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| Thread: Faction Discussion — Sylvan! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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MurlocAggroB
Known Hero
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posted April 05, 2025 05:58 AM |
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Stevie said:
You're not demonstrating how it deserves to be called that, just how much we need to compromise in order to do it.
It "deserves" it because it's the Nature Faction, and the Nature Faction is called Sylvan. This has been established. This isn't deep. It could've been called Rampart, it could've been called Preserve, or it could've been called a new thing, but they went with Sylvan and there's nothing wrong with that.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 05, 2025 07:40 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 08:07, 05 Apr 2025.
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The 'Nature' faction has changed names more often than any other faction, from Forest (H1, yes, that its actual name) of Sorceress (H2) to Rampart (H3) to Preserve (H4) to Sylvan (H5, 7). Here, we have a bigger lineup change than any other time in the faction's history, yet it retains the name. The decision to keep the name lacks consistency.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 05, 2025 09:29 AM |
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Edited by Ghost at 09:35, 05 Apr 2025.
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Rimgrabber said:
Octavia is a little weird, but it's not weirder than, say, Verdish randomly becoming a Knight in H4 after being a Witch in H3. I think Octavia fits pretty well with this version of Sylvan, although I think 2 fire themed heroes is more than enough and I hope there aren't more.
Don't forget Ignatius.. But fire in a vague memory, because I heard about fire, where? I don't remember.. Yes it related to Efreet.. From movie or what 
EDIT
I checked on my mythological creatures dictionary, but I haven't found anything..
djinn (see) jinnee/jinni
genie (see) jinnee/jinni (o/n/Arabian folklore) a magic spirit that looks like a person, often lives in a lamp or bottle, and serves the person who calls it
jinnee/jinni (o/Islamic mythology & theology) a magical spirit or demon who may appear in the form of a human or an animal and can take control of a person
Ok 
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 05, 2025 09:32 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 09:38, 05 Apr 2025.
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ANcientDRuids said:
@Galaad I think we've established that this is not Sylvan, nor Sorceress Town, nor Rampart, nor Preserve* - it's Conflux (and also a bunch of other things shoehorned in) wearing Sylvan skin name. And in this chaotic mix, a Fire Elemental hero is one thing. Efreet is another. But what's next? Gogs (just another prancing, zany-to-the-max critter that meshes just well with autumn ambiance), maybe Cerberi (so cute! fiery puppos! we've already got a cat, why not throw a bone to the dog lovers) or heck, even literal Demons (who even cares anymore? let's subvert them to be primordial forces of nature - kin to the goat-footed Fauns)? What's the point of advertising that they consult M&M lore experts if we end up with jarring stuff like that.
(*Preserve so far would be the closest to the philosophy of HOE's version of the town - Elves, Faeries, wild animals, magical hybrids, plants, Elementals - the full package of everything that ever appeared. Bugs too.)
I don’t think it’s accurate to say we’ve "established" that this town is Conflux wearing Sylvan skin. In fact, I made the opposite case earlier:
Galaad said:
Otherwise, the lineup doesn’t actually remind me of Conflux. Faun, Hoplet, Yriad, Druid, Qilin, and Phoenix all contribute to a magical forest, fairy-tale feel rather than an elemental menagerie to me.
If you take the lineup without naming the town and ask a random Heroes fan to guess which faction it is, I’d bet the majority would answer Sylvan (or Preserve, or Rampart, depending on their era of reference). Between the Unicorn (here Qilin), the Dryad (Hoplet), the Treant (Iryad), the Elf (Faun), the Phoenix (H2/H4) and the overall forest theme, that’s clearly the dominant identity. There are added influences, yes —as there always have been.
To me, this feels like a fresh take on that tradition, even if I agree that giving it a new name might have helped set expectations more clearly. A lot of the current frustration seems to stem from calling it Sylvan, a name that, in Heroes V, was tightly bound to a more elf-centric identity. Earlier games (like Rampart or Preserve) had broader or different interpretations of the nature faction —including phoenixes and faerie dragons, and even, I think, elemental ties? That context is important.
So while it’s totally fair to debate the tone or direction of this version, I do think some reactions are making it a bigger deal than it really is. The faction draws heavily from the established nature-themed towns of the series. Calling it not Sylvan feels more like a question of semantics or branding than of lineup coherence.
