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| Thread: Richard Dawkins stripped of "Humanist of the Year" Honor after anti-trans tweets |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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JollyJoker
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posted April 22, 2021 08:56 PM |
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Lith-Maethor said:
JollyJoker said:
Hermaphrodites...
That ain't a third sex...
You can't call them either he or she, so it's not binary.
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Lith-Maethor
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posted April 22, 2021 09:12 PM |
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...
Hermaphroditism is an aberration, not a normal occurrence. Therefore, it is not a third sex.
By your logic, someone with Down's Syndrome is also of different sex.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 22, 2021 09:17 PM |
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You gotta be kidding me...
Sorry, that's not only a really dumb comparison, you should also be ashamed to call this people (and by proxy, people with DS) aberrations.
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artu
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posted April 22, 2021 09:22 PM |
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Being an albino is also "an aberration" in the sense you use the word. And unlike Down syndrome, sexual abberations are not a handicap unless we are talking about reproduction. So why should it determine their right to be called the gender of their choice?
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Stevie
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posted April 22, 2021 09:26 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 21:27, 22 Apr 2021.
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Not sure if people forget this simple fact, but even if sex and gender are different things, there is an undeniable connection between them. The vast majority of people on this planet identify with the sex they were born with. The ones that don't are a minority of anomalies that should not dictate any norm, although like Sal said they are pushing laws for compelled speech.
Also, who the **** cares about self-identification? If someone's mental image of themselves dictates that their left limb doesn't belong to their body, should that justify surgical intervention from a doctor to amputate it? But claiming female gender and getting your penis removed is a-okay.
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Lith-Maethor
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posted April 22, 2021 09:30 PM |
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Yeah?
artu said:
Being an albino is also "an aberration" in the sense you use the word.
Indeed (and thank you for not being intentionally obtuse like some other people). As is being quadriplegic, like me. I would be baffled if someone claimed otherwise.
artu said:
And unlike Down syndrome, sexual aberrations are not a handicap unless we are talking about reproduction.
Not a doctor, but I do recall there being some potential problems. Irrelevant to the discussion either way.
artu said:
So why should it determine their right to be called the gender of their choice?
For the same reason that you don't call someone with any other chromosomal aberration a different gender.
Stevie said:
Also, who the **** cares about self-identification? If someone's mental image of themselves dictates that their left limb doesn't belong to their body, should that justify surgical intervention from a doctor to amputate it? But claiming female gender and getting your penis removed is a-okay.
Say hello to Transabled people. No, I am not kidding.
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Gandalf196
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posted April 22, 2021 09:54 PM |
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Stevie said:
Not sure if people forget this simple fact, but even if sex and gender are different things, there is an undeniable connection between them. The vast majority of people on this planet identify with the sex they were born with. The ones that don't are a minority of anomalies that should not dictate any norm, although like Sal said they are pushing laws for compelled speech.
Also, who the **** cares about self-identification? If someone's mental image of themselves dictates that their left limb doesn't belong to their body, should that justify surgical intervention from a doctor to amputate it? But claiming female gender and getting your penis removed is a-okay.
100% correct!
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JollyJoker
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posted April 22, 2021 09:57 PM |
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You can turn this any way you want, but you haven't got a lot of options to address an hermaphrodite.
Either THEY have a preference - then you should follow it - OR they are bi-gendrical (if that's even a word), which definitely makes them neither a he or a she, but obviously both, which poses kind of a problem.
It makes a lot of sense to consider them being a different gender for practical reasons.
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Lith-Maethor
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posted April 22, 2021 10:13 PM |
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Heh...
JollyJoker said:
You can turn this any way you want, but you haven't got a lot of options to address an hermaphrodite.
Sure I do. I address them in whatever way is appropriate for the way they present themselves. If they ask to be addressed otherwise, I'll comply. If they demand it, I'll cordially point them to the nearest ditch.
JollyJoker said:
Either THEY have a preference - then you should follow it - OR they are bi-gendrical (if that's even a word), which definitely makes them neither a he or a she, but obviously both, which poses kind of a problem.
