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OhforfSake
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posted December 06, 2016 06:19 PM |
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Minion said:
Is going to a girl at a bar and just slipping your finger into her panties without asking, flirting?
No that is just how we say 'hello' where I'm from. And it's not sexual discrimination because guys who were panties gets the same greeting.
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Salamandre
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posted December 06, 2016 06:42 PM |
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mvassilev said:
Reading this topic, the poll results become less and less surprising. So much rape apologism.
This is very immature conclusion, but I understand that some young and inexperienced people simply need to enforce and affirm, whatever it takes, their obsessions. I recall, however, that the countries in red have the smallest rate of both crime and rape, just in case you may believe you had some point with that poll.
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tSar-Ivor
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posted December 06, 2016 06:50 PM |
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I agree with Sal, the poll is just improperly constructed, asking multiple questions from people but ending with a simple pro or against rape is highly suspect. Especially when some of the situations listed aren't even rape as consent need not be verbal. The poll suggest that it is which is dumb and Eastern Europeans won't fall for such inane tropes.
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fred79
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posted December 06, 2016 08:20 PM |
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mvassilev said:
Reading this topic, the poll results become less and less surprising. So much rape apologism.
yeah, rape "apologism". it's the "ism's" that'll get ya. 
to me, it sounds like we have another sjw in our midst. feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
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mvassilev
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posted December 06, 2016 09:21 PM |
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If being against non-consensual sexual activity makes me an SJW, then sure, I'm an SJW.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 06, 2016 09:30 PM |
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Salamandre said:
mvassilev said:
Reading this topic, the poll results become less and less surprising. So much rape apologism.
This is very immature conclusion, but I understand that some young and inexperienced people simply need to enforce and affirm, whatever it takes, their obsessions. I recall, however, that the countries in red have the smallest rate of both crime and rape, just in case you may believe you had some point with that poll.
Why do you insist on drawing a corelation between the two, when two times already, it has been explained that rape statistics (which are very dependant on once again already explained factors) and rape apologism are entirely different subjects? A lot of Muslim countries show very low on rape while most Nordic countries are high, do you really think there are more people in a Nordic country who would, deliberately or not, loosely frame the definition of rape, than in a Muslim country then? This goes against all your previous statements? You say if we put aside religious communities, things are bettter in Europe, which is true but it's quite easy to see that Romania is one of the most old-fashioned religious countries in Europe even by looking in here, 3 of 4 members from the country are, by self-declarition overwhelmingly religious, almost or directly to the point of biblical literalism. Don't you think this is a much more important factor in understanding a ratio difference so significant? Flawed or not, the questions of the poll are the same everwhere but the results are not. And it is consistent with the very obvious socoiological notion that more traditional societies do tend to put the blame in women's irresponsibility or "suggestive acts" when it comes to rape.
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fred79
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posted December 06, 2016 09:40 PM |
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mvassilev said:
If being against non-consensual sexual activity makes me an SJW
certainly not. but demonizing flirting that includes touching will. demonizing normal human behavior when arousal occurs, will as well. it's like sjw's don't know the difference between actual rape, and everything else that people do when they're trying(or getting ready) to get into one another's pants. human sexuality doesn't immediately lead to rape, is what i'm trying to drive home. according to sjw's and feminists, it does, though. that's my point.
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artu
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posted December 06, 2016 09:49 PM |
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Edited by artu at 21:49, 06 Dec 2016.
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That "sub-debate" is rather about Trump, not the poll, fred.
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Salamandre
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posted December 06, 2016 09:55 PM |
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What I don't get is why you insist on separating rape apology from the act. I already stated that Romanian girls have same behavior as anywhere else in Europe, they get drunk, they walk alone by night, they dress provocatively and surely they like to tease and flirt. Despite this, there is no rape increase, and this is why the poll reports make no sense. Also the poll showed yesterday in french news, and I already observed comments about "those romanians, they stink". Today, at work, someone asked me if I read and how I take it. The worm is in the fruit.
Also I disagree on muslim countries, I have no idea about rape there, because in such areas women are olften someone's property, they don't even choose who to love, who to marry, they are some sort of gift to males. In such context, is impossible to check facts and get statistics, and beside this the Koranic law asks 4 males witness, in order to establish rape, one can figure how easy is to get reparation under such conditions.
Also I don't see how religion conflicts, I am no religious at all, Stevie is, but seems we both agree on this matter, thus I don't see your point.
