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| Thread: Best Heroes 3 Skill + Skill Discussion |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 21, 2023 07:38 PM |
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Look, I don't care what you guys say. It's a poll.
Earth Magic as a skill does nothing without Earth spells and/or Wisdom. For me that's a synergy effect. The mass effect for the no-Wisdom-needed spells, IF THERE ARE ANY comes from the skill, the spells don't and the higher-than-L2 neither.
Synergy.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 21, 2023 07:50 PM |
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No problem, we don't care much about what you say neither. The synergy is 99% guaranteed to happen, so at that point the two elements become one. Is like saying I will pick a bicycle over a car because a car needs an engine to run. Good luck with tactics.
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Era II mods and utilities
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted January 21, 2023 08:32 PM |
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Judging the skills based on an imaginary situation where you have only one skill and ignore all other parts of the game (that makes some skills better and some skills worse, who would have guessed) is pretty weird. If you come up with a random situation like that you can justify any skill being the best. When it comes to the actual game and real situations, earth magic wins, and there's no contest.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 21, 2023 09:09 PM |
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Edited by Ghost at 21:11, 21 Jan 2023.
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If we are thinking about H4.. You find a Anti-magic is a sexy OP in the Return to Avenger (MWM2).. How? Cyclopses + Hero with Nature vs two Faerie Dragons, for example.. If you know H4.. But I'm waiting other players for Order, thus Mass Slow, etc Remember useless vs hero.. I understand you, JJ.. But HoMM4 deceives us! Where are Anti-Magic? LoL Then searching tenaciously.. So gaining power! A little same you are ready to combat, etc
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 21, 2023 09:49 PM |
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Salamandre said:
No problem, we don't care much about what you say neither. The synergy is 99% guaranteed to happen, so at that point the two elements become one.
It's not.
It's even 100% guaranteed, when you play with Grindan. I accept that playing Conflux with Grindan as a starting hero is killer. He starts with Slow, if I remember right. And Earth Magic. So the synergy is there, 100%- Makes Grindan a contender for best hero to start a game with - not Earth Magic best skill.
Voy starts with Slow as well. Or Geon. Not so great.
Still, Gundula would be pretty okay.
Speaking of Gundula, though ... Terek starts with Haste. You definitely rather want AIR Magic with him - especially since Stronghold guild doesn't do Town Portal (or DD) AND he has a Haste special.
Oh, he starts with Tactics as well.
So it DEPENDS, obviously. On "stuff".
If a hero doesn't start with Slow, you cannot rely on getting it. If it's not in the guild of your starting town, it's critical already. When you play a map where you are "guaranteed" to get it (because there are many towns or shirines or both or there is the Tome or something), it doesn't really matter anyway, except in MP, but then there would a lot be banned anyway most of the time.
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ArdentWyrm
Famous Hero
King of the Elder Dragons
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posted January 21, 2023 10:27 PM |
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Hey guys, earth magic is only good if you have the spells, and only IF you have them, another thing is the difference between basic/advanced is not that important, expert immediately is vital for mass spells.
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Torment is blinding. It lies. Its pollution steals my sense. It promises: destroy everything and the pain will cease.
- Kralkatorrik
https://dragcave.net/user/ArdentWyrm
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted January 22, 2023 12:01 AM |
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ArdentWyrm said:
Hey guys, earth magic is only good if you have the spells, and only IF you have them, another thing is the difference between basic/advanced is not that important, expert immediately is vital for mass spells.
Yes, there can be games where you won't get Slow or such early, and Earth magic somehow won't pay off during the game.
However, you can think it like a boxing match - say, if you're the only guy being able to knock out any opponent 95% of time, it doesn't matter if you're the one tasting the floor in every 20th match - you're still the best of the best and have the title of world champion. Maybe the local press will mock you for the couple of fights "you were supposed to win", and that supposedly funny interviewer may ask if you're "still having nightmares from that one match" but when the dust settles, and you retire, the public will only look at your rating and think how anyone was ever able to get such score. You were the one who was "like Gretzky, but in boxing."
Even if something isn't 100% guaranteed, it doesn't mean it's inconsistent.
One of the most well-known and successful English speaking players - Lexiav - did a spell tier list couple of years ago. The highest tier had 11 spells in total, and 8 of them were from the school of Earth magic.
This is the reason why it's common in MP games to level up any Beastmaster or Overlord. At level 4, they have 50% chance of getting Earth magic. If they don't hit it, it's not rare to see the players ditching that hero, and trying to get earth for another Beastmaster, Overlord or such. This is the same reason why you can find someone calling Knights as bad heroes, as they only get earth 20% at level 4.
