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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 22, 2016 03:14 PM |
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@ Salamandre
First of all I don't understand why you come up with FRENCH financial regulations for artists, when we talk about a prize afforded by the BRITISH BAFTA. What has that got to do with anything?
Then, a movie or TV production involves A LOT of people and A LOT of money (I don't need to explain that to you). If you want to do something in that business you NEED financial backing, obviously, because if you can finance this yourself, well, then you can do what you want anyway.
Let's take a recent example I don't need to look up because I read it. The US TV show Nashville had been cancelled by its studio ABC after 4 seasons, but it was picked up by another studio for a fifth.
HOWEVER: Quote:
The pick-up was assisted by $11 million in economic incentives: $8.5 million comes via the State of Tennessee Film Office, $1 million from the City of Nashville, $1 million from the Nashville Convention & Visitor Corp and $500,000 from Ryman Hospitality.
That's "interested parties", obviously, paying money, expecting promotion of Tennessee and Nashville, I'd imagine.
Now, obviously, you do not HAVE to go to BAFTA and ask for money to finance your idea - IF your ideas are not in line with BFI's Diversity Standards, you can always try and get funded ELSEWHERE. Take, for example, the story, how the Terminator movie was funded:
Quote:
Gale Anne Hurd, who had worked at New World Pictures as Roger Corman's assistant, showed interest in the film project. Cameron sold the rights for The Terminator to Hurd for one dollar with the promise that she would produce it only if Cameron was to direct it. As a producer, Hurd had suggested edits to the script and took a screen writing credit in the film. Cameron has stated that Hurd "did no actual writing at all". Cameron and Hurd had friends who worked with Roger Corman previously and who were now working at Orion Pictures, now part of MGM. Orion agreed to distribute the film if Cameron could get financial backing elsewhere. The script was picked up by John Daly at Hemdale Pictures.
Cameron wanted his pitch for Daly to finalize the deal and had his friend Lance Henriksen show up to the meeting early dressed and acting like the Terminator. Henriksen showed up at the office kicking open the door wearing a leather jacket, and had gold foil smothered on his teeth and fake cuts on his face and then sat in a chair. Cameron arrived shortly after which relieved the staff from Henriksen's act. Daly was impressed by the screenplay and Cameron's sketches and passion for the film. In late 1982, Daly agreed to back the film with help from HBO and Orion. The Terminator was originally budgeted at $4 million and later raised to $6.5 million.
So what has that got do with it? I'd say it's common that they who give money want to have a certain say about things. That was always so and didn't keep the Renaissance artists from doing great stuff.
I also think this answers your latest point: Quote:
And financially is a humbug, the artists are simply stripped of their most basic rights.
Obviously they are not, because they don't have any RIGHT to claim any money for themselves for "art projects".
Now, my main point here was - and still is, and you are jut diverting - that your initial post wasn't true, which is why I linked to an interesting article as well, since your post was actually a good example: facts are warped and overstated and then a completely fabricated headline is produced - in case of the internet to get clicks, in your case because you are probably biassed into believing it because it fits into your world view (it's "typical for those clueless bureaucrats who with their political correctness will produce only mediocricy").
Pointing to the classics again, I think that can be safely considered not true: just because they were forced to keep to certain standards, working for the church, they didn't produce mediocricy. Meaning, a mediocre artist will produce mediocre art, no matter what, while a good one will produce good art, no matter what.
In the end, is the most natural thing in the world that you have to make compromises as long as you are not in a position to finance the things you want to do. That is so, when you are a child - you want allowance, you have to make compromises with your parents. And that is so when you start your artistic career.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 22, 2016 03:35 PM |
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First, french taxing artistic projects is 100% the one in UK or else in western EU, elsewhere you would have thousand of artists immigrating. Secondly, I do not care so much about the financial system of Bafta, only answered you on that matter: since the state is taking money from artists without giving anything in return, it looks odd to me to include PC demands when asked to refund.
Then the whole mess is not about minorities or Bafta in particular. Is about redefining secular values. The best British movie definition is that one movie was selected as best from a whole list of movies, for its artistic qualities, interpretation, music, etc. Every of its components proved to be top quality.
If one wants a movie with minorities, he creates a prize rewarding an actor from minorities, or a subject about, etc. Saying something can be rewarded as best ONLY because it has a guy in wheelchair, or a gay, or a black actor etc is mixing up things. And if you look at people's comments in your own links, you will see there is a scenarist there saying he indeed will be looking elsewhere for money help, as there is out of question the state politically influences artistic creation. For me that means a brake in artistic freedom, as this shows that people will be helped or not independently of their talent or creativity, but on their capacity of making compromises.
