|
| Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Inferno Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 ... 26 27 28 29 30 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
posted July 31, 2016 12:00 PM |
|
|
Why would you attack archliches with just imps and demons? That's suicidal. Then why would you attempt a hit&run with a rehired hero? Sounds too costly for what you stand to gain. Finally, why butcher your forces just to defeat an archlich stack that you don't even need to attack so early? Or at all?
About Vittorio:
1) An easy ballista killer is cold death but inferno destructive sucks. And having left the magic skill for last means you won't be picking the specific abilities you want easily. It is better to puppet or frenzy a unit into attacking his ballista. And said ballista should not be problematic unless you get rushed week 3-4.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
|
|
posted July 31, 2016 12:44 PM |
|
Edited by frostysh at 12:47, 31 Jul 2016.
|
Elvin -
Elvin said:
Why would you attack archliches with just imps and demons? That's suicidal. Then why would you attempt a hit&run with a rehired hero? Sounds too costly for what you stand to gain. Finally, why butcher your forces just to defeat an archlich stack that you don't even need to attack so early? Or at all?
Let's count, to defeat the 19x Archilich, and capture the Harbor on the Week 1-2, on Heroic, with Inferno, Nebiros, you need a ~6,000 Cash (to recruit an additional hero for a ship, and to recruit again your army leader), and then 10 wood to the boat. Usually on the map with a large water surface have a large amount of a wretches (~ 10 wood, 500 Cash) and Sea Treasures (~ 1,500 Cash), i.e. you can harvest something near 40 Wood and 8,000 Cash for 1 week, this is obviously will be a good, especially if you have a Market where you can sell some Wood for a Sulfur.
Obviously the profit is there!
The treasure on the water surface usually Not guarded... That because you need to capture the Harbor as early as you can, but suddenly Harbors usually protected by heavy Spell-Casters like an above mentioned Archlich is.
Hit&run tactics working only versus such monsters like a Zombies! vs Archlich this kind of tactics is useless, even if the Archlich is blocked it will cast a "Plague" upon your main stack... ;/
Too Poor that your army will suffer little bit, anyway this is their work, and they are immortal demons, so little regrets about 'em  . ~20 Imps, and ~10 Demons you will lose.
Elvin said:
About Vittorio:
1) An easy ballista killer is cold death but inferno destructive sucks. And having left the magic skill for last means you won't be picking the specific abilities you want easily. It is better to puppet or frenzy a unit into attacking his ballista. And said ballista should not be problematic unless you get rushed week 3-4.
My friend usually (almost always) picks combo-skills "Luck + Logistic", my Inferno Nebiros have 0 defense  , Upgraded Ballista + Fire Arrows + Luck , this is a threat.. I like the Light Magic for Inferno, especially if the "Stoneskin" is exist in the Guild, but suddenly the Light Magic is SO rare appearing in the level up
If I will get the Dark Magic, I will pick it up, perhaps, and perhaps I will use a "Frenzy" to destroy the ballista. - This is a very good idea!
The Vittorio may have an insane Defense, so perhaps the Magic Damage will be a good idea?
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted July 31, 2016 01:28 PM |
|
|
No.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted July 31, 2016 11:25 PM |
|
|
Frostysh, the best thing u can do with Nebiros on ubi map with heroic diff is to PICK WARMACHINES AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. Which is why the best inferno hero you can start with is Deleb.
Vittorio has the upper hand over Nebiros both on hard and heroic. The reason for that is:
Vitto starts with warmachines - its easy for the Vittorio player to get 3x balista and 1st aid tent asap. Here is what Vitto can loot on any difficulty with just crossbows, peasants and 3x balista + tent:
Week 1
1. Week 1 max Crypt - with 6 liches inside. Nebiros cant do it unless he gets warmachines + tent + balista asap. And most of the time you wont get those skills with Nebiros on week 1. Which means you risk to lose the game instantly if you attack a crypt. Vittorio doesnt, and the more crypts he visits the more gold/exp/art advantage he will get over Nebiros.
