|
| Thread: Help! Where can I download/upload H4 maps? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
dragonsister
Hero of Order
MapHaven administrator
|
posted May 20, 2002 05:57 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Thanks a lot guys
Heroes.org did have the most. Unfortunately there's no rating on them and nothing to say whether they are pre-patch or post-patch (or does that even matter?). Still, a good start nonetheless and I downloaded 5 XL maps to keep me busy.
Drop the admin a line asking if they can add the capacity to rate maps - it *is* useful.
Quote:
As for the question regarding my map I mentioned, I know what you mean about bad maps. I downloaded a couple hundred for HOMM3AB, and 95% of them were absolute garbage and no better than the lame one's that came with the game (frequently much worse). There were a couple great gems in amongst though I must say.
Where did you download them from?
Hmm, I don't suppose it matters now. I certainly agree that quality matters a lot more than quantity - and I have put in many hours assessing the quality of maps! The way AstralWizard set about cutting the flow of really bad maps was to insist that maps be playtested before they were uploaded; which seems to have worked pretty well.
Some people have a voracious appetite for maps - and are quire happy to play maps which aren't quite as good as the professional ones. That's part of the reason mapsites will still accept such maps ... they are the easiest maps to make, too, and everyone has to start somewhere. Map ratings and Reviews allow players to choose where they'll draw the line.
The Gems - well, they take a long time to make. And it helps to have insight, ideas, an awareness of the traps out there. I've been collecting information on mapmaking at MapHaven (http://heroes.mycomport.com/ - and thanks, Unka-Haarkon!) to try and make this easier for everyone.
Quote:
Anyway, I made about 300 maps for HOMM1, 150 for HOMM2, and about 20 for HOMM3. All my maps (for H4) will be XL, split level, 6 players, heavily detailed, and often the terrain is borrowed from fantasy maps from books or rpg's. I usually put about 80-150 hours into each one. I never got into the online thing before so I never submitted any maps, but I wouldn't submit anything that wasn't complete and thoroughly tested. Any maps by me will have an AU_ in front of them and will take a few days to play out.
80-150 hours - that's in the same ball-park as a number of very good H3 maps I know of; though I also know of maps that took rather longer still. Especially the XL ones.
You shouldn't need to put your name in the map name. Any site worth submitting your map to will keep Author name against map name; and the usual method for distributing maps (at least around AstralWizard/MapHaven) involves (nay, requires) zipping them with a readme file with information about the map - not least your own name and email address!
AstralWizard and MapHaven require you to have got someone else to play your map to completion - playtesters usually aren't too hard to find! :-)
Quote:
The map I have nearly completed now is based on the Mystara world from D&D with quite a few liberties taken (lost my copy of the map so I hadda reconstruct it from years old memory). I have already spent a good 50 hours on it but the events have been savagely flawed due to much fumbling (I wish I knew about that tutorial site b4 I started). Stupid. Shoulda practiced on a small map first...
Tutorial site might not have been up when you started. If you've learned anything that you haven't seen anyone else describe, do share it with us!
Practising on a small map is a good idea ... I often make little 'test maps' to try out something or other. Test maps, test heroes, test this, test that ...
At 50 hours you may not want to start over, but it might be worth cleaning up all old events and setting them up again from scratch. I'm assuming you've got a lot of terrain placed, etc etc.
With maps using background from other stories/games/books etc, do remember that not everyone has read the book/played the game (certainly *I* know nothing about Mystara) so you might need to describe things in more detail.
When you've had your map playtested, please do submit it to MapHaven - I do see a demand for good XL maps, and they do take a lot of time to make.
DragonSister
____________
MapHaven
|
|
Xenophanes
Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
|
|
posted May 21, 2002 04:38 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Why download maps so quickly when the game came with so many maps?  Those maps may not have good stories but they are fun to play on nevertheless...
Au contraire, my dear denizen from Erathia...
There are an extremely small amount of maps included in Heroes IV. Hardly any of them are of an appropriate size, either. This is why we download maps...and, people like me care about storyline a lot, so that's my reason...
____________
<Dragons rule, Titans drool!>
|
|
bestanden
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted May 26, 2002 04:19 AM |
|
|
ancient ruins
Beware the map "Ancient Ruins" on the heroes4.org site. Some idiot posted it without playtesting. Wasted several hours, impassable terrain, missing tent among other things. Really frustrating.
Wanted to add that "The Chosen Ones War" on the same site is a pretty good map. Actually had the a.i. breathing down my neck a couple of times.
____________
My daddy drives a UFO
|
|
Nernug
Adventuring Hero
|
posted May 26, 2002 10:05 AM |
|
|
I also found a nice map at www.heroes4.org. It's called "Beltway II". It's a closed map with lots of treasures but with powerful creatures guarding them. The thief is also pretty useless because there is no way to sneak by the creatures.
