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| Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Inferno Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 ... 26 27 28 29 30 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 21, 2010 03:10 PM |
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Don't remember step by step but it was tiers 1-4,6,7, castle, capitol, mage guild and blacksmith or what else. Deleb's advantage is not just in earlygame, even in large maps she can be deadly because she is a lot faster on the map. Your build desperately misses dark, never go out without dark.
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Targash
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 21, 2010 04:40 PM |
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Quote:
Don't remember step by step but it was tiers 1-4,6,7, castle, capitol, mage guild and blacksmith or what else. Deleb's advantage is not just in earlygame, even in large maps she can be deadly because she is a lot faster on the map. Your build desperately misses dark, never go out without dark.
Thanks again for the advices.
What about units? Do you use level 3 (cerberus/firehound)? In my games they donīt prove to be cost-effective. Probably i am not using them effectivelly. What units you upgrade in early game?
You said that you use vermim, but i think that vermim is not so effective as familiar. Theirs base stats are the same and the ability of vermim is not so good or am I missing something?
I donīt like nightmares aswell for the same reasons of cerberus.
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted July 21, 2010 05:44 PM |
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Vermin have 1 speed more than Familiars - I think you know how much of a difference it makes in creeping 
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none of my business.
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anacron
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 09, 2011 12:17 PM |
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hey,i was just wonder if someone could tell me in short a good strategy for infernals against humans,what hero to take,what skills etc....
I just start to play this game,and dont know much,my only tactics is to use spells with big damage and attack,so could someone tell me few tricks for infernals?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 09, 2011 12:47 PM |
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This thread already contains tons of information 
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Sabatu
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 12, 2014 12:06 PM |
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Elvin said:
This thread already contains tons of information
yes
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted July 21, 2016 09:16 PM |
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Edited by frostysh at 21:36, 21 Jul 2016.
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So I have read for a little bit this thread after I ahve the opportunity to play with ma' friend tonight.
Tribes of the East 3,1 (The only one PC game that I can kill the time and ma' brain with through the Internet... because of my idiotic poor ~2KiB/Sec connection stuff  )
The map - 2x2 Islands, difficulty level - "Heroic", all other options - by default.
AI players. - full random.
The first game tonight
I am: Dungeon, random, random.
Ma' friend: Stronghold, random, random.
The game goes a pretty well for me, and I realized how to defeat a monsters with Dungeon! = = = > Upgrade for Maidens, Minotaur + skill Defense for Warlock Warrior-like !
Suddenly ma' friend does not realized how to play for Stronghold, so he suffer a hardcore loses on monsters (it is ma' skool ) and after he has been defeated by some Sylvan folks in the attempt to capture the mine, we decided to restart .
The second game
I am: Inferno, random, random
Ma' friend: Sylvan, random, random
Some time before I thought that Dungeon in ToTE is sux. without Railag hero... But now I realized that Inferno sux!
My friend with ~10 archers killed almost anything in his map, and I am suffer a hardcore loses until I reached the Minotaur .
They defeat ma' hero (Grok), but anyway I have rehire him from a cafe. Anyway I managed to build +4000 /day building and things starts to going very well.
Suddenly the enemy Inferno hero came to kick off my assists, and tried to hide in the village, but her ballista wiped out my soliders regardless of any fortification (omf... ~30 Imps per shot + 2x shots + Fireball like damage O_O... ).
So I realized that Inforno in 3,1 is sux. I tried to fight against monsters, I tried even to multiple the stucks and using "Hell Gates" abilities, but suddenly against archers with high initiative this is almost useless... Even the monsters with low initiative like a Zombie! Is a pretty tough to defeat with only.
 + 
I using next tactics against monsters (hero = = => Grok):
[AMMO RACK]
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[MEDICAL TENT]
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[BALLISTA]
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[HORNED DEMON]
[HORNED DEMON][HORNED DEMON]
[IMP____________][HORNED DEMON]
I tied to use "Hell gates" before the enemy comes but anyway, smarty AI focus only my hero own army ;/ . Ballista cannot penetrate the tough Zombies, or a Minotaur i.e. ;/ .