As for the Efreet hero, I already made my point earlier: the inclusion of fire-themed elements like Efreet is hardly out of place within a nature faction, especially when considering past iterations of nature-focused towns, like Rampart or Preserve, where unexpected creatures were introduced. The idea that adding an Efreet undermines the nature theme doesn’t hold up when we look at the broader history of the series. Nature, in the Heroes universe, has always been diverse, encompassing both the serene and the volatile aspects of the world. Efreet, with its ties to elemental fire, fits within that tradition just as the Phoenix or Dragons did in previous games.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 05, 2025 11:16 AM |
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Galaad said:
If you take the lineup without naming the town and ask a random Heroes fan to guess which faction it is, I’d bet the majority would answer Sylvan (or Preserve, or Rampart, depending on their era of reference). Between the Unicorn (here Qilin), the Dryad (Hoplet), the Treant (Iryad), the Elf (Faun), the Phoenix (H2/H4) and the overall forest theme, that’s clearly the dominant identity. There are added influences, yes —as there always have been.
I think it's a bit premature to draw equivalences between units at this stage. Yes, the Qilin has for hooves like the Unicorn, but if its abilities don't line up (the Moon Doe and Sun Deer of H7 Sylvan didn't have a blinding attack f.e.), it's a creature with only a passing resemblance, not an equivalent one.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 05, 2025 11:34 AM |
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I was referring to the thematic roles, not the gameplay mechanics, which we indeed don't know yet.
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
channeling capybara energy
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posted April 05, 2025 10:07 PM |
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As long as the units form a cohesive whole, town screen's nice and town theme slaps, I'm gonna be happy with it even if they call it something truly atrocious. And if not, we'll have bigger problems than the name anyway. 
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Friend-shaped
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TrueMefista
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 06, 2025 12:31 AM |
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[hot take]
Last time forest faction theme slapped was in H2
[/hot take]
Also, to return to axolotl replacement theme - I waterfied centaur cause Ubisoft had water centaur in Elemental Guardians, so there is a precedent; kelpie would invade kirin's niche AND it looks more grass-elemented by itself. I know it is forced.
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Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
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posted April 06, 2025 01:35 AM |
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I don't know how anyone could say with a straight face Heroes 5 Sylvan didn't have one of the best town soundtracks in the series
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Etharil
Shaper of Lore
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posted April 06, 2025 01:49 AM |
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Stevie said:
I guess we're now not forwarding posts here when the reveals are too controversial. Just a bias I noticed.
Surprise demoniac hero in "Sylvan", Octavia. Reddit link.
I wasn't home for 2 days. Nonetheless thank you for helping me out and posting it, much appreciated.
As for Octavia's presence in Sylvan, this isn't as impossible as it might seem: in Might & Magic VI we come across Tomb of VARN that is guarded by both Genies and Efreet alongside the droids used to protect Ancients' technology. This, from our perspective, has been a sufficient enough indication that there was more to the two races than what we've seen in the HoMM series.
Using that, we've chosen the most opportunistic Efreeti in the form of Octavia, who has already proven that her allegiance to the Kreegans was purely opportunistic in nature as is evident of her being a part of Asylum in Heroes IV rather than Necropolis (or Infernopolis, as some would say), further reinforced by Xyron's bio where it claims the Efreet-Kreegan alliance was temporary. I understand the concern but I also would like to point towards a hint at somebody else in her biography. It should make a bit more sense in the future.
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ANcientDRuids
Famous Hero
(Andruids for short)
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posted April 06, 2025 03:28 AM |
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Etharil said:
As for Octavia's presence in Sylvan, this isn't as impossible as it might seem: in Might & Magic VI we come across Tomb of VARN that is guarded by both Genies and Efreet alongside the droids used to protect Ancients' technology.
When HOE contradicts H3 (whose biggest community it claims to cater to), the explanation is "acktchually in a particular instance of MM[ ]...". And when something contradicts MM lore, it's "we're doing our own thing".
