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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 07, 2016 08:32 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
in Sweden, EVERY rape is reported (overstating here), while in Romania only 1 out of 20 rapes is reported (because it's hopeless anyway)
And you pulled that out of where, proofs? Are you sure you weren't talking about your own country where it took police 6 month to confess 600 sexual aggressions which took place on new year, then it took 1 more year to finally arrest no more than 2 people?
And no, Sweden doesn't report all rapes, but hide them when in embarrass. Does this sound familiar to you?
We have now alternative medias everywhere, so all those delusional lies come out anyway, let's stop the demagogy. Laughable that you all come first with statistics when it serves you then refute them when not. Already seen it.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 07, 2016 08:56 AM |
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It's not about alternative medias or reporting it to the media. Reporting rape is not like reporting car-theft for a person, some of them even don't come forward even in most liberal-minded countries, if there is a social stigma however, that is so much more the case. They dont even report it to the police. Some countries even have special units for that, with psychologists specialized in dealing with making the rape victims feel comfortable coming forward and so on.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 07, 2016 09:03 AM |
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I still fail to see why the Balkan countries are higher in the rape list because in Sweden women allegedly report rates more often. You mix facts with assumptions in a not-exactly-conscientious manner.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 07, 2016 09:13 AM |
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I didn't use real figures (if those were known there ouldn't be polls like these), but instead simply took some to make it obvious. If the numbers were known they didn't have to be estimated (and I have no idea what hats they pull the estimations out).
@ Zeno
"Rape" is based on whether the victim did consent to something or not. You can compare it with theft of something you own by your friend. If you live with someone, that someone goes and "steals" your TV, it is difficult to proof 1) that it was yours in the first place; 2) to proff otherwise when your friend says you "gifted" it to him, so there was no theft.
Now if a significant number of people think you shouldn't live like man and woman if not married, and that includes random members of the police as well, you will think twice before reporting that theft. The victims THEMSELVES may even blame themselves, falling for it, thinking, well, they were right, that's what I got from it.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 07, 2016 09:49 AM |
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Zenofex said:
I still fail to see why the Balkan countries are higher in the rape list because in Sweden women allegedly report rates more often. You mix facts with assumptions in a not-exactly-conscientious manner.