So the Results was horrific .
Is there Anybody knows I make an update of my tactics to not lose such horrific defeat again ? 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 22, 2016 12:46 AM |
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Yes, L2P Alternatively get warmachines and enjoy. Inferno doesn't have many creeping strategies and machines is the most efficient.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 22, 2016 12:25 PM |
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I think, that your Inferno strategy actually depends a lot on your starting hero(es), playing RANDOM (heroes)!
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted July 22, 2016 06:08 PM |
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Elvin
L2P - O.o ? This is like a Tor-network, or what the hell is that means.
And why so unfair, the Sylvan faction on "Heroic" can easily wipe anything with his archers on the beginning of the game, and the Inferno stuff, cannot defeat monsters without a heavy loses .
i.e. 1st day, the Ore Mine protected by Hordes (~50-100) of upgraded Gremlins or a upgraded Imps, Sylvan stuff can easily defeat this monsters, and the Inferno will defeat upgraded Imps, with a heavy loses and upgraded gremlins can actually wipe out the full first day army of Inferno...
And if you will not obtain the Mine of Ore in the first weak, you are in bad trouble.... ;/
War machines: Ballista x1500 + medical Tent x1500 + Ammo Rack x1500 = 4500 .
And the machines is hard to upgrade, and machines on the 1st level experience cannot beat any tough or high initiative monsters, they will doing their damage to the Inferno army regardless of 0-4 loses / per ballista turn .
A very good example - Minotaur or a Dryads (with 2x Swarm attack per battle).
This is mean, that you will build 4,000/day building much more slower than Sylvan i.e.. In Additional to obtain a rangers in your army you need to build the house for Succubi summoning = = = > Hell lot of resources is need for it .
On Heroic, Inferno is very hard for a fast evolve...
JollyJoker
I am actually playing on Random/Random, because only the one hero that I experienced with in the Inferno is RaeLag, and he untakeble in the multiplayer games. My friend playing on a random, because I am playing on a random .
My internet friend usually has a hard nerve system disturbance when he is losing , and I am not.
So the game beginning strategy with Inferno on "Heroic" is totally based on the hero that you obtained?
Is there any examples of such strategies?
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted July 23, 2016 09:33 AM |
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Hello Frostysh!
Original Tote Inferno is probably the weakest faction in the game. Due to the first and second tier creatures weakpoints (hp to imps and initative to deamons) it is really hard to grind PvE.
If you playing LAN dont bother using other hero then Deleb otherwise the opponent will develop much faster than you.
I would suggest you try this mod HoMM5.5.
It balances the factions and heroes and their spec so you can play whoever you wish and whatever faction you wish .
Cheers
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted July 23, 2016 05:05 PM |
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Edited by frostysh at 17:10, 23 Jul 2016.
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dredknight - Yo!
Thanx for patch, I will try, but before I need to resolve some issues.
And perhaps , after I will try this patch in single-player game, we will use in our multiplayer.
Anyway, I realized few things playing for Inferno:
1) Using the Imp soldiers against archer monsters = a very bad idea...
4 HP and 1 Def = = = > say goodby to your 1 week summon of Imps per archer monster guard.
The Horned Demons is much more preferable there. 13 HP and 3 Def.
VS 
2) Splitting you groups of soldiers to the few or more per position is much more better when planning the Hell Gate offense than 1 per position. It is a very useful against archers, because in anyway the archers will focus your main group. (sometime it is better to take a Defense position +50% by your main group before you Hell Gate reinforcements will come.)
And of course anything to the Defense will be good.
 VS 
3) The Light Magic is extremely useful for Inferno, because usually the enemy hero trying to Puppet, Weaken, and Slow your poor defense soldiers.. This is have a devastating result when you have nothing to counter it..
 +  = = = > 
4) The War machines and Leadership will help you in the battles against guard monsters.