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LordInsane 
Known Hero
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posted April 06, 2025 04:19 AM |
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Honestly, I have no problems at all with an efreet hero in a multi-elemental-connected town (the only reasons I went different in my own take on an imagined Jadamean HOMM was to lean into the conflicts between the elements and have an "Inferno" without demons), and no problems with a druidic faction being multi-elemental-connected. It's certainly less odd than taking inspiration from a traditionally folkloric doubly fire-associated creature (to the point of a take on their kind showing up in the Plane of Fire in MM8) to do a water-element aspected creature, or the absence of unicorns when Murmurwoods is where the Unicorn King was and will be.
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Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
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posted April 06, 2025 05:40 AM |
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What contradiction?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 06, 2025 10:54 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 10:54, 06 Apr 2025.
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I was wondering about that too as I didn't notice something strange.
Galaad said:
I don’t think it’s accurate to say we’ve "established" that this town is Conflux wearing Sylvan skin. In fact, I made the opposite case earlier:
Galaad said:
If you take the lineup without naming the town and ask a random Heroes fan to guess which faction it is, I’d bet the majority would answer Sylvan (or Preserve, or Rampart, depending on their era of reference). Between the Unicorn (here Qilin), the Dryad (Hoplet), the Treant (Iryad), the Elf (Faun), the Phoenix (H2/H4) and the overall forest theme, that’s clearly the dominant identity. There are added influences, yes —as there always have been.
To me, this feels like a fresh take on that tradition, even if I agree that giving it a new name might have helped set expectations more clearly. A lot of the current frustration seems to stem from calling it Sylvan, a name that, in Heroes V, was tightly bound to a more elf-centric identity. Earlier games (like Rampart or Preserve) had broader or different interpretations of the nature faction —including phoenixes and faerie dragons, and even, I think, elemental ties? That context is important.
So while it’s totally fair to debate the tone or direction of this version, I do think some reactions are making it a bigger deal than it really is. The faction draws heavily from the established nature-themed towns of the series. Calling it not Sylvan feels more like a question of semantics or branding than of lineup coherence.
As for the Efreet hero, I already made my point earlier: the inclusion of fire-themed elements like Efreet is hardly out of place within a nature faction, especially when considering past iterations of nature-focused towns, like Rampart or Preserve, where unexpected creatures were introduced. The idea that adding an Efreet undermines the nature theme doesn’t hold up when we look at the broader history of the series. Nature, in the Heroes universe, has always been diverse, encompassing both the serene and the volatile aspects of the world. Efreet, with its ties to elemental fire, fits within that tradition just as the Phoenix or Dragons did in previous games.
I mean.. In H4 preserve we could directly hire elementals.
Etharil said:
Using that, we've chosen the most opportunistic Efreeti in the form of Octavia, who has already proven that her allegiance to the Kreegans was purely opportunistic in nature as is evident of her being a part of Asylum in Heroes IV rather than Necropolis (or Infernopolis, as some would say), further reinforced by Xyron's bio where it claims the Efreet-Kreegan alliance was temporary.
Okay, that went deeper than expected. I am not particularly concerned about might and magic tombs and efreet but this is directly tied to homm.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 06, 2025 11:01 AM |
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As for Octavia in sylvan, a bit weird but I could see that happening if she's a free spirit that happened to be summoned there and decided to stick around and see the sights. It's more that she's an efreet rather than a fire elemental but then again, if they are from the plane of fire it could happen.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 06, 2025 11:53 AM |
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I'm not too bothered about Octavia TBH. Remember, we've had four games now with a Genie (or at least, half Genie) hero, Yog in the Barbarian town.
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted April 06, 2025 02:20 PM |
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I think Yog should join Sylvan this time around
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Etharil
Shaper of Lore
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posted April 06, 2025 02:48 PM |
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The_Green_Drag said:
I think Yog should join Sylvan this time around
As far as I recall, he wasn't born yet. He is a fairly young character if his campaign is anything to go by.
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Charrclaw
Known Hero
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posted April 06, 2025 03:58 PM |
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Rimgrabber said:
I don't know how anyone could say with a straight face Heroes 5 Sylvan didn't have one of the best town soundtracks in the series
FACTS
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 06, 2025 04:10 PM |
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Rimgrabber said:
I don't know how anyone could say with a straight face Heroes 5 Sylvan didn't have one of the best town soundtracks in the series
Heroes II Sorceress for me... If I had to pick one for that town in particular. But all of them are good. 
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