To the best of my knowledge, very few of them remain "undecided" into adulthood. See my previous answer for the rest.
JollyJoker said:
It makes a lot of sense to consider them being a different gender for practical reasons.
Still doesn't. They simply don't have anywhere near the percentage for it.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 22, 2021 10:18 PM |
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Percentage has got nothing to do with it.
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artu
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posted April 22, 2021 10:36 PM |
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Edited by artu at 22:38, 22 Apr 2021.
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Stevie said:
Not sure if people forget this simple fact, but even if sex and gender are different things, there is an undeniable connection between them. The vast majority of people on this planet identify with the sex they were born with. The ones that don't are a minority of anomalies that should not dictate any norm, although like Sal said they are pushing laws for compelled speech.
Also, who the **** cares about self-identification? If someone's mental image of themselves dictates that their left limb doesn't belong to their body, should that justify surgical intervention from a doctor to amputate it? But claiming female gender and getting your penis removed is a-okay.
This is once again, reducing gender into a "mental image" when, it is not an opinion but a fact that the "undeniable connection" between sex and gender is not only about having a penis or a vagina. Your bio-chemistry, is not only determined by your reproductive organs and in some cases, people's reproductive organs and bio-chemistry are not in sync. This is not "a mental image" as if they want to imagine themselves with three fingers. Sorry if this bursts the "proper design" bubble but such people exist, they are born that way.
Who the hell cares? You dont have to care, you also dont have to care that some people are huge and some are tiny and the huge ones can beat up the tiny ones. But would you build a social contract on your choice of not to care. What norms are they dictating, are they dictating that in hospitals there should be purple beds for third gender babies, besides pink and blue? Are they dictating that we should now have special laws that are gender based, in most modern societies, laws are unisex anyway. It's not like you are in Saudi Arabia and transexuals want to be able to have a drivers license like men, unlike women. No, they want to be addressed in the gender they identify with, oh dear, what a facist demand! You are the ones making a big deal out of it. Freedom of speech? I wont go to jail, if I call you a girl on twitter, but if I'm your teacher, boss, etc, someone in a position that has authority over you, and I keep calling you a girl, you can try your chance in court claiming it is harrasment.
Regarding civil liberties, this should be like the 1567834th thing on someone's list. Jane was born a man but I cant call him Jack! Wohaaa! And you actually can, there are stand up shows doing it, nobody gets locked up if it is done in the context of expressing an opinion. Institutional regulations are a different matter.
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Stevie
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posted April 22, 2021 10:37 PM |
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Lith-Maethor said:
Stevie said:
Also, who the **** cares about self-identification? If someone's mental image of themselves dictates that their left limb doesn't belong to their body, should that justify surgical intervention from a doctor to amputate it? But claiming female gender and getting your penis removed is a-okay.
Say hello to Transabled people. No, I am not kidding.
Is that actually true? How does that even work?
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Stevie
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posted April 22, 2021 11:13 PM |
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artu said:
This is once again, reducing gender into a "mental image" when, it is not an opinion but a fact that the "undeniable connection" between sex and gender is not only about having a penis or a vagina. Your bio-chemistry, is not only determined by your reproductive organs and in some cases, people's reproductive organs and bio-chemistry are not in sync. This is not "a mental image" as if they want to imagine themselves with three fingers. Sorry if this bursts the "proper design" bubble but such people exist, they are born that way.
Want a real bubble burst? I did not say it was about having a penis or a vagina, so you just "refuted" a straw man of your own making. I will however say that the bio-chemistry you talk about is absolutely 100% determined by your chromosomes which.. *drumroll* .. will categorically place you in one of the TWO sexes humans have, male or female. Excluding aberrations, naturally. Yes, self-identification is absolutely a mental image constructed with social influence, it is perception of oneself. Which can be sincere and faulty at the same time. It is not by accident that it was considered a mental illness not too long ago, which I still think it predominantly is. I can acknowledge hormonal imbalance as influencing certain behavior pertaining to the other sex, but it's a completely different story from saying that behavior decides sex or gender decides sex. Trans people delude themselves into thinking that's the correct answer and that they can make their body follow. It isn't. They will be forever XX or XY and there's nothing they can do about it.