 + 
I do not know which type of Demon Lord I will control in the future battles, The Demon Lord Mage is a very attractive for myself.
I controlled only The Demon Lord Warrior before, because they looks like a warriors (except Raelag in Campaign, of course).
The combination of Destructive Magic + Light Magic AND/OR Dark Magic/Summoning Magic looks a very good.
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zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 24, 2016 01:58 AM |
bonus applied by kiryu133 on 26 Jul 2016. |
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Young padawan frostysh, pick Deleb!
Warmashine start is by far the best in the game and inferno does benefit from it a lot. Due to lack of lvl 1-3 shooters you need warmashines early, or you will be doomed to develop a lot slower.
Try to focus on developing your warmashine skill early, dont pick other skills before you get 1st aid tent and balista. If the right perk is not coming improve your gating skill and pick some perks from it. Mark of the damned, hellfire and consume corpse are all good, but the truth is that if you have warmashines you dont need them, and if you dont have warmashines you creeping will be pretty terrible anyways.
Once you have 1st aid tent and balista perks start looking for the logistics skill. Extra movement is insanely good as it allows you to visit more stats boosters, get more arts, get more exp and so on. Good perks from logistics are warpath and swift mind. Once you get basic logistics start looking for dark or light. On most maps dark is better as getting the right light spells in time might not be possible. Once you pick dark/light start looking for a "master of" perk that will allow you to cast mass spells. Not having mass spells in the final battle is considered a major fail and almost a certain loss vs good players.
So to sum up - core build is Warmashines, Logistics and Dark.
Luxury skills are Attack + battle frenzy, power of speed and tactics - great vs any faction, but not as important as the 1st 3. On most maps going for attack after you have warmashines + logs + dark is not a good idea, as u need to invest a lot of skills to make attack worth it( its the perks from attack that are extreamly valuable). Expert attack provides only + 15% melee dmg boost, its way weaker compared to + 30% melee dmg reduction from expert defense or + 30 % melee and ranged dmg from expert luck. So attack skill is great if the map allows you to reach lvl 25-30 and not so good if you can reach lvl 15-20 before the final battle.
Defense - a must have for longer games with bigger armies. Not worth for week 2-3 final fights, but outrageously good for week 5+ battles.
Good perks from defense are vitality ( esp if the map has multiple low lvl dwellings), last stand and power of endurance.
Enlightenment - lots of free stats and a possibility to get mentoring perk. On maps where final battle is around lvl 20 enlightenment is not that great ( compared to luck, leadership etc), but if the map allows reaching lvl 30 before the final battle enlightenment is insanely good. Mentoring is also great as inferno has destructive spells in the magic guild, so mentoring a warlock or a necro hero for cheap strategies is very effective. Lvl 30 hero with mentoring can instantly boost all your other heroes to lvl 25, and a lvl 25 warlock with enlightenment, empowered spells, +50% fire dmg artie and armageddon can win you the game if you manage to cast armageddon on your opponents army.
Luck is also good, choose it over leadership or attack on lvl 20 maps, as luck boost you balista dmg. Swarming gate and magis resistance are good skills but not a must have.
So on small maps Delebs skills should look like this:
1.Exp warmashines + 3x balista + tent
2.Exp logs - nothing more
3.Exp dark + master of mind/suffering.
On week 2 rush maps you can swap Exp dark for expert luck.
On larger maps:
1.Exp warmashines + 3x balista + tent
2.Exp logs - swift mind/warpath + Snatch/Swift gating
3.Exp dark + master of mind/suffering.
4.Exp def + last stand/power of endurance
5.Exp enlightenment + nothing more. If the map allows you to reach lvl 25-30 go for mentoring.
If the map allows you to reach lvl 30 it also normally has a mentor building on it. You can use warmashines and logistics until the lategame and then visit the mentor building and unlearn them for some
might skills instead. A good inferno build on such maps looks like:
Exp attack + power of haste + tactics.
