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Wolfsburg
Promising
Known Hero
... the Vampire Doc
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posted April 23, 2009 10:19 PM |
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Its not like he is understanding the bible mistakenly, Corribus.
The bible is quite categorical on the fact the sorcerors should be put to death.
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Again the book of all books shows how moral it is. Its persuasion still strong enough to preserve witch hunting brewing silently just to be pulled off back to light on freaking 21st century.
But lets face it with optimism, it could be worse. He could suggest we stone everyone who works on saturdays to death.
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted April 23, 2009 10:25 PM |
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Quote:
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Last time i checked the correct translation would be someting akin to:
"You should not let a EVIL magican/age/wizard/sorcerer/sorceress live"
It reffers to somebody who uses magic to harm others, aka thus evil mage.
Hold on! I got a source: http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcr1.htm
Quote:
Exodus 22:18 may have caused more murders of innocent people than any other passage in the Bible. Among the 20 versions of the Bible that we sampled, 14 used the term to sorcery; 2 to evil magic, 1 to magic and only 3 to Witchcraft. The latter were: King James Version: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."
The Promise: Contemporary English Version: "Death is the punishment for Witchcraft."
Revised English Bible: "You must not allow a witch to live."
Another: http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_bibl5.htm
Quote:
Verse 8 describes various groups who will automatically be relegated to Hell. In a typical biblical display of religious intolerance, the verse defines one group of victims as consisting of "unbelievers" -- apparently those who follow a non-Christian religion, or no religion at all. This would involved more than two thirds of the human race.
How the verse is translated:
There is no consistency in the translations of this verse, as they appear in various English versions of the Bible. The sixth group which is destined for Hell has been identified as:
21st century King James Version: "sorcerers"
American Standard Version: "sorcerers"
An American Translation: those who "practice witchcraft"
The Answer (New Century Version): those "who do evil magic"
Amplified Bible: "practicers of magic arts"
Authentic New Testament: "sorcerers"
Darby Translation: "sorcerers"
Good News Version: "those who practice magic"
James Moffatt Translation: "sorcerers"
Jerusalem Bible: "fortune tellers"
King James Version: "sorcerers"
Living Bible: "those conversing with demons"
Modern Language Bible: "those practicing magic arts"
New American Bible: "sorcerers"
New American Standard Bible: "sorcerers"
New English Bible "sorcerers"
New International Version: "those who practice magical arts"
New Living Translation: "those who practice witchcraft"
New Revised Standard Version: "sorcerers"
New Testament & Psalms: An Inclusive Version: "sorcerers"
New World Translation: "those practicing spiritism"
Phillips Modern English "those trafficking...in sorcery"
The Promise: (Contemporary English Version): "uses witchcraft"
Rheims New Testament: ""sorcerers"
Revised Standard Version: "sorcerers"
Revised English Bible: "sorcerers"
Today's English Version "those who practice magic"
Today's New International Version: "those who practice magic arts"
Tyndale's New Testament: "sorcerers"
World English Bible: "sorcerers" The translation has a footnote: "The word for 'sorcerers' here also includes users of potions and drugs."
Young's Literal Translation: "sorcerers"
And this one if you bother to read: http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_bibl2.htm
The bibles main problem is that translations is killing its meanins, along with all the heresy in it by people who wrote down spesific parts and removed others and cencored others.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted April 23, 2009 10:26 PM |
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Yes, but Jesus also said that the sabbath was made for man and man not for the sabbath. New testament's flippin' A!
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted April 23, 2009 10:56 PM |
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@Wolfsburg
It's a children's book. I don't think it needs to be taken so seriously.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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rubycus
Known Hero
-student of the mind-
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posted April 23, 2009 11:14 PM |
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Quote:
@Wolfsburg
It's a children's book. I don't think it needs to be taken so seriously.
I hope you don't mean that...
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A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted April 23, 2009 11:21 PM |
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Yeah, you're right. We should incinerate all copies of Harry Potter, burn the author at the stake as an example, and perhaps outlaw reading, too. Harry Potter is too dangerous to our children.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Wolfsburg
Promising
Known Hero
... the Vampire Doc
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posted April 24, 2009 12:23 AM |
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I was not disagreeing with you my dear Corribus, much on the contrary
I was most likely being sarcastic about religious intolerance. For its origins are deeply rooted in the very bible.
And dont you come with the interpretation card here boys.
Worked on sabbath, DEATH, witch or magic-wielding wathever, DEATH.
No translation issues. Thats whats written on the book.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted April 24, 2009 12:25 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
@Wolfsburg
It's a children's book. I don't think it needs to be taken so seriously.
I hope you don't mean that...