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted December 22, 2016 03:55 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Well, give me then an example where the church used its repressive system for prohibiting an artist to express blasphemy views. For example, the self portrait of Durer or the fact that Da Vinci's Virgin on the Rocks has no halo. Considered as blasphemy by the church, yet it is there, not prohibited, not destroyed.
To add to this:
Caravaggio also used prostitutes as models when he painted the Holy Virgin, or beggars and thieves as the models for saints.
In the end he was given the death penalty, but for being a murderer, not because he was a blasphemer.
And that was in the period of the counter-reform.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 22, 2016 04:15 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Well, give me then an example where the church used its repressive system for prohibiting an artist to express blasphemy views. For example, the self portrait of Durer or the fact that Da Vinci's Virgin on the Rocks has no halo. Considered as blasphemy by the church, yet it is there, not prohibited, not destroyed.
Just because they didnt destroy a holy figure with no halo does not mean they were not intrusive, when you read that period's artists life stories, they are in constant argument with their church patrons about what to paint, how to paint, what not to paint... I dont know how can such a thing be linked on the internet though. But for example, in your Virgin on the Rocks, even the colors which will be used is in the contract. The level of intrusion the artists of the past had to deal with was beyond compareable to today's standards.
And Neraus, who you use as models is not something thematic, but you having information about this after centuries means it was something controversial and it caused reaction.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 22, 2016 05:00 PM |
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Well, we went far away. The point is you don't give the prize of the best American car but then limit competition to only cars who used electricity (or other unimportant detail). The winner will be the best car between the cars using electricity, period. Is a farce.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 22, 2016 05:37 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Well, we went far away. The point is you don't give the prize of the best American car but then limit competition to only cars who used electricity (or other unimportant detail). The winner will be the best car between the cars using electricity, period. Is a farce.
Except that it's not, considering there are 25 awards for films and 25 more for TV, with only 2 of those being affected. Which is Outstanding debut of a writer, producer or director and the award for outstanding British film, incidentally 2 awards NOT coming with the attribute "best", but outstanding.
And the point is that you are making false or uninformed claims. Wrong comparisons. Wrong summaries.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 22, 2016 05:43 PM |
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Oh well, we are back where we started.
Your link specifies:
The most direct change is in the eligibility criteria for two of its award categories: outstanding British film; and outstanding debut by a British writer, director or producer
Bafta has now instituted a requirement that, from 2019, films put forward must conform to the BFI’s Diversity Standards, which were established in 2014 to increase participation and representation of minorities and socially disadvantaged in British film.
So please, I can accept you being insulting as I am used to, but this is clearly considering I am a Klingon. Ok my fault I confused best with outstanding but not intentionally and is not like they are different, outstanding means best quality. It is written clearly that the most outstanding british film criteria is now changed. Stop playing on the words and answer the main question: how the use of minorities can be a condition to artwork being outstanding?
A few comments from your link:
"To qualify for award nomination, film-makers will have to show they have “worked to increase the representation of under-represented groups” in areas including “onscreen representation” and “industry access and opportunities."
If they can't show this to a satisfactory level, does that mean the film is excluded from the awards?
What if it's the best film with the best performances?
***************
I guess the answer is yes. It is a sad state of affairs in this country that no one can make a film and regardless on how good it is if it doesn't confirm to a list of rules it won't win any awards at Bafta. I won't watch anymore, I dont need to see bureaucracy in selecting films only talent regardless of background, race or creed.
Extreme:
Yep, it seems that in future the question of whether a particular movie is the year's 'outstanding British film' will hang on whether they sound guy's grandparents were from Bangladesh.
My brothers Klingon, without doubt.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 22, 2016 07:44 PM |
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Yes, it seems to be. Because I see only polemics. If you'd bother to actually look at the standards ... I linked you to it, but obviously to no avail, so I will post them here, maybe you'll bother to read them. I hope you get the principle: there are 3 sections, and TWO of the 50 awards are linked with the prerequisite that 2 of the 3 are fulfilled. They ARE fulfilled, if a certain number of the options is fulfilled, the number of which is listed at the end and is 50, 50 and 40% respectively. That isn't much of a stranglehold here.