Exp def + last stand/power of endurance.
Exp dark + master of mind + master of suffering.
Exp enlightenment + mentoring
Exp luck + swarming gate + magic resistance.
Ofc there is some variance, Expert light is also very valuable for inferno as those mass buffs work on more targets. Storm wind is also great. Leadership + empathy and some diplo abuses come to mind too.
^^ that wall of text refers to the commonly played standard maps/rmg maps. On custom maps anything is possible, up to the imagination of the mapmaker.
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted July 24, 2016 05:46 PM |
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Edited by frostysh at 17:53, 24 Jul 2016.
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zaio-baio said:
Young padawan frostysh, pick Deleb!
Not worth for week 2-3 final fights, but outrageously good for week 5+ battles.
. . .
^^ that wall of text refers to the commonly played standard maps/rmg maps. On custom maps anything is possible, up to the imagination of the mapmaker.
Oh, Master of all Masters - The Great zaio-baio!, or whatever. . .
First Thanx for such an informative post.
Second I have doubts it will works in my case.
1) I picking RANDOM - Hero, RANDOM - bonus.
the chance to obtain Daleb is not so big.
I saw Daleb sometime in the Cafe at the 1st day (I am usually bulding the hero-hire building on the first day), sometime Daleb serves in my army as Ballista and Ammo Rack donor ('coz Ballista + Ammo Rack = 1,500 + (2,250 or 1,500) >>> 2,500 or 2,250 for Daleb hiring.,) and resource manager through map.
2) I am playing on "Heroic" difficulty setting:
 is usually guarded by 
or by a similar high damage/initiative spell-casters, of numbers ~ 20-50 at 1st week +11% percents/week of the week start numbers , So how do you want to defeat such monster on 1st-2nd week without the heavy loses by Daleb in your side ? O.o
3) The path through water will take a long time, without special skill that will summon the reinforcments from a nearest city you may suffer a bad surprise that AI Player i.e. have a lot more units than your army.
I have managed to obtain a new super-tactics by Inferno .
 +  VS 
just run by Dogs from Zombies! and hit them with hero, but DO NOT use War Machines against them because the all of War Machines will be eaten by Zombies! .
and BEWARE: Such tactics is a very destructive to your human-player-partners Nerve Systems, ~1 hour battle with Zombies! on the first week can make your allies crazy!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 24, 2016 06:14 PM |
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Just listen to zaio and stop playing that terribly designed difficulty. If not, then take it like a man and don't complain or ask what's wrong.
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted July 24, 2016 11:41 PM |
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Elvin said:
Just listen to zaio and stop playing that terribly designed difficulty. If not, then take it like a man and don't complain or ask what's wrong.
Yeah.. I will be a "brutal men Heroes 5 player"! And just will not type any of my loses/tactics/questions on the forum, How, haw! I am heroes 5 killing machine, where is ma' double-edged keyboard O.o? . Whahaha. .
I am joking..
I cannot stop playing on that terrible designed difficulty. The "Heroic" way, is ma' way!
Nah, I will post there my superior tactics - like with Dogs vs Zombies. Perhaps it will be useful for someone somewhere, somehow..
On the "Heroic" difficulty for Inferno, each battle like mini-chess party, one wrong move, the only one mistake - half of your stack returned to the Sheo .
My friend want to play AGAINST me . He will be Sylvan, I saw how easily he defeated the Unicorns 20-50 on the second week...
And I am will be Inferno - Random/Random. Difficulty "Heroic".
Is there any suggestion how I can survive the early game horror and obtain the victory ? Because I feel I will lose so hard :crying like a men: :*(....
I know for the which hero he will play.
Ossir.
Is there any good strategy for Inferno, against Ossir?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 24, 2016 11:49 PM |
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Yes, use flaming arrows and try not to get killed in creeping. If he has silver unicorns and/or resistance/boots of resistance your dark will be too unreliable.