I only found one flaw with it; there is an impassable area in the middle east.
|
|
Xenophanes
Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
|
|
posted May 26, 2002 04:02 PM |
|
|
Beltaway looks ok. I'm not sure how soon I'll be able to try it, though; I have a lot of other maps on a waiting list
____________
<Dragons rule, Titans drool!>
|
|
armageddonun...
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted May 26, 2002 04:34 PM |
|
|
thanks for your thoughts dragonsister I checked out maphaven and with only one H4 map (am I doing the search right?!?) I can see that it could use some more. I like the lay-out and believe I've downloaded a couple good H3 maps from there - ya, rating systems are VERY good!
BTW, for those playing the Dragons in the Middle map from heroes.org, most of the angels guarding the only ships have blocking terrain preventing water strats. You can edit them yourself. Also be warned that it is a SUPER thief map that minimal editing can fix.
Speaking of that, I wonder if it would be bad form to submit someone else's edited map giving them complete credit but offering it as an alternative? I have modified several promising but flawed maps now to have them take thieves into account as well as removing blocking terrain mistakes. One for example, arret v1.05 (or some name like that), had a reasonable terrain layout (very workable anyway), but was painfully bland and severely lacking in monsters/items/novelty/and story. I thought about 20 hours work could turn it into an exceptional map instead, but could be pretty disheartening to the designer who obviously spent considerable time on it. Any thoughts?
____________
|
|
bestanden
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted May 26, 2002 06:30 PM |
|
|
template borrowing
I would definitely ask the mapmaker before you post it and you could say that you used his map as a "template" for yours, which with 20+ hours of work on your part is a very fair statement. Some of those damn maps were made in less than 4 hours. They do a good job on the area around the starting castle and this fools you into believing that the thing is finished. I wish someone with some mapmaking experience would take a look at the Ancient Ruins map I mentioned previously. The concept is quite interesting, but I had to edit and restart several times just to keep moving on the map. Unmatched liths, missing tents, passability problems, that sort of thing.
____________
My daddy drives a UFO
|
|
Dismay
Known Hero
Dark Knight
|
|
posted May 26, 2002 08:04 PM |
|
|
|
http://www.h4o.cjb.net my new map full of events in ... BATTLE FOR THE LOST CITY
|
|
BladeX
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted May 26, 2002 11:28 PM |
|
|
Quote:
http://www.h4o.cjb.net my new map full of events in ... BATTLE FOR THE LOST CITY
shameful plug for your map! LOL
____________
Scripting made easy...http://h4o.cjb.net
|
|
dragonsister
Hero of Order
MapHaven administrator
|
|
posted May 27, 2002 05:30 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Speaking of that, I wonder if it would be bad form to submit someone else's edited map giving them complete credit but offering it as an alternative? I have modified several promising but flawed maps now to have them take thieves into account as well as removing blocking terrain mistakes. One for example, arret v1.05 (or some name like that), had a reasonable terrain layout (very workable anyway), but was painfully bland and severely lacking in monsters/items/novelty/and story. I thought about 20 hours work could turn it into an exceptional map instead, but could be pretty disheartening to the designer who obviously spent considerable time on it. Any thoughts?
20 hours work is a lot of time to spend on someone else's map. Some people don't spend that much time on their own maps - how could you tell that the designer of this map had spent a lot of time on it? What were the signs?
MapHaven shares their policy with AstralWizard on this as other things. Even if you have spent 20 hours improving someone else's map, we won't touch it without the original author's permission. (There's just too big a can of worms here. I'd hit the roof if anyone edited 'Going Gold' (H3) on me; that map is chockablock with puzzles and carefully configured and tested border gates, guards, etc etc ... anyone thinking that they were fixing a bug would probably be destroying a puzzle or opening a hole. Extreme example, but generally bad maps either 1) need a small bugfix, which should be reported to and done by the original mapmaker, or 2) need many hours work.)
Frankly, if you're prepared to spend 20 hours making a map excellent, you should probably be spending that time on your *own* map! And if you're not one for setting out terrain etc, then you should team up with someone who is ... being co-author is entirely OK anywhere I've ever looked; and of course you could approach the author of 'Arret' and offer to co-make a map with them! :-)
As for disheartening ... some of that's tact; commenting on what was done right, as well as what could be done better; and some of it's necessary - how will a mapmaker ever learn to do better if they aren't told where their weaknesses are? If someone *isn't* prepared to learn and do better next time ... well, it's rare to produce a brilliant map on the first try (hey, it's rare to produce a brilliant map!) but I *wouldn't* want to encourage anyone to pour out ten maps with the same flaws!