Actually, what I've been telling from the start is that rape rates and rate apologism are different aspects of the issue, it is Sal who assumes the poll is completely inaccurate because "rape rates are higher in Sweden" meanwhile claiming they are higher because of Muslim immigrants (which refutes his own objection.)
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 07, 2016 10:06 AM |
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What I refute is the poll accuracy, is shows like a big block without any angles. The fact that there are muslims in a country doesn't change anything, they were supposed to answer to the poll like anyone else, but we don't know from which areas they picked people and so on.
When you poll an eastern country, the main difference will be rural vs urban education, when you poll an EU country, depending on which areas you pick, you will have different civilization concepts and conflicts. This is why such polls, nowadays, can be extremely confusing and inaccurate.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 07, 2016 12:17 PM |
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If you look at the actual source, the Eurobarometer, then you will see that this was just ONE of a lot of poll questions - which are also pretty interesting, by the way - and that the percentage listed by the post is the percentage of people who listed AT LEAST ONE of the reasons:
"UE28
EU28" BE BG CZ DK D-W DE D-E EE IE EL ES FR HR IT CY LV LT LU HU MT NL AT PL PT RO SI SK FI SE UK
TOTAL 27818 1029 1001 1060 1010 1052 1585 533 1001 1002 1000 1008 1009 1026 1013 501 1010 1004 508 1046 500 1003 1016 1002 1000 1007 1012 1008 1042 1109 1306
Porter une tenue légère, provocante ou sexy 2834 154 ^ 129 ^ 109 22 v 94 144 53 101 94 111 25 v 166 ^ 164 ^ 102 73 ^ 158 ^ 100 86 ^ 215 ^ 98 ^ 55 v 89 98 125 ^ 248 ^ 69 v 162 ^ 36 v 20 v 81 v
Wearing revealing, provocative or sexy clothing 10% 15% 13% 10% 2% 9% 9% 10% 10% 9% 11% 2% 16% 16% 10% 15% 16% 10% 17% 21% 20% 6% 9% 10% 12% 25% 7% 16% 3% 2% 6%
Etre ivre ou prendre de la drogue 3340 183 ^ 209 ^ 130 22 v 84 v 135 v 58 126 110 107 25 v 153 ^ 191 ^ 138 88 ^ 199 ^ 141 85 ^ 247 ^ 89 ^ 50 v 147 ^ 120 194 ^ 306 ^ 79 v 143 25 v 18 v 154
Being drunk or using drugs 12% 18% 21% 12% 2% 8% 9% 11% 13% 11% 11% 2% 15% 19% 14% 18% 20% 14% 17% 24% 18% 5% 15% 12% 19% 30% 8% 14% 2% 2% 12%
Flirter au préalable 1982 112 ^ 139 ^ 180 ^ 42 v 62 105 51 ^ 78 70 76 18 v 63 150 ^ 62 46 128 ^ 120 ^ 37 200 ^ 65 ^ 67 62 72 51 v 169 ^ 43 v 131 ^ 37 v 25 v 74
Flirting beforehand 7% 11% 14% 17% 4% 6% 7% 10% 8% 7% 8% 2% 6% 15% 6% 9% 13% 12% 7% 19% 13% 7% 6% 7% 5% 17% 4% 13% 4% 2% 6%
Ne pas dire clairement non ou ne pas s’y opposer physiquement 2831 143 ^ 161 ^ 198 ^ 57 v 117 220 ^ 132 ^ 109 80 v 163 ^ 30 v 121 ^ 92 73 v 68 ^ 111 102 76 ^ 152 ^ 56 76 v 122 ^ 91 100 219 ^ 48 v 133 ^ 64 v 39 v 81 v
Not clearly saying no or physically fighting back 10% 14% 16% 19% 6% 11% 14% 25% 11% 8% 16% 3% 12% 9% 7% 14% 11% 10% 15% 14% 11% 8% 12% 9% 10% 22% 5% 13% 6% 4% 6%
Marcher seule la nuit 1922 119 ^ 78 92 ^ 9 v 36 v 62 v 30 41 v 74 43 v 6 v 90 ^ 41 v 103 ^ 26 126 ^ 68 49 ^ 191 ^ 25 41 v 82 85 ^ 146 ^ 163 ^ 36 v 89 ^ 16 v 18 v 64 v
Being out walking alone at night 7% 12% 8% 9% 1% 3% 4% 6% 4% 7% 4% 1% 9% 4% 10% 5% 12% 7% 10% 18% 5% 4% 8% 9% 15% 16% 4% 9% 2% 2% 5%
