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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 25, 2009 11:11 PM |
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The bible is so weird.
In one page it says "Raping your wife and having sex with your children is a very fine art!!!" then it says "You WILL go to hell if you do this!"
Then it says "Slaves should respect and fear their masters." then it says "No human should be chained under an mortal master!!! If you do that you WILL go to hell!"
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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rubycus
Known Hero
-student of the mind-
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posted April 26, 2009 12:42 AM |
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This discussion is hopeless It'll probably be on-going for ever.
I want to ask you some questions about several real happenings:
-I have witnessed people getting healed by prayer
-People have witnessed someone rising from the dead
-People have had "divine guindance". As an example: Somebody drove quite a large distance and entered a garage after several hours of driving. The mechanichs searched the car and discovered that the steering wheel was completely loose, and could not be used for turning. The driver did not know. Still, they were able to drive for several hours!!
I can list up several more events, which would normally be discribed as miracles. But what are miracles? Or is this what you'd describe as randomness? ? How would you explain these?
You may choose not to believe my words.
But -I am not a liar, and why would I lie to you about such things?
They're unlikely, I know. And it is very unlogical seen from the sciense-point-of-view. But I know they're real. Anyone of you could easyly experience these thing, by joining the right people
Why would you just ignore them?
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A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.
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MysteriousMox
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 26, 2009 01:02 AM |
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I am an ateist.
Ateist member because we are getting more and more religion 
Religion should stay in the home and religious places and kept away from politics, not being used as threatening (islamists and extreme christians), and not telling people what not to do and not to do.
The evidence of religion is extremely bad. Just the case that the Earth having thousands of religion depending of geographic area illustrate this very clearly. Evidence is almost as bad as Santa Claus - it is just a matter of believing.
Evolution is build on a very strong scientific evidence and intelligent design is just a question of believing with absolute no science behind. Almost like going back to the dark middleage and we would never get new scientific knowledge.
Do not want to comment more on religion. Because then a lot of ugly words will come out.
And this is just a gaming site not a religious debate site.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 26, 2009 01:22 AM |
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Quote:
Evolution is build on a very strong scientific evidence
More like hypothesis.Quote:
and intelligent design is just a question of believing with absolute no science behind.
Abnormal Program Termination: Infinite Loop was detected.
Possible causes:
- Incomprehensible Logic
- Contradicting statements
- Obvious statement is obvious
- Bugs. Please report all bugs to http://thedeaths-ai.omg
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 26, 2009 01:23 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 01:26, 26 Apr 2009.
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Quote:
The bible is so weird.
In one page it says "Raping your wife and having sex with your children is a very fine art!!!" then it says "You WILL go to hell if you do this!"
No the Bible never says to rape your wife or have sex with your children.
The Bible says to love and respect your wife, which you can't do if you rape her. And it was spelled out in the Law not to have sex with your children.
Perhapts you would care to admit you are either lying or ignorant of the Bible.
Quote:
Then it says "Slaves should respect and fear their masters." then it says "No human should be chained under an mortal master!!! If you do that you WILL go to hell!"
Slaves are told to obey their masters for the purpose of winning them to Christ. Christ did not come to start a political revolution but to save souls. Jesus lived a sacrificial life and calls us to do likewise.
Your second quote is not in the Bible.
Masters are told to remember that if they misteat their slaves they have a Master in heave who will judge them.
So I can only conclude you are either a deliberat liar or ignorant of the Bible.
Quote:
Religion should stay in the home and religious places and kept away from politics, not being used as threatening (islamists and extreme christians), and not telling people what not to do and not to do.
Atheits in political power have murdered far more than all other religions combined.
Sorry, I won't be pushed in a closet and told to shut up by an atheist.
Quote:
The evidence of religion is extremely bad. Just the case that the Earth having thousands of religion depending of geographic area illustrate this very clearly. Evidence is almost as bad as Santa Claus - it is just a matter of believing.
I already showed how many atheists have murdered recently. Athiests have no room to call any kettle black.
Quote:
Evolution is build on a very strong scientific evidence and intelligent design is just a question of believing with absolute no science behind. Almost like going back to the dark middleage and we would never get new scientific knowledge.
Matter and energy can't just magically poof into existence from absolute nothing without a cause according to the laws of thermodynamics. The first cause was logicly an eternal God.
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Wolfsburg
Promising
Known Hero
... the Vampire Doc
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posted April 26, 2009 02:32 AM |
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Quote:
Atheits in political power have murdered far more than all other religions combined. I already showed how many atheists have murdered recently. Athiests have no room to call any kettle black.
