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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 05, 2016 09:44 PM |
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There are other interpretations, of course, just not plausible ones.
I used to scoff when feminists talked about rape culture. But statements like Trump's and the excuse-making that some engage in persuaded me that it's a real problem.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 05, 2016 09:52 PM |
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Yes, how people talk is a huge problem nowadays. Trump verbally raped thousands only during the presidential campaign, from what I can see some of the victims even post in this forum. You should become a feminist and stop that insanity.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted December 05, 2016 10:12 PM |
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Zenofex said:
If "they let you do it" is considered a rape...
Considered by whom?
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted December 05, 2016 10:31 PM |
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Well in my country I think I read about someone getting sexually assaulted in the news every other day, but perhaps those news are just more impactful and it isn't nearly as frequent.
Anyway I remember two cases that brought my attention to how screwed our legal system is.
In one case a woman is being raped by 3 guys at some kind of carnival or similar event, but because she didn't resist enough, the initial verdict was that the 3 guys were acquitted. However this caused a huge political uproar and talk about changing and specifying the law, etc. etc. I however suspect nothing happens as the appeal at the higher judicial instance led to conviction.
In another case a woman is being sexually assaulted by someone who has some kind of authority over her, and while she shows during the act she doesn't like it and it's painful, because she didn't resist enough the police evaluated it wasn't possible to get a verdict and nothing more happened. Of course the same person continued, but this time with someone underaged and this time he's going to court and it may be certain he'll be found guilty since he already admitted to it.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 05, 2016 11:56 PM |
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There are, of course, situations where without any verbal confirmation, a man can understand that a woman will let her do things. Sometimes even a sudden eye contact can tell a lot. It's also quite easy to see that fame is an aphrodisiac for many people, and when you're famous you are more likely to encounter such situations.
However, there are also situations, again, also quite common, that fame gets to people's heads and they start to imagine they are irresistable demi-gods, causing them to believe everybody would consider themselves lucky to sleep with them even when no situation like the one above is existent. Look what happened to Bill Cosby, once one woman was brave enough to come forward, many more stepped out of the shadows saying they were raped.
Looking at Trump's character, I'd say it's very probable he would be a Cosby case but I havent read any of the allegations myself, so, I can't claim anything.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 06, 2016 09:54 AM |
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If he did something including constraint and there were clear signs that he must stop, he fully deserves a condemnation. Accusations like the ones posted here however are of the "I don't like him, he must be a rapist too" variety which are just badly camouflaged vented frustration from the fact that he won the elections. Nitpicking some vague statement he made amounts to just that.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 06, 2016 10:12 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 10:14, 06 Dec 2016.
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mvassilev said:
I'm not talking about the accusations, but about what he said himself: "I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."
This is not enough to make a case for sexual assault. Not waiting more likely means skipping chatter or foreplay than non-consent, the latter barely following logically. Letting you do it can swing either way, consented or not. Putting things into context might also prove crucial, I believe it was Sal who pointed out how women in such environments know what they're there for and that they're willing to go all the way if required. So from an outsider's perspective, building a case for sexual assault off of just that is grasping at straws.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 06, 2016 10:15 AM |
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Zenofex said:
Nitpicking some vague statement he made amounts to just that.
Inform yourself, it's a tape of a lockroom talk. It's hard to deffendd him after hear "I just grab them by the pussy!".
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 06, 2016 10:27 AM |
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I'm not "defending" him, just commenting what other people post here. I am probably among the last people in the world who would like to advocate for Trump and his likes. Haven't heard the recording either but "grab them by the pussy" still doesn't mean that "they" objected. Personally I'd approve a nice kick in the balls as a response to something like that, it will deliver the message much better than some shallow, second-hand attempts at feminist philosophy in Internet.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 06, 2016 10:47 AM |
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"Grab them by the pussy" -or similar macho ones- is a common statement among super-rich brats who know their money give them rights you don't have with the girl next door. It is not your friend or your sister who will find herself locked in a room with a millionaire, but a specific category of women, the ones who gravitate in such specific circles and which the common people only glimpse at through tabloids scandals.
Just an insight, most famous actors/politics/business men have slept with several thousands of men/women each and this has nothing to do with the the standard romanticized vision about love or men/women social rapports. It doesn't imply that such rapports are always forced but that they are greatly simplified as the most conditions are filled by default. And of course, when is forced, punishment should occur, as for everyone else, but statistics show there is nothing really to worry about. Rapes occurring in rich individuals circles are extremely rare and where there is one -as for Strauss Khan last year- there is enough media coverage to make them unforgettable.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 06, 2016 11:15 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 11:17, 06 Dec 2016.
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i think we're veering off-topic, but:
i don't think some people realize that things like female groupies or females who love sex for sex's sake still exist, despite feminists' claims to the contrary. these "bad ol' men who like to get physical with innocent and pure ladies", is a mostly laughable idea. sure, there are bad apples, you'd be stupid to not deny that; but too much, the fact that there are SOME bad apples seems to be enough for snowheads to exploit it as a common-enough occurrence, that suddenly everyone(read, MALES) who does anything even remotely sexual or lust-driven in nature are suddenly all rapists. 
@ nobody in particular: i really hate the demonizing of sexuality itself(mainly perpetrated by sjw dumbasses and feminists). sexuality is not rape. pleasure is not rape. attraction to someone is not rape. touching someone's skin(even accidentally) is not rape. get it right, goddamn it. you bozos will snow anything up just to try and prove that you have something important to say in the insignificant lives you have(ok, this last part is aimed at the sjw's, their sympathizers, and feminists).
edit: can't use the "s" word for female hounddogs? wtf.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 06, 2016 11:45 AM |
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I know, I'll regret it, but this is solely about double moral.