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted July 25, 2016 12:12 AM |
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Elvin said:
Yes, use flaming arrows and try not to get killed in creeping. If he has silver unicorns and/or resistance/boots of resistance your dark will be too unreliable.
The Second advice is a very good advice . I know how easily Horned Demons and Imps falls even before the horde ~(50-100) of Goblins (Stronghold goblins, not Academy goblins.) .
First advice - The pint is, that to obtain a flaming arrows, I need to lead my army over the monster's bodies, but this is not so easy without the "Flaming Arrows" - this is a problem.. .
I realized that Inferno on "Heroic" is a hardcore for myself. I need to understand how to block stuck creatures as:
With a "Bear Roar" ability that destroying all my tactics very fast, i.e. 2 stacks of Bears Riders have their turn in a row, 1st one make it's move and killing my blocker Horned Demon x1 (I have a low regardless about losing a demons, anyway they just coming back to The Sheo.. ), and then the Bear Rider using it's ability "Bear Roar" and scaring the all others Horned Deamon x1 blocker, and then the time of second stack of "Bear Riders" to move.. I feel the same will be against Hydras.
And the VERY bad, when such creature protecting the Gold Mine which my friend usually will obtain on the first or on a second week with his archers ;-/
Dark Magic not so useful as I saw in ma' games for Inferno - Destructive Magic + Light Magic is much more fun and attractive for me. But suddenly the Light Magic is a very rarely can be obtained. by Inferno, usually I prepare the last slot for it.
I ahve the brilliant idea! I will build the "Magic Guild 1st" as soon as possible! And then the battles against monsters will be a much more easier.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 25, 2016 09:38 AM |
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The sooner you realize that the difficulty is the whole problem, the better you will be ^^ It is fairly simple, all inferno has in its disposal are WM, motd, sometimes dark, doggie hit&run, hellfire and gating. Of those only WM yields reliable results throughout creeping while the others are either situational or merely give a little push.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 25, 2016 10:48 AM |
bonus applied by kiryu133 on 26 Jul 2016. |
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Sorry, for the long delay over the weekend.
I don't know whether people have problems with reading comprehension, but the question is about playing RANDOM heroes with a FRIEND, not playing cutthroat competetion with strangers, picking everything to maximize.
Now, playing random heroes, but picking the faction is in itself something you can waste a couple of thoughts on, because you might want to maximize your chances by picking the faction offering a good general array of heroes AND no difficulties from inter-factional problems.
The problem with the Inferno is, first and foremost, that it misses first week forces that can take down simple opposing armies effortless either by ranged units or by a combination of high initiative and no-retaliation attacks, always supported by magic.
Inferno has neither.
Your 2nd aim is to take on ranged/caster troops with no to minimal losses which wou will encounter sooner than later (and on Heroic difficulty you may encounter a sizable number of Marksmen quite early).
The role model of an easy to handle force is Dungeon here. Furies are your weapon of choice against grunts, stalkers are massive against everything that shoots and casts, all the while having a chance to cast destruction spells as well.
Playing Inferno is the most difficult job, because your main problem is that you have to pick your fights a mot more carefully. If you have an unlucky layout you may face problems right away, which will stall your progress, but remember that suicide attacks will hand opponent the victory right away, so desperation and careless risks don't gain anything.
So let's look at the Inferno heroes.
Alastor would be a "hopeful" hero, Inferno's magic strength being on the knowledge side, because he comes with the Confusion spell, Sorcery and Mana Regeneration. Confusion is quite powerful, even without Dark Magic (creatures also forget to retaliate), and Alastor's special makes sure the spell will be useful against caster creatures as well (which isn't the case for standard Confusion spell). If you can survive with Alastor, your Familiars/Vermin plus Master of Mind will basically cripple opponent's magic capabilities.
The problem with this hero is that the timing of getting the right upgrades at the right time is all-important; with Dark Magic being a potential winner you can't afford to let it go, if you can grab it, but you also need sheer damage, especially at the beginning.
This hero is doubtlessly offering you a winning prospect, but you need luck in week 1.