Quote:
ON SCREEN REPRESENTATION,
THEMES & NARRATIVES
This section considers the representation and recognition of specific groups on screen. For example, does the project present unfamiliar characters or themes that are not frequently portrayed on screen? Or does it offer a familiar story, character or theme from a new perspective? Are there complex representations of characters
who are normally relegated to two-dimensional roles? What is the perspective of the narrative, and how does this affect how characters are portrayed?
THERE ARE 6 OPTIONS IN THIS SECTION:
A1 Meaningful representations of diversity in main protagonists
&/or antagonists
A2 Meaningful representations of diversity in primary or overall
themes & narratives
A3 Meaningful or unfamiliar representations of diversity
in secondary themes & narratives
A4 Meaningful representation of place (e.g. nations, regions
or communities that are under-represented on screen)
A5 Meaningful representations of diversity in background & sundry
characters who are pertinent to the narrative & themes
A6 Non-specific representation (e.g. casting not intrinsically
based on or related to specific under-represented groups)
AT LEAST 3 OF THE 6 AREAS NEED TO BE ADDRESSED TO MEET STANDARD A
STANDARD B
PROJECT LEADERSHIP &
CREATIVE PRACTITIONERS
This section looks at where artistic leadership is delivered by individuals from one or more of the under-represented groups. Is this likely to have a positive outcome on the project? Does it introduce a new voice, or carry the potential to open doors that have historically been closed?
Where it is too early in the process to confirm roles, or you are in the process of recruiting, we would expect to see clarity of intention in regards to searching for diverse staff. Where
possible your application should also demonstrate how you are changing your recruitment practices; how, when and where are you recruiting? Are interview venues and workplaces accessible? Do you offer additional support for specific access requirements, including travel?
Allowances will be made for projects with smaller teams (e.g. documentaries, smaller festivals and programme projects).
THERE ARE 4 OPTIONS IN THIS SECTION:
B1 At least 3 of Director, Scriptwriter, Principal Producer, Composer, DoP, Editor, Costume Designer and Production Designer
For Programmes & Festivals: where the artistic leadership is delivered by individuals from one or more of the under-represented groups
B2 At least 6 other key roles (which could be mid-level crew & technical positions, or other roles where there is existing under-representation)For Programmes & Festivals: at least 6 other key project staff
B3 At least half of all crew or project staff are a mix of under-represented groups, in a variety of departments and varying levels of seniority
B4 Productions located in the UK outside Greater London that
demonstrate an intention to offer substantial local employment
AT LEAST 2 OF THE 4 AREAS NEED TO BE ADDRESSED TO MEET STANDARD B
STANDARD C
INDUSTRY ACCESS& OPPORTUNITIES
This is a required section for all funds apart from Completion Funding, and considers the value of the work experience and development opportunities offered. If possible, you should name the roles you would be looking to offer to trainees / apprentices, or name the individual who is going to progress to a more senior role.
For projects run by volunteers, please state how you will engage volunteers from one or more of the identified under-represented groups.
THERE ARE 5 OPTIONS IN THIS SECTION:
C1 Paid employment opportunities (such as apprenticeships,
internships, expert advisers)
C2 Training opportunities & skills development
(craft, creative & business) including one-off,
bespoke & student work-experience opportunities
C3 Promotion in a role that constitutes career progression
for at least one crew/team member
C4 ‘First job’ in a role that constitutes career progression
from prior training
C5 Meaningful, structured mentoring programmes
AT LEAST 2 OF THE 5 AREAS NEED TO BE ADDRESSED TO MEET STANDARD C
By the way, "outstanding", as opposed to "Best" means - there can be more than one that are outstanding, whereas BEST can be one and ONLY one. It's something of a blur - how many (in percent) CAN be outstanding, before the word loses all meaning, but "outstanding" isn't the same as best, and something can actually be outstanding without being best (say, by having an unheard-of theme, without actually being excellent in every regard), while something can be best that's only outstanding because of that fact that everything is "conventional", albeit high quality.
In fact there are no objective criteria, neither for best nor for outstanding, not in art in general or in movies specifically, because it depends on how you rate what. Take figure skating. It consists of a technical part and an artistic part, and no matter how you rate what, the question is how you WEIGH the two with regard to each other.
It would NOT be better, if the judges had these guideline - but wouldn't make them public.