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mvassilev
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posted December 06, 2016 09:55 PM |
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Light touching is one thing, though even it can be a problem, which is underappreciated. But this is obviously describing something more serious than that. It's one thing to touch someone's arm or something, and another to kiss them without waiting for consent or grabbing their genitals. I'm not demonizing sexuality, although it's worrying that you think I am, because it suggests l that you think this kind of behavior is closely tied to expressions of sexuality as such.
Also, appeals to normality don't show much. Something can be normal and still terribly wrong.
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Salamandre
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posted December 06, 2016 10:02 PM |
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The error is that you take a bragging comment as the strict reality.
What Trump comment means is that for him is very easy to get females and he doesn't need all the preludes the common man has to perform. Seriously, someone can believe that an individual, be it the richest in the world, can keep touching women genitals at first glance and not finish in prison sooner or later? This sounds out of this world for me.
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artu
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posted December 06, 2016 10:14 PM |
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As I already said, if you agree with "condemn the encouragment, men dont like mixed signals" it is very natural that the results wont make sense to you because that's what the results are about. And rather than a direct increase in rape cases, it would be about how people evaluate the existing cases. The poll is not about if people rape more or not, it's about how they weigh the existing ones. Women go to bars and drink and flirt everywhere, even in some of the Muslim countries, mind you. That doesnt mean some people would qualify that as risky behaviour, it doesnt give them the power to stop it but they can still be judgemental in a manner that rape apologism applies and that's an area where religiousity does play a part.
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mvassilev
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posted December 06, 2016 10:23 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Seriously, someone can believe that an individual, be it the richest in the world, can keep touching women genitals at first glance and not finish in prison sooner or later? This sounds out of this world for me.
Of course. It's not that hard to get away with it if you're as powerful as he is. It's mostly not even about the money, but the social power, which Trump has a lot of. If he did it in plain sight without plausible deniability, it'd be more difficult, but doing it quietly at a party - getting away with it is very believable, you don't even need to be a Trump for that.
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JollyJoker
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posted December 06, 2016 10:37 PM |
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Look, the poll is EXACTLY about rape APOLOGISM, not whether you are against or pro rape. It*s asking whether you CAN excuse rape ( in other words, whether no means no or whether you think that, well, in some aituations, depending, the rape is, well, not justiefied but excusable.
THAT is what the poll is about.
In other words, it's about BLAME, and BLAME is what has been heaped upon women since Eve plucked the apple and ate from it. THAT is the crux here. Men like to put the blame ELSEwhere. THAT's why they put muslim women into burkas - because it's THEIR fault when they offer an excuse for men to violate them.
And sure as sh!t the same people as always have a problem to understand the relevant facts. I'm not surprised.
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Salamandre
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posted December 06, 2016 11:26 PM |
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So, 55% males from a given country claim excusing rape if specific circumstances but won't do it when such circumstances are fulfilled. They won't rape but walk away.
Then in countries around, everyone is proudly yelling how inexcusable rape is under any circumstances, but then they will rape women up to 20 more times when the so-called inexcusable circumstances are meet. Hope you follow me, because then you see the nonsense you all pull there.
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artu
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posted December 06, 2016 11:37 PM |
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That is just ignoring all previous replies to why that can be so
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JollyJoker
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posted December 06, 2016 11:58 PM |
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I actually like to put the feet back under you, because RAPE is the most underreported crime. So the thing is, in Sweden, EVERY rape is reported (overstating here), while in Romania only 1 out of 20 rapes is reported (because it's hopeless anyway) - so there you are:
There is a correlation between the "report rate" and the "excuse rate" - I shouldn't even have to be writing this. The higher the excuse rate the lower the report rate - I mean, that's obvious.
Now, when evidentially intelligent people overlook the obvious, well, make your own conclusion.
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artu
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posted December 07, 2016 12:17 AM |
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Not just that, I mentioned that two times already. Sal's original position on Sweden rape rates is "it's because of Muslim immigration" and now putting Sweden as a refutation is actually inconsistent with his own argument because it was him who proposed Muslims rape more because their culture is more apologist.
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JollyJoker
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posted December 07, 2016 12:29 AM |
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Man, you mentioned it TWENTY times already, problem is, you can mention it another twenty, it won't have any effect. 
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fred79
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posted December 07, 2016 08:21 AM |
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yeah, i know, right? how could we be so dumb?
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This thread is pages long: 
