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Minastir
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 15, 2016 12:15 PM |
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Edited by Minastir at 12:34, 15 Jan 2016.
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Rakshasa92 said:
Hmm it's pretty much ashan all over again with few new adds, don't like cat-people among the orcs, in matter of fact i'm tired of Orcs all together, rather see Berserkers for a change, and NOT orc berserkers.
And this is a Karkadann for me, that rhino-like thing is more like a Ngoubou or Emela Ntouka for me.
A. You might be seeing Ashan Everywhere
B. Yes, this "rhino-like thing" is Karkadann, the original was based on the Indian Rhinoceros. This is the description of Karkadann from the book "The Natural History Of Unicorns" by Al-Biruni "It is of the build of a buffalo, has a black, scaly skin, a dewlap hanging down under the chin. It has three yellow hooves on each foot. The tail is not long. The eyes lie low, farther down the cheek than is the case with all other animals. On the top of the nose there is a single horn which is bent upwards. A fragment of Al-Biruni work preserved in the work of another author adds a few more characteristics: "the horn is conical, bent back towards the head, and longer than a span. The animal's ears protrude on both sides like those of a donkey, and its upper lip forms into a finger-shape, like the protrusion on the end of an elephant's trunk."
Maybe there are better pictures of Karkadann, as a rhino like creature but I wanted to show it with a rider so this was the best one. Your picture doesn't depict original Karkadann 
markmasters said:
Your mythology knowledge is remarkable
There were some things I liked but you also mentioned a few weird ones like ptseuchos, they shoot ray of focussed sum beams, even though the crocodile is dead, how does this fit in a undead theme?
Overall, people want to recognise stuff and thats why common names are used. I could see a undead norse theme though! (Draugr, einherjar, sleipnirs offspring, fenrus).
If the creature is basically the same but only the name is different, I don't see no point in changing it. You say you could see undead norse theme. I say, but why not Slavic undead theme ? for example Upiór, Wąpierz or Strzyga, you won't be able to pronounce them but oh well, you wanted different names
PS: take it with a wink 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 15, 2016 12:52 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 12:53, 15 Jan 2016.
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Articun said:
Also, i am saddened to see that Ashan has ruined the genre so much that anything that is done is always referenced as being too Ashan.
It's not "anything that is done", but obviously it will happen if you literally use some pics from Ashan (duh), or keep in a similar art style.
Articun said:
But the truth is that we tried to see what was in the roots of the game, from heroes II-VII.
The roots are far away from Ashan man, and if you keep with this kind of visuals you won't go into the roots.
Other than that, I think you're doing great work and is already tons better than Ubi, but my criticism here is only to try to pinpoint at you the one thing bothering me in your work.
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Articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted January 15, 2016 01:04 PM |
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Please do try to focus more on script and text and not the visuals
If we need critisism it is really in the lore and abilities department. The visuals are mainly what is more pleasing to the eye or closer to the common vision between me and Minastir. But still, the final product could be very very different if we had total freedom and the ability to create pics from scratch.
We wanted the feel of the faction (background, units, abilities, overall impression) to be more lax, like it was in the first games. At least, i hope we somehow achieve that a bit.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 15, 2016 01:10 PM |
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If you don't want me to focus on visuals don't put visuals. Of course I am going to focus on visuals, I consider it an important part of the game.
As I told you already, I think the rest is fine.
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted January 15, 2016 02:13 PM |
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Yes and Pyrausta are officially not INSECT DRAGONS, and Zaratan is a crab and not a turtle.
But some MODERN depictions of the creatures are BETTER than the old ones.
Especially the Karkadann, which was just the description of a freaking rhino back in the day, but turned into a awesome, aggressive desert unicorn along the way, which is much better than Emela Ntouka #2.
Remember vampires aren't pretty people was well, and werewolves looked very different back then. Everything changes for the best, you don't have to follow mythology 100%. Mythology is a good start, but you should build from there and turn the creatures better while keeping the name, abilities and add something to the appearance if it sucks. (like the Karkadann uhm Rhinoceros.)
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted January 16, 2016 01:31 PM |
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Great work! Keep it coming!