Now the man is acting brainwashed. You have no evidence they did it BECAUSE of atheism, I have already shown this laughable fallacy of yours with all colors. And you keep acting malevolent, trying to poison the well, and use this as a ridiculous base argument that "atheist are bad". Now enough with the bull. I ask of you to bring any sociological article that points out atheism as a risk factor for killing. Just about any real article. And dont bring no squat from The Whitnesses of Jehova research group, either.
I told you before this was a fruitless and fallacious discussion, but you couldnt resist enter berserk-modus where you simply repeat this nonsense over and over. As if speaking it with enough emphasys would make it right to the members of this forum.
You need more then emphasys to prove atheits kill more. Which is of course, a distortion of reality to attend your purposes. Much like you daily do to the OT.
Ancient wars, spanish conquerors, crusades, dark ages, inquisition, witch hunting, warmongering politics, northern Ireland, Hiroshima pilots, George Bush, the largest percentage of the emprisioned population (reaching 76% according to some sources), fundamentalist groups among many others. YOU are in no position to point the finger.
Tough business for ya ahead:
Secular countries have statistically less violence
Atheist/agnostic population grows clearly on almost all american states while cristians have been doing nothing but lose popularity.
The official numbers
Growing strong
Top 50 atheist countries
If you are really convinced we are that evil, you better start arming yourself. We are an ever growing population.
A film everyone should see before completely accepting cristianism.
Peace, out.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted April 26, 2009 02:44 AM |
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Edited by baklava at 02:53, 26 Apr 2009.
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Skipping the rest of the post as I have failed to notice much presence of open-mindedness or willingness to listen to anyone or anything but yourself, I'll content myself with just one, single question; even if it means risking to feed the troll.
As a non-dogmatic person seeking to break the vile webs of lies and deceit religion spreads, have you by chance bothered to check the facts from the Zeitgeist video?
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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MysteriousMox
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 26, 2009 02:55 AM |
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Hitler was a catholic and talked about God in his speeches.
"Gott mit uns" (God is with us) even stood on the belts of the SS-soldiers.
Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao may be atheists, but their actions were because of political ideolism and wrong strategies of how to run the countries and not done because they were atheists.
"God did not create humans - humans created God"
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 26, 2009 02:57 AM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 03:00, 26 Apr 2009.
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Quote:
If you are really convinced we are that evil, you better start arming yourself. We are an ever growing population.
Sounds like organized religion to me.
When will the crusades take place?
Quote:
Hitler was a catholic and talked about God in his speeches.
"Gott mit uns" (God is with us) even stood on the belts of the SS-soldiers.
Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao may be atheists, but their actions were because of political ideolism and wrong strategies of how to run the countries and not done because they were atheists.
I thought this subject was already classified as pointless. And who said Hitler didn't do it for his 'idealism'? After all, his 'religion' was BASED on his 'idealism'.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 26, 2009 03:14 AM |
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Wow Sweden topped the list! Im so happy ^^
Then I was right about that most people in Sweden are atheists like I have said before!
In my class there are like 26 people and 2-3 are religious.
Today people only become religious because their parents influence them with religion and faith.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 26, 2009 03:17 AM |
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You wouldn't even know the term "atheist" or "atheism" if you weren't 'influenced' by something that made you classify such organized group.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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MysteriousMox
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 26, 2009 03:37 AM |
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Quote:
Matter and energy can't just magically poof into existence from absolute nothing without a cause according to the laws of thermodynamics. The first cause was logicly an eternal God.
If it is not possible then it is very strange that the big bang hypothesis was developed. Scientist will of course explain it with: From the knowledge we have it seems....bla bla bla.... but some things we can still not explain. (big bang is still an early theory, but fx evolution is one of the best proven scientific theories (though some christians often believe something else) - constantly science try to prove it wrong with no succes and each time it become a more and more evident explanation).
As always, when something is not proven religious people often think God is the logical answer. Funny they even some times make use of pseudo-scientific explanations. Religion is just a question of believing and not science.
If there is only little evidence science will always reason in a way like this: we have not enough knowledge. One hypothesis could be.... and not just conclude like christians often do.
Science has been very succesfuld in the human history. It starts with theory and little knowledge and then build more and more knowledge.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 26, 2009 03:54 AM |
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Quote:
If it is not possible then it is very strange that the big bang hypothesis was developed. Scientist will of course explain it with: From the knowledge we have it seems....bla bla bla.... but some things we can still not explain.