2. Week 1 max Gargoyle vault - 120 upg gargs + 20 upg golems. Again Nebiros cant do it. Not without balista+tent, and it will be hard with balista+tent too, as inferno doenst have early shooters. So with Nebiros you risk losing the game if you attack a Garg vault. So you shouldnt, unless u feel lucky 
Week 2
With week 2 army and a good week 1 game Vitto can loot:
1. Max elemental stockpile. 80! elementals, which will give him a lot of exp and will fix all problems with resources. Nebiros cant dream of it.
2. Max Dwarven Tresury with 5 flamelords, 150 shieldguards, 30 sharpshooters. Again, nebiros cant do it. Not without WM.
Week 3. With 3 angels/6 cavaliers.
1. Max Blood temple with 120 blood maidens and 30 dungeon lvl 6 upgraded.
2. Max Threant treasury - with 40 upg treants, 60 master hunters, 10 elder druids.
3. Max Mage vault with 3 phoenixes, 12 archmages, 20 mages.
4. Max Dragon utopia with 22 dragons.
^^^^ Nebiros cant do any of those things in that given timeline on ubi maps. Which is why Vittorio is favorite in that match-up. Being favorite means he has a higher chance to win it, not that he will win in 100% of the time. Winning a game with Nebiros vs Vitto might happen too, its just unlikely esp vs good players. On rmg maps things are not much different, but depend on the settings. Obviously a very rich map with very weak guards will give both players some relics early.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted July 31, 2016 11:49 PM |
|
|
Btw you can see guardian strength before jumping in. Just visit the location, decline and right click. It will show you what you face, approximately.
And yeah, Vittorio is just nuts
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted August 01, 2016 12:45 AM |
|
|
Elvin said:
Btw you can see guardian strength before jumping in. Just visit the location, decline and right click. It will show you what you face, approximately.
On h3
|
|
frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
|
|
posted August 01, 2016 02:14 AM |
|
Edited by frostysh at 03:18, 01 Aug 2016.
|
The War Machines of course a very good skill, suddenly I have not saw until the level 7 or 9 ;/ , So in that case I decided to not pick this stuff for Nebiros.
What happens in the game (As I remembered).
The map itself looks like a 3 Islands and large dungeon, North-East Inferno, South-West - Heaven, the Middle - large Island with obelisks to the St. Grail hunting.
The villages started on the level 3.
On the starting Island only 2 Mines are - Ore and Wooden Mine. There are also a Harbor and the Way to the Underground, +1,000 cash per week building and +random resource per week building, +2 spellpower building, and 2 artifacts (heavily guarded), and the some amount of light guarded wood and cash resources.
To get the Middle Island, you need to go into dungeon.
Week 1: Nebiros attacked 19x Archlich, Nebiros loses ~the half army of the all numbers of soldiers that Iferno has, and suffer a defeat. After supply from Haven 2,000 cash, Nebiros in the game again, and Nebiros attacking the still alive Archlices again (there was only 3 Archliches left). Archliches is defeated, Nebiros have +2 Spellpower artifact from 2x Treasure Chests, Nebiros picking the money and returned the debt to the Haven.
Week 2:
1) Beginning: Nebiros attacked a 17x Shadow Matriarch which is protecting the Harbor. Nebiros loses ~half of army again, and suffers the defeat. Nebiros has been recruited again, and attacks the still alive Shadow Matriarch (only the two of them is still alive), Nebiros capturing the Harbor, buying two boats - 1 for Grok, 1 for Nebiros, and the gathering of the resources is started.
2) The middle of week 2: The +4,000/day house is ready, the 2x Week Summon of soldiers building is ready, the Succubi' building is ready
3) The end of week 2: Nebiros has returned to the village (because of Leadership skill),
The week 3:
1) beginning of the week: 64x Arcane Archers is defeated, Nebiros suffers light loses - 3x Horses, few demons and few Vermins, (I have a hell no idea why I have bring the horses against them, this archers can be easily defeated only with a 7x2 Vermins or a 6x2 Vermin + 1x15 demons, or something like that combination, it's depends how many stacks of archers is, army... ).
The Hell Horses building is ready, the +1 Hell Horses per week building is ready, the Pit Lords building is ready,
The almost all of this building is ready because of the Water surface resource gathering (and some luck with a +random resources per week building). Of course the Vittorio through the same time, will wipe the almost all map, anyway - not so bad for Nebiros too, especially if we count the fact that Nebiros has been defeated two times..