The only thing I see as too strong is the combination of both Bahemoth abilities. Still amazing work!
Just one question, what battle system will you take? HIII or HV.
I would really prefer the H5 dynamics. Plus it opens up space for hero skills in that area.
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Join our official discord channel | NCF Utility Beta
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Minastir
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 19, 2016 06:07 PM |
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dredknight said:
Great work! Keep it coming!
The only thing I see as too strong is the combination of both Bahemoth abilities. Still amazing work!
Just one question, what battle system will you take? HIII or HV.
I would really prefer the H5 dynamics. Plus it opens up space for hero skills in that area.
Thanks ! Next faction will published around friday
At this point, i don't know, so far we have reinvented tier system and we are focused on finishing all the factions. After that maybe we will also think about battle systems
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Minastir
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 22, 2016 02:53 PM |
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Inolin updated with another faction, the one we are waiting to make a come back: Bastion !
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted January 22, 2016 04:30 PM |
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Took a look here after a while.
I must say I really like stronghold! I think it both captures the feeling of the classical orc and barbarian faction from varies other fantasy works, while still retaining the awesome feeling of the desert tribes you got from H3's stronghold. However, it also adds some new to it, and it simply feels amazing!
The lineup is glorious put together with a lovely mix of many classic units and new ones.
Bastion is also good, however it has a few flaws in my eyes.
Firstly, I think the lizardman feels too close to sharpshooter in concept. I know they have their obvious differences, but I believe replacing one of them with something else, insectoid perhaps, would add a bit to the diversity and the overall feel.
Secondly, I do have a hard time with the hydra being on a lower tier than the mantis. Let's be honest, what is most suited for tier 7? A giant sevenheaded swampmonster or an overgrown mantis? Beside, the hydra is such a iconic creature (and no, you don't have to add it to another faction as well, try being a little more original). It's mostly just a lagic issue for me.
Lastly, while you have said that the artwork isn't representing the final look, I do think you could have found something better for some of them. A few suggestion:
Serpentfly
Lizardman
Catoblepas
Hydra
But other than that, you are doing good work. Plan to do Sanctuary..?
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted January 22, 2016 05:13 PM |
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Sanctuary will come, yes. But in due time. As for the pics, we didn't really want to reuse Heroes III pics. Be sure we saw a multitude of pics, Minastir had me go over at least 8 pics for each creature until we concluded to show what we show.
As for the Hydra, it is a matter of opinion and design. We wanted something new and unique that could maintain the feel of the old Fortress while making something of our own. And we wanted to have the Hydra as a smaller unit is a lower tier, while having something Insectoid on top. Mantises despite common belief are among the three TOP predators of the insect kingdom, so yeah, i believe that a big buffed up Mantis can slash through a Hydras heads if need be
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted January 22, 2016 08:20 PM |
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articun said:
As for the Hydra, it is a matter of opinion and design. We wanted something new and unique that could maintain the feel of the old Fortress while making something of our own. And we wanted to have the Hydra as a smaller unit is a lower tier, while having something Insectoid on top. Mantises despite common belief are among the three TOP predators of the insect kingdom, so yeah, i believe that a big buffed up Mantis can slash through a Hydras heads if need be
I can see your intensions, however I would still urge you to make the hydra one of the top levels. You would better maintain the feel of the old Fortress while still keeping it original by having the hydra (as you know was the original tier 7 of the swamp town) share the top spot with the Mantis. In my opinion that would be better.
And yes, I understand you wanted the hydra to be weaker, but let's be honest it doesn't do it justice. It's one of the most iconic and legendary swamp monster of all times, as well as from all matter of perspective a classic to the heroes series. It would suit it better than the Cipactli (which is basicly just a random south armerican rain mnonster you pulled out of a hat) Not to say it isn't good enough, but it doesn't equal the Hydra in many qualities... (less iconic, less tactical (it's just crush walls, eat stuff. Not that it is bad, but the hydra is better))
That aside, I would also like if there was a bigger focus on insects beside the mantis. Not much, just another creature. I would gladly help you if you do.