Avoir plusieurs partenaires sexuels 1940 115 ^ 53 v 102 ^ 20 v 56 v 97 48 35 v 68 84 13 v 85 59 74 47 78 78 52 ^ 188 ^ 55 ^ 45 v 97 ^ 74 132 ^ 205 ^ 41 v 101 ^ 37 v 25 v 48 v
Having several sexual partners 7% 11% 5% 10% 2% 5% 6% 9% 4% 7% 8% 1% 8% 6% 7% 9% 8% 8% 10% 18% 11% 4% 10% 7% 13% 20% 4% 10% 4% 2% 4%
Se rendre volontairement chez quelqu’un, par exemple après une fête ou un rendez-vous galant 2976 166 ^ 167 ^ 196 ^ 67 v 111 199 ^ 111 ^ 111 86 v 151 ^ 28 v 72 v 111 147 ^ 75 ^ 205 ^ 122 78 ^ 214 ^ 65 71 v 112 102 155 ^ 263 ^ 84 v 140 ^ 69 v 32 v 70 v
Voluntarily going home with someone, for example after a party or date 11% 16% 17% 18% 7% 11% 13% 21% 11% 9% 15% 3% 7% 11% 15% 15% 20% 12% 15% 20% 13% 7% 11% 10% 15% 26% 8% 14% 7% 3% 5%
Si l’agresseur est ivre et ne se rend pas compte de ses actes 1200 83 ^ 76 ^ 29 24 v 24 v 35 v 9 v 26 35 22 v 7 v 103 ^ 47 36 20 40 27 45 ^ 46 24 37 63 ^ 31 27 108 ^ 28 59 ^ 15 v 30 48
If the assailant does not realise what they were doing 4% 8% 8% 3% 2% 2% 2% 2% 3% 3% 2% 1% 10% 5% 4% 4% 4% 3% 9% 4% 5% 4% 6% 3% 3% 11% 3% 6% 1% 3% 4%
Si l’agresseur regrette ses actes par la suite 570 54 ^ 20 22 9 v 12 v 18 v 7 9 v 26 ^ 11 v 3 v 34 ^ 24 14 v 10 34 ^ 21 10 29 ^ 16 24 38 ^ 17 11 v 40 ^ 13 v 27 ^ 3 v 23 37 ^
If the assailant regrets his actions 2% 5% 2% 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 3% 1% 0% 3% 2% 1% 2% 3% 2% 2% 3% 3% 2% 4% 2% 1% 4% 1% 3% 0% 2% 3%
Aucune 18938 588 v 487 v 576 v 841 ^ 733 1061 300 v 668 764 ^ 667 894 ^ 644 v 551 v 702 319 562 v 661 294 v 526 v 311 v 843 ^ 627 v 621 v 659 407 v 766 ^ 532 v 916 ^ 1036 ^ 944 ^
None of these 68% 57% 49% 54% 83% 70% 67% 56% 67% 76% 67% 89% 64% 54% 69% 64% 56% 66% 58% 50% 62% 84% 62% 62% 66% 40% 76% 53% 88% 93% 72%
Refus (SPONTANE) 253 4 v 11 10 14 12 21 12 ^ 8 3 v 2 v 11 5 v 14 7 2 v 7 5 8 9 1 v 1 v 35 ^ 11 2 v 0 17 ^ 27 ^ 0 0 v 17
Refusal (SPONTANEOUS) 1% 0% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 0% 0% 1% 0% 1% 1% 0% 1% 1% 1% 1% 0% 0% 3% 1% 0% - 2% 3% - 0% 1%
NSP 1037 24 v 70 ^ 25 v 21 v 55 74 ^ 13 v 64 ^ 26 8 v 24 v 42 84 ^ 19 v 6 v 59 ^ 48 14 20 v 7 v 4 v 30 70 ^ 45 45 28 49 10 v 5 v 63
DK 4% 2% 7% 2% 2% 5% 5% 2% 6% 3% 1% 2% 4% 8% 2% 1% 6% 5% 3% 2% 1% 0% 3% 7% 4% 4% 3% 5% 1% 0% 5%
Total 'Au moins une des situations justifie' 7590 413 ^ 432 ^ 449 ^ 133 v 253 v 428 208 ^ 261 209 v 322 ^ 79 v 317 ^ 376 ^ 285 175 ^ 382 ^ 289 193 ^ 491 ^ 181 ^ 155 v 324 ^ 300 ^ 294 555 ^ 202 v 399 ^ 115 v 68 v 283 v
Total 'At least one situation justifies it' 27% 40% 43% 42% 13% 24% 27% 39% 26% 21% 32% 8% 31% 37% 28% 35% 38% 29% 38% 47% 36% 15% 32% 30% 29% 55% 20% 40% 11% 6% 22%
The 55% of Romania is actually the "At least one situation justifies it". The actual figures are, however:
25% - Wearing provocative clothing
30% - Being drunk or using drugs
17% - Flirting beforehand
22% - Not clearly saying no or physically fighting back
16% - Being out walking alone at night
20% - Having several sex partners
26% - Voluntary going home with someone after a date
11% - Assailant doesn't realize what they are doing
4% - Assailant regrets action
Romania is in the lead with the first two, while more Hungarians seem to think flirtatious behavior is an invitation to rape.