At the end of the day, Earth makes such difference and has very decisive element in it that isn't matched by something that is just "constantly pretty good". Yes, not everything is always guaranteed, but the odds are heavily on your favor, it's like playing with weighted dice and sleeves full of aces.
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ArdentWyrm
Famous Hero
King of the Elder Dragons
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posted January 22, 2023 01:21 AM |
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Fine, everyone likes earth magic, but as I said get expert ASAP, and now Hourglass convinced me earth magic is good.
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Torment is blinding. It lies. Its pollution steals my sense. It promises: destroy everything and the pain will cease.
- Kralkatorrik
https://dragcave.net/user/ArdentWyrm
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 22, 2023 07:12 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
Look, I don't care what you guys say. It's a poll.
Earth Magic as a skill does nothing without Earth spells and/or Wisdom. For me that's a synergy effect. The mass effect for the no-Wisdom-needed spells, IF THERE ARE ANY comes from the skill, the spells don't and the higher-than-L2 neither.
Synergy.
Tactics does nothing, if you don't have units.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted January 22, 2023 07:16 AM |
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And how is Tactics better than Offense or Armorer??
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 22, 2023 08:02 AM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
And how is Tactics better than Offense or Armorer??
It's not, especially if you already have fast units.
Tactics is mostly for early-mid game or to prevent enemy heroes from using Tactics against you.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted January 22, 2023 08:38 AM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
Drakon-Deus said:
And how is Tactics better than Offense or Armorer??
It's not, especially if you already have fast units.
Tactics is mostly for early-mid game or to prevent enemy heroes from using Tactics against you.
I agree. I was asking JJ.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 22, 2023 09:32 AM |
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Maybe it's not better, but maybe the question for best skill doesn't make sense, as I suggested, because it's moot - you can have up to eight of them, and on top of it the system is rigged for the magic skills to be offered regularly.
Now look at this:
Phoenix4ever said:
Tactics is mostly for early-mid game or and to prevent enemy heroes from using Tactics against you.
Why prevent enemy heroes from using Tactics against you, if it's not a decisive advantage to do so?
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 22, 2023 09:42 AM |
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heymlich said:
Tactics does nothing, if you don't have units.
No.. Opponent builds incomprehensible pattern.. He/she defends archers, and then strong creatures are "the first line", But in chess called complete fortification, when Tactics leads ready pattern.. and another opponent hasn't anything.. An easy to delete their creatures.. Ok HoMM is a very different chess*, but pondering a move is the same.. What's the different? Only one pawn, rook, bishop, knight, queen and then spell caster king.. Rook's speed can be 4-5, pawn's speed is always 1.. Bishop and knight are 3 speed.. Queen 7-8 speed.. King can't move or can be move in H4.. Funny! So you can try to play this rule.. Then you protect slow pieces.. and slow pieces protect your strong piece(s).. I've played! But I've also played different chess.. It gave development well.. Chess players use training method! An example my two chess guys are over 2250 Rating**.. They practiced different chess.. Thus Tactics looks movement, hit, etc
*we can't know his design about chess..
** If I'm playing still chess, so I'm also 2250 or more.. Depend on intellect, development, opponent, etc
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted January 22, 2023 10:01 AM |
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@jj
In your previous post you said:
JollyJoker said:
Best skill is Tactics.
I disagree.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 22, 2023 03:38 PM |
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ArdentWyrm
Famous Hero
King of the Elder Dragons
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posted January 22, 2023 11:10 PM |
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Personally, I wish there were more poll spots, because 10 is not enough, I need not put learning, eagle eye, or scholar, but tactics, navigation, necromancy, and resistance deserve a spot.
But my opinion has now changed from "leadership is best" to "earth magic and air magic are better" but what votes are done are done.
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Torment is blinding. It lies. Its pollution steals my sense. It promises: destroy everything and the pain will cease.
- Kralkatorrik
https://dragcave.net/user/ArdentWyrm
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 23, 2023 12:17 PM |
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Edited by heymlich at 12:21, 23 Jan 2023.
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No one seems to care about archery. Depending on which faction you are playing, it can make quite a difference in the early game. Mass slow is good, but it doesn't help much if your hero has stats like 5-5-1-1.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted January 23, 2023 12:20 PM |
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heymlich said:
No one seems to care about archery.
I care. It can be great. But not the absolute best.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 23, 2023 01:12 PM |
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Titans? Pity!
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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