DragonSister
____________
MapHaven
|
|
bestanden
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted May 27, 2002 06:31 AM |
|
|
lost city
Hi Dismay, just tried to play your map started it on champion then realized that would take forever. Give each player a gold mine or two, can be a challenge to get to, but there should be access to more gold. Also playtest for each difficulty level and let people know in the map comments if the map doesn't work on a particular difficulty.
So then I tried intermediate. The red player is blocked on the west side (east side exit is ok but then the road going west is blocked from there) from getting out of his area and the level one dwelling due west of the starting castle is also blocked depending on what creature the dwelling is for (leave space all around each dwelling, some enter at odd angles). The "way out" blockage also blocks a quest structure. You should run a passability grid or whatever its called on the whole map. I have noticed that mapmakers haven't really gotten the hang of making sure that roads aren't blocked. While playtesting, you should also run an army through every place in the map that players need to go. I wouldn't trust the passability grid totally as it is hard to read sometimes. Just edit in a GM pathfinding hero with two sets of gloves, speed boots and 10,000 black dragons and it will take no time. All the combats will be auto.
I was somewhat "dismayed" that one of the computer players is attacking me with 68 black dragons at the beginning of month three. How could a player possibly combat that? Even assuming GM Lord and a first week level four build, the player can only generate 12-15 dragons in this time frame. If this was a timed event, and the hero was fixed, it might make sense, but I first saw the guy (the green player) in the middle of month 2 with scores of blacks and he was running around eliminating the other comp players. Needs some work here. Also, there is a thief neutral with a huge army that is way too strong in the first-second month and he appears to be able to run around wherever he wants. I understand giving the comp player an advantage, but try to balance it within the map.
Also, I noticed few "events" in the map other than the persistent -2500 gold events in the thieves area. Most players don't like random resource stealing events unless there is a chance to avoid them or they fit well within a storyline. I remember disliking lots of homm3 maps where the player would randomly have resources stolen and given back. It creates a feeling of annoyance more than challenge.
I quit the map after the dragon guy showed up in the beginning of month 3. At that point I had the red main town, the NE player's town and green's main town.
For great single player (homm3) maps, download "The Lone Knight" and "Running with the Devil" from astralwizard.com.
Play them or open them in the editor to check out how the events work.
Hope this helps; keep on making maps!
____________
My daddy drives a UFO
|
|
HappyPike
Known Hero
Pikeman
|
posted August 11, 2002 12:29 AM |
|
|
Dragonsister, I hope your site can handle all the additional traffic, now with heroes.org gone. 
____________
Also a Civilization fanatic:
http://www.civfanatics.com || forums
|
|
dragonsister
Hero of Order
MapHaven administrator
|
|
posted August 12, 2002 07:37 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Dragonsister, I hope your site can handle all the additional traffic, now with heroes.org gone.
MapHaven's hosting is such that Mycomport gets charged the same however much or little traffic goes out from the server (which hosts several Mycomport sites besides MapHaven) ... there's a limit on inbound traffic, but we're not at risk of hitting that any time soon.
I'd be more worried about the overseas link - well, our server's located in Australia; if site response times are slow, I'm sorry, but there's not a lot I can do about that one! I can and do look to keep demand on the server to a minimum for each page served.
:-) At the moment my problems are 1) I need playtesters to help mapmakers out, and 2) I need coding time to implement the new features I want.
DragonSister
____________
MapHaven
|
|
haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted August 12, 2002 09:30 AM |
|
|
Multiplayer Maps
Hmmmm... actually I'm interested in good Multiplayer Maps - can anybody recommend some?
characteristica of a MP map (for me):
*NO* storyline
*balanced* (not necessarily mirrored)
medium or large size
no extremely slow starting phase (some free / weakly guarded stuff in front of starting castle)
*NO* storyline
Thanks for any input
____________
Running may not add years to your life, but it will add life to your years
|
|
trimurti
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted August 13, 2002 08:45 AM |
|
|
www.hommportal.com
____________
|
|
Medusa
Famous Hero
Yeah, right
|
posted September 02, 2002 04:04 PM |
|
|
|
YoungOldGuy
Hired Hero
|
|
posted September 02, 2002 04:27 PM |
|
|
Would someone like to send me Dragons in the Middle? That sounds like a great map and I can't find it on any of the websites.
My E-mail is smartiepants87@hotmail.com
And BTW, Medusa my CPU couldn't find that page.....
____________
Blah.
|
|
YoungOldGuy
Hired Hero
|
|
posted September 03, 2002 04:17 AM |
|
|
Please?
____________
Blah.
|
|
Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
|
posted September 03, 2002 04:41 AM |
|
|
so lemme get this straight Haile..you don't want a storyline?
____________
The darkest skies show the brightest stars
|
|
trimurti
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted September 03, 2002 07:32 AM |
|
|
u can try heroes.ag.ru - best heroes site in Russia.
____________
|
|
|
|