So I am still have no idea, why the week 1-2 Harbors is a bad strategy  , of course with my noob' crazy first attack with the full stacks against 19x Archliches, there was some disadvantages..., but anyway for a pro-player this strategy on the water surface map will be a victory strategy! .
Anyway, I think my friend will win this game, but now I have a good (and fun!  ) experience of the game for Inferno Nebiros on the "Heroic" difficulty
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted August 01, 2016 07:03 AM |
|
|
zaio-baio said:
On h3
You are only right, not sure how I got confused like that.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
channeling capybara energy
|
|
posted August 01, 2016 08:00 AM |
|
|
@frostysh: You are building a strawman. Again.
____________
Friend-shaped
|
|
frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
|
|
posted August 01, 2016 08:55 AM |
|
|
The_Polyglot - I am sorry, but I do not understand you.
For now, Dungeon and Inferno is the most fun factions to play on "Heroic" for myself, I liked the campaign for this factions in the past "Heroes 5: .." .
But the Inferno - is a hardcore early game faction on "Heroic", comparing to the easy Haven, Sylvan, even the Fortress .
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted August 01, 2016 10:41 AM |
|
|
Actually Haven, Sylvan and Fortress do not have particularly fast or efficient creeping - barring warmachines ofc. Necro, dungeon and academy on the other hand..
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
|
|
posted August 01, 2016 12:06 PM |
|
|
Elvin -
Elvin said:
Actually Haven, Sylvan and Fortress do not have particularly fast or efficient creeping - barring warmachines ofc. Necro, dungeon and academy on the other hand..
:/
Academy, Haven, Sylvan, even the Fortress = = = > Just Surrounds your shooters in the corner, and then just spam the monsters to their defeat... You can defeat even the Angels in that manner without any of causalities ..
Long Range archers easily to get. Easily to use. + some good abilities that helping in monster defeating process + the same bonuses (such as the War Machines) that Inferno, Dungeon, and Necropolis have..
Inferno - is a hard on Heroic in the early game, you must predict the moves of you enemies by a few times into future etc... No shooters . Only the One your mistake, and say goodby to the some half of your main stack..
Dungeon - is a difficult on Heroic, you must pray to the Spellpower and Destructive Magic, or your Stalker become a visible after 3 turns, and if there is the stacks of enemies still alive... ;/ . You must predict the moves of your enemies, and VERY carefully choose your opponents ... :/ Not so easy. You must carefully use your Mana or you will have a VERY slow map exploration progress..
Necropolis - I have playing for them only in campaign, but 'Avatar of Death' of Arrantyr is a pretty tough dragon. Anyway, they have an Archers, and also their 'Necromancy' unit bonus, so perhaps they is a more easy in early game on Heroic through multiplayer.
This is from my experience. IMHO - Haven, Sylvan, and especially Fortress is like a cheater-like factions in the Heroes 5: ToTE 3.1 , they are totally overpowered in the late game. The all of this factions have a huge attack and defense, they also can use a magic on a 'not-so-bad' level, they all have an unbalanced abilities such as Rune Magic, or a super high initiative/luck, super large amount of paladins, etc...
Perhaps Academy is a little bit weaker, I do not know.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted August 01, 2016 01:55 PM |
|
Edited by Elvin at 13:56, 01 Aug 2016.
|
Just surrounding a shooter won't produce any spectacular results by itself. Marksmen and arcane archers can pull off some decent wins(others not particularly so) but nowhere close to those of a hero with ballista and/or decent magic. Anyways keep trying..
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
|
|
posted August 02, 2016 01:04 AM |
|
|
Elvin said:
Just surrounding a shooter won't produce any spectacular results by itself. Marksmen and arcane archers can pull off some decent wins(others not particularly so) but nowhere close to those of a hero with ballista and/or decent magic. Anyways keep trying..
Idk, but a Sylvan Shooters, Haven Shooters - it a VERY big advantage in the early game on Heroic, in tactical plan this a simplyifiyng the tactcis - block your target with Peasants/Pixies and shoot, and shoot, and shoot.