Of course he means that. The Bible has the same value as Homer's Oddysey or Illiad; Nice story, some historical events, but overall extremely exagerated. It's just a book.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Wolfsburg
Promising
Known Hero
... the Vampire Doc
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posted April 24, 2009 12:31 AM |
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With the big difference that no one was ever burned in the name of Homer.
For the Odissey does not pretend to be more than it is. A fiction book.
Opposite to the bible in which "every sentence is god-breathen and should be taken as a lesson".
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Doomforge
Admirable
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Retired Hero
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posted April 24, 2009 07:29 AM |
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Quote:
Worked on sabbath, DEATH, which or magic-wielding wathever, DEATH.
Christ worked on Sabbath.
Are you implying here God would contradict his own teachings? 
That part is a good example how man-made modifications made its way to Old Testament. There is no interpretation card needed: that part should simply never be there. There you go.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 24, 2009 07:55 AM |
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But who would then be the "father" Jesus is referring to?
In any case, not only is there a Chief Exorcist in the Vatican, Exorcisms are still done.
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rubycus
Known Hero
-student of the mind-
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posted April 24, 2009 10:02 AM |
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Edited by rubycus at 10:04, 24 Apr 2009.
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Quote:
Yeah, you're right. We should incinerate all copies of Harry Potter, burn the author at the stake as an example, and perhaps outlaw reading, too. Harry Potter is too dangerous to our children.
Quote:
Of course he means that. The Bible has the same value as Homer's Oddysey or Illiad; Nice story, some historical events, but overall extremely exagerated. It's just a book.
That's not what I meant Corribus. You're overreacting. It can't be compared to any other book...And Lexxan, you're wrong. The Bible is not just "a book". In fact it's a religious book for millions and millions of people. It is the most bought book in the world, so you can't seriously mean it has the same value as just any other book... Perhaps to yourselves, but look in the greater perspective and you'll discover something else, i think.
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A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.
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Wolfsburg
Promising
Known Hero
... the Vampire Doc
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posted April 24, 2009 03:56 PM |
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You will discover much more! You will discover its a holy book with a bronze age mentality, written by people who apparently heard the voice of a megalomaniac, vindictive, genocial entity, with a meager sense of mercy, a sexist, infanticidal troglodite with a fetish of ripping open the wombs of pregnant women by the edge of the sword. A book vile enough to not only illustrate, but also motivate many of the worlds injustices.
Poor Homer, having his masterpiece compared to the bible.
Yesterday this whole conversation prompted me to read the old testament again. I spent a couple of hours reading deuteronomy and leviticus.
Quite a lesson on sense of justice! Here it goes some of the highlights in Deuteronomy!
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.
Deuteronomy 13:13-19
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, and give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:
Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:
And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;
And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.
And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.
But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the snow in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
Deuteronomy 22:13-21
And so much more... Now, dont come with: the bible may be surprising and enlightening. After such a detestable piece of work, the minimum that you would expect is redemption, which can simply not be archieved by the new testament.
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Doomforge
Admirable
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Retired Hero
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posted April 24, 2009 05:41 PM |
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old laws mingled with God's name to strengthen them.
Big deal.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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DagothGares
Responsible
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No gods or kings
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posted April 24, 2009 05:50 PM |
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When we angage in bible quotes, this discussion gets boring, because it's like bringing a dictionary to a semantics arguement...
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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baklava
Honorable
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Mostly harmless
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posted April 24, 2009 05:51 PM |
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Quote:
Poor Homer, having his masterpiece compared to the bible.
Cause there sure is nothing sick in Homer's works.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted April 24, 2009 05:51 PM |
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Also, I don't care what passage you quote.
Since I only know things like: THOU SHALT NOT KILL
LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR,DAMMIT!
So yeah... Whatever...
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Doomforge
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Retired Hero
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posted April 24, 2009 05:54 PM |
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It's boring because atheists assume theists don't know Bible. Funny. They throw in quotes and highlight some lines without a comment. As if we were blind, couldn't read them ourselves and see.
Dear atheists: we know Bible. We know what's written there. You can't really add anything to discussion by quoting stuff we already know. Do us a favor and don't do it again.
Thanks in advance.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 24, 2009 05:55 PM |
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True, the old testament is horrible, not many here are denying it. The discussion shouldn't revolve around it..
I take that majority here is somewhat religious at least, which ones you believe in the power of prayer, as Rubycus does?
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Doomforge
Admirable
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Retired Hero
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posted April 24, 2009 06:04 PM |
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The majority on HC are either atheist or agnostic, Minion.
As for the prayer, I'm not sure. I think it does some good to those who pray, some people declare that and it would be arrogant to assume all of them are deluded and/or stupid.
On the other hand, however, there is a big bunch of happy, successful atheists, who fulfilled their dreams and desires. So you obviously can't expect as a theist that prayer will solve all the problems.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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