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted January 23, 2016 04:41 AM |
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I'm liking what's been presented thus far. I've a few quibbles, but nothing that really dampens my interest. Not overly enthused about Bastion, but I've never been overly fond of the "swamp faction" aesthetic, H3 Fortress being my least favourite faction overall. Not to say the faction is bad by any means - just not my taste. Stronghold looks particular good. I'm curious as to what's in store for Academy (Tower?), Inferno, and Sylvan, or whatever their equivalents are in this setting.
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted January 23, 2016 11:13 AM |
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Just to tease a bit, Inferno has quite the makeover, Sylvan is what one would expect but maybe a bit on the wild side and Academy, has its changes.
Also Thank you for your nice words
To be honest i didn't like Fortress very much is Heroes III either, but working on it, tweaking it and making it more strategic has made me very interested to see it come back to the game. In truth though, the faction had quite the fan-base.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 23, 2016 11:56 AM |
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Mediczero said:
I think it both captures the feeling of the classical orc and barbarian faction from varies other fantasy works, while still retaining the awesome feeling of the desert tribes you got from H3's stronghold.
No lol, the pictures presented may capture a lot of things but certainly not H3 IMHO
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted January 23, 2016 05:08 PM |
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Galaad said:
No lol, the pictures presented may capture a lot of things but certainly not H3 IMHO
That was my opinion, don't act like what you think is always superior.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 23, 2016 08:10 PM |
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Mediczero said:
That was my opinion, don't act like what you think is always superior.
Well sorry for it irritates me when some people who discovered H3 with the Ubi remake claim things like random images taken from google look like the game I grew up with.
Minastir and Articun clearly said they tried to appeal also to the people you don't belong to and as such -and also because I respect and care about their work- I give my opinion on the matter. Then, as usual, Mediczero, auto-proclaimed "Master Line-up Smith", starts to speak about things she is completely clueless about, and will take offence if someone dares to contradict her on said topic.
So please, stop acting like you know your stuff when mentioning H3, if you'd be so kind.
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted January 23, 2016 08:39 PM |
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Honestly, we try to appeal to as many people as we can. So, yeah, we go back to the roots. For me the roots is Heroes III, one of the first ever strategy games i came in contact with and spent countless hours in singleplayer and some on LAN multiplayer. From early on it was branded my favorite game. I also enjoyed Heroes IV though i didn't like all of its "new" mechanics. Then came Heroes V and i was a little taken aback by the art style, but it felt like a Heroes III of sorts so liked that game as well.
I can't claim to be a hardcore gamer anymore, or that i was the best tactician or strategist, but i do have experience with the franchise.
So, when i say going back to the roots, i mean that we want to give as many people as possible the feel of the factions in a spiritual way. So we see the lineups from all games and try to come up with as factional ideas as possible while providing also something new. Minastir and i follow the threads of this forum and see what people are discussing. What they consider interesting abilities, if active or passive is better or worse, about faction functionality but also cross - faction diversification. We do have an excel file and tried to balance out roles to the units so that no faction can feel alike to another in their lineups. And believe me, it is hard. But we did this before looking for pictures because we wanted our framework to be good, to be diversified but also to provide each faction with the necessary tools to stand on its own. If a faction doesn't have enough fliers, it has shooters or teleporters, if it doesn't have enough tanks or bulky units, it has fast flyers to reach the enemy, or so we tried to do.
Creating lineups in the end is not about putting units where one things they fit because of how they look but also because of how they will function and behave. And we didn't want to have something like heroes VII where all factions feel the same. We didn't want to have 2 flyers, 2 shooters and 3 damage dealers in each faction. We wanted each faction to feel unique.
Abilities are also harder to come by, because you can't give too many, but also what is too few? How interesting are they? Could they be in the game or is it too far-fetched? Should all units have abilities? If so why? Will those units with these abilities be in harmony with the whole lineup? Can the unit alone stand its own with this abilities? These are questions we try to ask ourselves when we create our lineups.