There is a simple rule: Look, but don't touch - and provocation doesn't count as an excuse. You just have to look at stuff that is important to males: Male comes and boasts with his Ferrari or Porsche; same thing: Look, but don't touch. No judge will follow you, when you steal the ride, claiming, I couldn't resist, how could he park that beauty right before my nose? It wasn't even locked. I HAD to try it. It's stealing a car, locked or not, because you don't own it.
Same with TOUCHING (not to mention assaulting): you don't own that skin, so hands off. And if you ARE allowed to touch the hood, it does NOT mean, it's a free pass for a free ride.
NO means NO, period.
That so difficult?
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted December 06, 2016 11:49 AM |
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Wrong analogy. Yes, it's not the victim fault, but it's always better to be safe than sorry. If you want a better analogy is leaving your car open in a bad neighborhood over night, you are just asking it to be stolen.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 06, 2016 11:53 AM |
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@Zenofex I know you aren't deffending him, just saying it's something you should hear by yourself.
@Salamandre I'm not naive, otoh I can't imagine those words comming from Barack's mouth, can you? As a matter of fact I can't imagine them said by anyone I have regarded as a 'leader' in my personal life (significant teachers, bosses, etc...).
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 06, 2016 12:45 PM |
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I don't see the point. Barack Obama was not in competition with Trump, Clinton was. Also BO is obviously an educated man, with honorable standard values, but this didn't prevent him to be majorly considered as one of the worst USA leaders ever. If Americans want an immaculate personality to lead them, then they will have to give up on their "american dream" stereotypes, as well as on the rotten system allowing only super-rich people to run for nation key jobs.
But I am not sure that when Obama ends his speeches with the usual "our nation is the greatest ever" -which btw would be considered as plain racist and fascist in any other country worldwide, he thinks primarily at the moral issues.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 06, 2016 01:00 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Wrong analogy. Yes, it's not the victim fault, but it's always better to be safe than sorry. If you want a better analogy is leaving your car open in a bad neighborhood over night, you are just asking it to be stolen.
RIGHT analogy. It's just that you don't accept it, and that's just telling, isn't it? It's not about "bad neighborhood", except if you want to describe men in general that way. If someone touches your car, and they go on touching it, force open the door, short-wiring it ... no judge in the world will accept an excuse like, hey, that car, parked under my nose, I just couldn't resist, it's a provocation - the owner should have a garage for that one or make it uglier. Why? Because it's YOURS and YOUR decision alone, who can touch it, open it, drive it. And if you don't mind someone touching it, that doesn't mean he's invited to drive it as well.
You either understand that No means No and that has to be enough or you don't - and that's what it's all about; there isn't actually anything to discuss, when it comes to male interests and points, but in this case there is? You should know better.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 06, 2016 01:44 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 13:53, 06 Dec 2016.
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JollyJoker said:
I know, I'll regret it, but this is solely about double moral.
There is a simple rule: Look, but don't touch - and provocation doesn't count as an excuse. You just have to look at stuff that is important to males: Male comes and boasts with his Ferrari or Porsche; same thing: Look, but don't touch. No judge will follow you, when you steal the ride, claiming, I couldn't resist, how could he park that beauty right before my nose? It wasn't even locked. I HAD to try it. It's stealing a car, locked or not, because you don't own it.
Same with TOUCHING (not to mention assaulting): you don't own that skin, so hands off. And if you ARE allowed to touch the hood, it does NOT mean, it's a free pass for a free ride.
NO means NO, period.
That so difficult?
"no" doesn't always mean "no". as daniel tosh once said, "We're all adults here. No doesn't mean no. No means go for the neck & the nipples & try back in five minutes."
let me ask you something: have you ever flirted with anyone? have you ever had anyone flirt with you? no? then you don't get to tell people that touching is rape. come to think of it, even if you've ACTUALLY BEEN RAPED, you don't get to tell people that touching is rape. touching may lead to rape, but it is not rape itself.
no, touching is not rape(it may be considered assault if the touching isn't warmly welcomed, but not snowing rape). no matter how much some people like to think it is. hell, some people even think that LOOKING is rape. and those people need to never, never breed, or be in a position of influence. because they have absolutely lost touch with reality.
is that so difficult to comprehend? hmm?
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted December 06, 2016 01:55 PM |
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Is going to a girl at a bar and just slipping your finger into her panties without asking, flirting?
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 06, 2016 02:03 PM |
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Minion said:
Is going to a girl at a bar and just slipping your finger into her panties without asking, flirting?
no, that's a porno.
but just for the sake of argument, just how many times do you think something like this happens? ever seen/heard it happen? ever did it yourself? because i haven't; not once. although, to be honest, i'm sure it's happened at least once. and more often than not, i'm willing to wager(in the few times that specific thing has actually happened), it was greeted warmly, maybe even reciprocated by the girl grabbing your junk.
and why? because it's a bar, and people feel sexy/horny when they're drunk. that IS the reason why girls go to sausage-fest bars, anyway. to have a good time and/or hook up.
i mean, do i really have to break this down for people?
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 06, 2016 06:09 PM |
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Attending the same party as Trump isn't consent to any kind of sexual activity with him (or anyone). It's true that money and status can make you more sexually appealing in some people's eyes, but even then you have to get their consent - otherwise, you'd be committing sexual assault, and that's what "I don't even wait" implies.
"No doesn't mean no" is obviously sexual assault, and I genuinely hope that women stay away from anyone who thinks otherwise. If you go to a bar, you may hope to find someone to sleep with, but that doesn't mean arbitrary people can initiate sexual activity with you without your consent.
Reading this topic, the poll results become less and less surprising. So much rape apologism.
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Eccentric Opinion
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