And What about Inferno - Deleb - ballista + magic? ;/ Haven have a Hero with starting ballista too, Sylvan have an Imbue Ballista, no advantage. With Haven'/and especially Sylvan' Shooters you easily can get a Golden Mine on the week 1, if it is protected by ~15x Unicorns, i.e...
And what about Inferno - week 1 Unicorns  (the exception of Deleb), perhaps Grok' teleport main stack through the battlefield to avoid a damage - Unicorns have a good initiative and speed, no way...
Dungeon - 15x Unicorns vs 20 mp + Upgraded Maidens assault through the 'holes', idk..... Hmm... :/, even the Necropolis will be a hard in that case.
So yeah, Haven, Sylvan is a very overpowered in the begging of the game, and in the late game. Fortress is a just a cheater faction with their 'Normal Magic' + Rune Magic.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted August 02, 2016 05:35 AM |
|
|
Nah.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
|
|
posted August 02, 2016 10:26 AM |
|
Edited by frostysh at 10:26, 02 Aug 2016.
|
Elvin said:
Nah.
I think you have a more experience then me in the multiplayer, so I think you know better the stuff.
But when noob vs noob, like I am vs my friend on standard map, Sylvan, Haven, Fortress - an imbalanced factions.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted August 02, 2016 10:34 AM |
|
|
That is because these factions are heavily biased towards lategame and unless you've practiced, it is unlikely that you will actively seek to attack the enemy player by week 4-5. Balance is relative to the player experience and inferno is not beginner-friendly to begin with. Even more so on heroic.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
|
|
posted August 02, 2016 11:19 AM |
|
|
Elvin said:
That is because these factions are heavily biased towards lategame and unless you've practiced, it is unlikely that you will actively seek to attack the enemy player by week 4-5. Balance is relative to the player experience and inferno is not beginner-friendly to begin with. Even more so on heroic.
What a hell of balance?
Fortress - imbalanced Rune Magic = +100% speed rune, yeah.... Resurrection Rune - yeah...
Haven - super mega skill, how many your opponent' stack killed of your monsters = = > how many this particular stack will suffer a damage, yeah... Hordes, and Hordes, of paladins with "lay on hands" - yeah...
Sylvan - idk, dragons with mega initiative, mega AoE, super-mega archers, super-mega defense, super-mega treants etc...
And what about Inferno o.O, what about Dungeon ? o.O Idk - hardcore with this factions, as for myself opinion.
Perhaps with your heroescommunity patches, smarty maps, etc, the H5:ToTE 3,1 become well balanced, but hell, vanilla is sucks about the balance, and the balance itself shifted into a side of Fortress, Haven, Sylvan..
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted August 02, 2016 12:51 PM |
|
|
Rune of charge and divine vengeance are typically banned in multi Other than those and lategame dwarves the balance is not so terrible.
But inferno certainly has trouble vs fortress. On the bright side they cannot get logistics easily, their creeping is crappy and thanes are hard to build early so you can gain an advantage by midgame.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
|
|
posted August 02, 2016 01:12 PM |
|
Edited by frostysh at 13:15, 02 Aug 2016.
|
Elvin said:
Rune of charge and divine vengeance are typically banned in multi Other than those and lategame dwarves the balance is not so terrible.
This is because of your heroescommunity smarty rules, but when I have playing my 3x human players game, with no allies, with my Dungeon against Fortress. There was a total catastrophe, not only because Player against Player battles, but also because this 'Haste + Regeneration' runes can help the fortress own any monster on the map.. :/
Elvin said:
But inferno certainly has trouble vs fortress. On the bright side they cannot get logistics easily, their creeping is crappy and thanes are hard to build early so you can gain an advantage by midgame.
About the 'troubles' with a 'farming' of Inferno, I have realized it's on my particular, and a very sad experience..  I mean, fortress 'creeping' is much more better than Inferno stuff.
I will use this advice, when my friend will play fortress against me. But I cannot just make a 'bannn' this cheating runes .
Anyway, I think this is totally unfair balance shift to the 'good alignment' factions in the ToTE 3,1 'vanilla', I just wonder, there was a mistake of developers or what? Because I do not remember such "shifts" in the Heroes 3 (I played only few times, and only because I like archaic games ), and Heroes 4 (I have played right after Heroes 3, in the campaign of the Cregh Khekh or something. ). . .
|
| |
|
|