Oh, my bad. There's actually one thing they can do about it. Lie to themselves and live a life filled with self-loathing, desperation, cries for acceptance and high suicide rates. But no one likes that part, right?
Can't be bothered to reply to the rest, I don't care about your tone either.
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Lith-Maethor
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posted April 22, 2021 11:22 PM |
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artu
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posted April 22, 2021 11:39 PM |
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You did not directly say it was about having a penis or a vagina but the very difference between sex and gender is while one is about having a penis or a vagina, the other isnt. That’s why your claim that gender is a socially constructed mental image is wrong. That’s also why your limb analogy is flat out wrong. People can physiologically feel like a woman, despite having the chromosomes of a man. That is a biological situation: XX or XY is not all there is to it.
The suicides and the self-loathing are, of course, usually about the very mentality that you present here and some of them not being able to handle it. Now, that is the socially constructed part but “who the hell cares.”
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fred79
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posted April 23, 2021 12:32 AM |
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artu said:
The suicides and the self-loathing are, of course, usually about the very mentality that you present here and some of them not being able to handle it. Now, that is the socially constructed part but “who the hell cares.”
delusion. transgenderism is acknowledged as a mental illness. and mental illness comes with it's own dangers; before any external input. that said, anyone ENABLING that mental illness, are literally part of the problem helping to CAUSE suicides. if you want to point fingers at a cause of tranny suicides, look at the mentality of the trannies themselves, and their enablers.
there is literally medication that is proven to stop gender dysphoria. if you people were pushing medical assistance instead of a gender delusion, there would be less suicides. fact.
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artu
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posted April 23, 2021 12:52 AM |
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You really like that word, dont you fred, delusion...
People with gender dysphoria commonly identify as transgender. Gender nonconformity is not the same thing as gender dysphoria and does not always lead to dysphoria or distress. According to the American Psychiatric Association, the critical element of gender dysphoria is "clinically significant distress".
The causes of gender dysphoria are unknown but gender identity likely reflects genetic and biological, environmental, and cultural factors. Treatment for gender dysphoria may involve supporting a person solely through changes in gender expression, or through hormone therapy or surgery. Treatment may also include counseling or psychotherapy.
That doesnt mean being transgender is a mental illness, it means that people who suffer gender dysphoria are usually transgender because biological, envorimental and cultural factors lead to them feeling distress on a clinical level. Soldiers usually suffer from PTS syndrome, you wouldnt conclude that being a soldier is a mental illness from that, would you.
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Gandalf196
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posted April 23, 2021 12:58 AM |
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artu said:
People with gender dysphoria commonly identify as transgender. Gender nonconformity is not the same thing as gender dysphoria and does not always lead to dysphoria or distress. According to the American Psychiatric Association, the critical element of gender dysphoria is "clinically significant distress".
The causes of gender dysphoria are unknown but gender identity likely reflects genetic and biological, environmental, and cultural factors. Treatment for gender dysphoria may involve supporting a person solely through changes in gender expression, or through hormone therapy or surgery. Treatment may also include counseling or psychotherapy.
Seeing medical doctors tiptoeing around scientific concepts not to bust the bubble of confused teenagers who cannot cope with the real world and are suffering from autogynephilia makes me sick. Truly.
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fred79
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posted April 23, 2021 12:58 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 00:59, 23 Apr 2021.
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@ artu: so dressing outside your gender, believing you are a different gender, and mutilating your body because of this isn't distress?
instead of "delusion", how about "disconnection from reality". is that less distressing for you?
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artu
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posted April 23, 2021 01:08 AM |
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Edited by artu at 01:10, 23 Apr 2021.
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Dressing is about being a transvestite, being transgender has nothing to do with how you dress. If you have a penis, but your hormones act as if you have a vagina, that’s not because you want to wear a skirt. Hormones are not something you believe, they dont roleplay.
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