In the end, many people will not like these ideas, they may not like the story or theme or pic we choose, or the ability we give, or the position the unit was placed. But keep in mind, we have in store about 10 factions coming out in this thread, and we are working on all of them so that each feels different from the other, so that each feels complete on its own, so that all can fit within this new world as complete entities. It ain't easy, and it doesn't have any real impact, but it works on our creativity.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 23, 2016 08:48 PM |
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Hey don't misunderstand me Articun, as already said I think your work is great, I do insist on the visuals as I start to ask myself how does this creature or faction will play if I first feel appealed to it aesthetically, not the other way around. But I clearly understand you work differently, and obviously you can't use graphics that wouldn't appeal to you either.
It is a shame you have no graphical artist for your project, then it probably would be a totally different story on this side.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted January 24, 2016 03:22 PM |
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Wanted to give a long comment on this, but as I have no time, here come the short version:
Wonderful, awesome Work! I love it and look forward to see more of it!
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted January 25, 2016 11:19 AM |
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Mediczero said:
articun said:
As for the Hydra, it is a matter of opinion and design. We wanted something new and unique that could maintain the feel of the old Fortress while making something of our own. And we wanted to have the Hydra as a smaller unit is a lower tier, while having something Insectoid on top. Mantises despite common belief are among the three TOP predators of the insect kingdom, so yeah, i believe that a big buffed up Mantis can slash through a Hydras heads if need be
I can see your intensions, however I would still urge you to make the hydra one of the top levels. You would better maintain the feel of the old Fortress while still keeping it original by having the hydra (as you know was the original tier 7 of the swamp town) share the top spot with the Mantis. In my opinion that would be better.
And yes, I understand you wanted the hydra to be weaker, but let's be honest it doesn't do it justice. It's one of the most iconic and legendary swamp monster of all times, as well as from all matter of perspective a classic to the heroes series. It would suit it better than the Cipactli (which is basicly just a random south armerican rain mnonster you pulled out of a hat) Not to say it isn't good enough, but it doesn't equal the Hydra in many qualities... (less iconic, less tactical (it's just crush walls, eat stuff. Not that it is bad, but the hydra is better))
That aside, I would also like if there was a bigger focus on insects beside the mantis. Not much, just another creature. I would gladly help you if you do.
Just another south American rain creature pulled out of a hat? That is just SO wrong on So many levels.
Hydra was also pulled out of a hat, strange bizarre human which you are. If you never use something new, we keep ending up with the same overused boring stuff over and over again, don't you humans WANT to evolve further? You always want the same Wolverine, Tyrannosaurus and Hydra stuff? I'm not like that GLADLY! Thinking that way must feel like some prison, being so limited by your own thoughts and preferences, thank my maker my brains didn't end up so limited. THANK YOU!
And BTW, Cipactli is like a god, it would not even be a match for the Hydra, it is a force of gluttony and death, even a thousand headed Hydra would just be a snack for Cipactli.
Also JUST ANOTHER is wrong, it should be: Hydra is JUST ANOTHER Greek mythology overused creature spoiling my game. There aren't many South American and Aztec/Mayan monsters in ANY game, mostly they are Gods.
Greek monsters however are crowded in MANY games, as every game has Medusa, Harpy, Minotaurs, Centaur, Griffons, Cerberus and Hydra, while the only overused South/Mid American monsters I know about are Quetzalcouatl and Camazotz (the bat God).
Talking about them, ONTOPIC ALERT, Couatl -> Quetzalcouatl would be a cool 5th or 6th level creature in this town, it would match with Cipatcli rather nicely, I would replace one of the many lizardmen in the town.
I'm too lazy right now to post a huge list, but there are MANY awesome swamp and jungle creatures in mythology, to name a few that would be cool in this town are Kongamato, Popobawa, Ahuizotl, Deathcrawler, Ropen, Emela Ntouka, Mbielu-Mbielu, Camulatz and Nagual.
And mythology isn't cheap with lizardmen-like monsters as well, as you have:
Intulo, which is a gecko-man, the possibilities with these wall-clingers is endless.
Lunwaba from the same myth is a Chameleon-man, perfect assassin, which uses its long tongue as third arm.
Atosis doesn't really suit a jungle town, but these gilamonster-men from Native American myths use voodoo to crush their preys hopes and eventually their prey cook themselves.
Brobinyak is a ogre with dragon features from English boogeymen stories, also useable in a jungle town me thinks.
Everything is better than the same old boring lizardmen I see everywhere.
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