It also seems that more people in Eastern Germany would need a palpable reminder that their actions are unwanted than in Romania, while being out alone in the night would seem to be more dangerous in Hungary.
Having several sex partners and voluntary home-going sees a clear Romanian lead, while they share that lead with France when it comes to not realizing what you are doing, even though it has to be said that the population seems generally more prone to blame it on the girl
than to buy an excuse, like, I really thought her no meant yes.
Lastly, regret after the deed isn't highly rated - but in Belgium higher than in Romania, Austria being as prone to forgive than Romania.
I think, the figure for "being out walking alone at night" is the (secret) "muslim number" - or let's call it "fundamentalist number" - , because if someone really thinks a woman being out alone at night and then raped has asked for it, must be pretty fundamentalist in their views.
There is a marked difference here to countries like Scandinavia, Spain, Western Germany and so on, with their percentages of 1-3%
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 07, 2016 09:09 PM |
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lol, i think you guys are taking this poll thing way too seriously. 
i mean, really. it's not like it's the word of god or anything.
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted December 07, 2016 09:14 PM |
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fred79 said:
it's not like it's the word of god or anything.
Would it be taken that seriously in that case?
____________
Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 07, 2016 10:37 PM |
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 08, 2016 12:21 AM |
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Stevie said:
Anyway, maybe we need another thread for off-topic like this.
yeah. we can call it: "polls, and how they are literally the word of god, and thus, infallible".
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 15, 2016 10:21 PM |
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted December 15, 2016 10:24 PM |
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Sounds fantastic, thank you for sharing Stevie, I look forward to read it.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 19, 2016 12:50 AM |
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted December 19, 2016 07:02 PM |
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 19, 2016 07:26 PM |
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it looks to be unbelievable that a Russian ambassador just fulfills his public tasks in a Muslim country without tons of Russian bodyguards as he should. The shooter could brag and shout Alahu Akbar for several minutes while nobody disturbed him. Sad.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 19, 2016 07:45 PM |
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Edited by artu at 19:50, 19 Dec 2016.
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Well, everybody panicked and run, he says "allah-u ekber, you wont be safe here while our brothers die in Syria, you'll only take me dead." They had to shoot him. What do you mean "not disturbed?"
1- Syria conflict between US and Russia.
2- Fethullah Gulen who resides in the US, with a special insist from CIA chief, tries a failed coup attempt in Turkey.
3- Gulen's countless crypto men in military and police force surface out, they are arrested and investigated, the general who ordered the Russian plane down a year ago, also one of Gulen's coup men.
4- Russia had shared intelligence during coup, relations start to get back on track, Turkish forces are in Syria fighting ISIS (and Kurds), US and EU object.
5- While Turkish minister of Foreign Affairs is on his way to Russia, ambassador gets shot during first official event after plane down.
Do you really think this is about Islam because the hit man shouts "Allah" during assassination?
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 19, 2016 07:52 PM |
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artu said:
What do you mean "not disturbed?"
I saw the video of the shooting, he brags around several minutes, before being neutralized. Knowing the russians behavior in such situations, I only conclude there was not a single one around.
artu said:
Do you really think this is about Islam because the hit man shouts "Allah" during assassination?
First, I did not say that, just reporting what he did during several minutes. But now that you ask, of course Islam is a big part in the trigger, why else someone would shoot another human while bowing to his god?
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted December 19, 2016 07:53 PM |
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It's always about politics, even in the crusades it was about politics. Religion is just the very good fassade.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 19, 2016 07:57 PM |
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Semantics. Politics equal power.
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This thread is pages long: 
