outlaw them entirely. The focus always goes to the merits of guns and why people want them as opposed to the real meat (or first step). Which is who ought to own guns and who should not. States with functioning gun regulation did so not through a crusade against guns, but through actual gun control (what guns you can own, where you can carry them etc).
What guns you can own, where you can carry them, these have all been a matter of debate in the U.S. It was (is) the relationship between gun lobbies and legislation that preserved the status quo as it is. Also, keep in mind that it's not just about financing politicians but producing your own propaganda. The gun culture in the U.S. (not the right to ownership) is something that has been spoonfed to the public. It's all interlinked.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Tsar-ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted February 16, 2018 03:17 AM |
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As i wrote later on in my last big post on this page even if you manage to get some federal level change like with prohabition the truth always comes out, if people cant tolerate alcholism it's banned. But after all the hard work all that changed is now you got a country of outlaws. Then bootlegging became so perverse and out in the open the law was trivial, same with gun regulation unless the decision is truly democratic.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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This thread is pages long: 