And, by the way, you are NOT an artist first and foremost, because you want to get a certain award.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted December 22, 2016 10:14 PM |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 24, 2016 10:42 PM |
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 24, 2016 10:53 PM |
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted December 25, 2016 10:22 AM |
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fred79 said:
kiryu133 said:
Sexist men have psychological problems
i'd love to see one done on feminists and sjw's. not that i'm sexist. just that i think each sex has their own strengths.
It specifies that men who believe that in the "toxic" masculine behaviour (men shouldn't cry, they should not show emotion, they should be in control in the household etc) has a higher risk of getting/having psychological problems and be unhealthy individuals as seeking help is not something "men" should do. They also put themselves and those close to them at risk with such behaviour.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 25, 2016 12:58 PM |
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Not showing emotion or not crying is not in same range as "being in control of the household" which is more of a patriarchal cultural belief -and also we should take in consideration what every man means by that. Men have physical advantages over women and that creates unique responsibilities as protecting them, and also providing all comfort when they go through pregnancy and consequently kids education. Thus they are supposed to be emotionally stable, reliable and less fragile to psychological harm. Claiming that men are different from women is not sexist by default, it all depends what you put in.
artu said:
This is the first time U.S. doesnt use its right to veto, so the decision passed. Israel says it does not recognize the voting.
Demagogy in all its splendor. Not only Obama humiliates the international community just for a short warm fuzzy feeling about being a good man, but also he ensure to Trump a very solid zionist support, which is the backbone of each US (and many others) president. This was a veto people worldwide were waiting for decades, and all it does is offering a 3 weeks tie, as Trump already said he will invalidate it. What he should have done, is having the guts of taking this resolution 5 years ago, then cut all military aid and force Israel take the path of the two states solution because no longer military superior. As it is now, this just will mock on UN capacity of solving the problem, 3 weeks delay is a joke and no one can come with a proper solution within such delay.
Trump will blow the veto, zionists will have to say thanks, then all major medias, newspaper and other corporations will bow to Trump. This is how politics work. Thanks Obama for enforcing Trump.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 25, 2016 06:12 PM |
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METU is the university both my parents graduated from, in the 1990's my father was even a guest lecturer on the department of architecture. In my twenties, I used to visit its spring festivals for the Rock concerts. It is almost unbelievable to read now, a physics student from METU can join in a "mosque community" there, which eventually produced two volunteers to cross the border and fight for ISIS. The story is a long one but really capturing:
Descent into Jihad by VOA
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 19, 2017 03:39 AM |
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 19, 2017 06:47 AM |
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As I usually reply to the "opinions should be respected" crap - they should only if they are worth it. The only thing which should actually be respected is the right to have an opinion.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 25, 2017 04:37 AM |
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New organisms have been formed using the first ever 6-letter genetic code
While every living thing on Earth is formed according to a DNA code made up of four bases (represented by the letters G, T, C and A), these modified E. coli carry an entirely new type of DNA, with two additional DNA bases, X and Y, nestled in their genetic code.
"With the virtually unrestricted ability to maintain increased information, the optimised semi-synthetic organism now provides a suitable platform [to] ... create organisms with wholly unnatural attributes and traits not found elsewhere in nature,"
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 25, 2017 05:05 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 05:06, 25 Jan 2017.
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted January 25, 2017 04:37 PM |
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Edited by frostysh at 17:02, 25 Jan 2017.
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The mind, the choice > genes. Always was like that
but in the modern times, this stuff more and more recognizable.
The information is old like a bloody hell itself, still artu +1, indeed amazing stuff. As many times before, Scientists making something that Nature recognizing as the result of the million years of the evolution ! But in this case, they touched the fundamentals of the living creatures.
In the anime, about MD Geist, there is a soldier, that has been created, but not born.  This soldier is much more effective than his "natural" brothers and sisters.
Perhaps in the future, that will help to create a meat stuuf, but not to obtain it from the billions of the slaughtered animals, and some humans in the case of Africa  - I am joking.
So I take my cup of dirty boiled water, and cheers to the smarty guys like this, and mostly to their "work" 
 Quote:
The TSRI research team includes (left to right) Tingjian Chen, Denis Malyshev, Yorke Zhang, Kirandeep Dhami and E. Aaron Ward Feldman. (Photo by Cindy Bauer.) -
Scientists Create First Living Organism that Transmits Added Letters in DNA 'Alphabet', 2014
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 27, 2017 08:01 AM |
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This thread is pages long: 