Deleb is obviously good compensation for Inferno's shortcomings and a no-brainer, should you get it (that much should be clear by now).
Grawl may look good with his 12-15 Hell Hounds, but he's a trap as main hero. Flaw #1 is the fact you cannot gate Dogs right away (you need advanced Gating); flaw #2 is, Hounds are not good enough offensively and quite bad defensively, and Imps have the same Initiative; flaw #3 is, that the Kennel upgrade costs an arm and a leg in Wood and Sulfur; flaw #4 is, he comes with Advanced Destructive but without a spell. Which means, you do not want Grawl as a hero in week #1, because there is not much you can really do with either him and his skills or his troops EARLY (you might want him later, though).
Jezebeth is also a losing option, so it's immediately clear that you can surrender the game, should you get the Grawl/Jezebeth combo. Jezebeth as such is wortless as a main hero to fighht your battles with, but the Succubus she comes with is at least a good bait and therefore better than a few Hounds (as long as it lasts), so Jezzie is a good one to have BESIDE a good main.
Grok is obviously a good one, not so much because of his starting skills (although Logistics IS good provided you can make good use of it), but primarily because he comes already with the Teleportation spell (although not having Teleport Assault). With a cost of 8 the spell is obviously pretty handy, especially because Light Magic doesn't gain anything for it, so Grok is among the best you can get. Logistics has the additional advantage to be better equipped for the longer ways you may need to make because you'll have to pick your fights very careful, to make well visits and so on.
Marbas looks decent - but Defense isn't doing a lot for you (initially). The reason for this is, that your losses with gated troops don't matter at all, while a meaty hit, real or magical, against any of your actual big damage dealing stacks will actually cripple you, and the only thing that really counts is the damage they are doing, not suffering, which means, Marbas is better than Jezzie and Grawl, initially, but worse than the good ones.
I consider Nebiros one of the better starting heroes for Inferno: what you take in Attack has already been decided for you (Tactics, Frenzy and Power of Speed, the problem is, you need the same 4 level gains to get to Frenzy and PoS as everyone else, but at least the damage gain and Tactics are of immediate use. Still, you face a very treacherous hero-upgrading path and many tough upgrade decisions. The special is two-way split into immediately useful and a boon for the last confrontation, so all in all he's someone to start with.
Lastly, there is Nymus. This IS a playable hero, but you must realize that while he's guaranteed to gate a lot of troops, the longer he survives, you will initially either have to rely on Luck - Urgash-ly, but ultimately against the odds - or have something like a random damage and slight gating bonus as your only starting advantage, the actual worth of it isn't calculable.
So that's it. You have the following cases:
1) You get Jezzie and Grawl: Surrender - that's why you should play with the option of a mulligan for each player, when you play random hero/faction.
2) You get Deleb (play is developing logically and competetively).
3) You get Alastor or Grok; you may be in for an interesting game with a satisfactory final, but you need to play your best; if you get both (can't remember I did), I wouldn't know what to do - pray for a column of Enlightenment and a cheal first level gain for both, I suppose, to see what happens.
4)Nebiros; semi-solid option, but ultimately inferior.
5)Nymus or Marbas; not good and worth risking the mulligan for.
EDIT: Flaming Arrows has its downsides, because your Attack picks will miss both Tactics and Power of Speed, and you won't get it soon. Of course it is correct that difficulty (that is, stack sizes) are your main problem, because the bigger the initial stacks become, the more powerful the really imbalanced things (like Stalkers plus damage spells) become.
However - reducing difficulty level isn't changing the basic problem: while this will enable you as Inferno to take on lower numbering stacks, you will STILL take losses that others don't take against the difficult stacks, up to a certain point. In fact you could even make a case for heroic being better for you, since others may feel safe in taking on a stack that might turn out numbering the crucial few too many resulting in complete loss, while you wouldn't even consider taking on a comparable stack, whereas lower-number stacks will always favor the ranged and destructive guys (the Elves, for example).
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