LOL
First of all, it seems to me, like you have faith in that "bla bla bla"... I mean they can say "bla bla bla" or "bla bla bla"? Or maybe "bla bla bla" instead?
And secondly, proper non-belief-based science does not attempt to "explain" what was before the Big Bang, it falls outside its area (well philosophically speaking it also is kinda weird, because the Big Bang, or God, created time anyway, so there can't be a "before").
Science is "pure and holy". But, like the Bible, it gets twisted, by those like you, who hold onto it like a belief. Or who make a religion out of it. Mind you there will always be some belief in science (even math has axioms), as you can't truly live without any assumptions whatsoever, but there's a whole lot of difference between practicing it as a systematical tool, and as an end or religion.
FYI, science doesn't even deal with truth, but it's ok, it's cool enough as it is. If it did, it would become religion, losing its uniqueness. Because absolute Truth cannot change, but one of the most important characteristics of science is that it changes. There's a word for an idea that never changes. It's called religion.
To represent truth, it must not change. Of course just because something doesn't change doesn't mean it's Truth (in fact it's highly unlikely), but having the 'change' characteristic renders it impossible, that is 0% rather than a minuscule chance, which is infinitely less probable.
Quote:
As always, when something is not proven religious people often think God is the logical answer. Funny they even some times make use of pseudo-scientific explanations. Religion is just a question of believing and not science.
And "bla bla bla" is not belief, since you don't even know what it is about. Right? Right???
Quote:
Science has been very succesfuld in the human history. It starts with theory and little knowledge and then build more and more knowledge.
My AI program crashed again with these two statements. 
It seems I need to make it more robust when dealing with strawman arguments or logical inconsistencies -- maybe abort the operation or something, instead of crashing. 
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 26, 2009 05:51 AM |
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Quote:
Now the man is acting brainwashed.
In other words you have no actual arguements, merely insults. Perhaps you have been brainwashed into the religion of atheism.
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You have no evidence they did it BECAUSE of atheism
They were atheists. They established atheism as official state religion. They burned churches and banned Bibles. Yes, I think it is quite obvious they were acting as atheists.
Quote:
And you keep acting malevolent, trying to poison the well, and use this as a ridiculous base argument that "atheist are bad".
Untrue. When I came back to the board after an absense of some time I checked this thread and what did I see. Still religion bashing around the clock.
My first post was in response you charging mass murderers who were "deeply Catholic." I am not Catholic but it is quite offensive for atheists to love to charge other religions with atrocities when their own closet is stuffed to overflowing with them. Quite hyopcritical.
No, not one time have I said all or most atheists are bad. I did point out the FACT (after your religion bashing) that atheism has killed more than all other religions combined.
Quote:
I ask of you to bring any sociological article that points out atheism as a risk factor for killing.
I showed to you real history. No religion has matched the carnage caused by atheist tyrants.
Quote:
Which is of course, a distortion of reality to attend your purposes. Much like you daily do to the OT.
Oh, every day I get up and distort the Old Testament teachings for some mysterious diabolical purpose eh? Are you capable of engaging in a debate without just making things up about those wich whom you engage?
Quote:
Ancient wars, spanish conquerors, crusades, dark ages, inquisition, witch hunting, warmongering politics, northern Ireland, Hiroshima pilots, George Bush, the largest percentage of the emprisioned population (reaching 76% according to some sources), fundamentalist groups among many others. YOU are in no position to point the finger.
If you had read the links I provided you would see a "relatively" small number of people died in the inquisions. Also, I already said Jesus did not tell his church they could punish sin. I CHALLENGe you to produce any verse of Christ where he said to go forth and punish sin or build a political empire. I am not Catholic and readily say that organization did things that Christ did not say to do.
The first crusades were actually to drive back Muslim invaders.
Again you are just tossing a lot to things out there that are not related to religion at all and certainly not condoned by Christ.
So the US imprisons drug users and such. What has this to do with Christianity. Also, what does Bush have to do with Christianity? Is he the leader of a denomination? No.
You are just throwing stuff up that is not related to or condoned by Christ. Christ said love you enemies and do good to them. Never did he say kill them.
Quote:
Secular countries have statistically less violence
Sorry, I already showed historical facts of what was it, over 250 million killed by atheists in past 100 years.
You are the one throwing the charge of mass murder against religion but you can't face the facts that atheism is the force behind more mass murders than any other religion.
Quote:
If you are really convinced we are that evil, you better start arming yourself. We are an ever growing population.
I never said all atheists are evil.
Oh you link to anti-Christian bashing video is full of error. Chrisitanity is in no way associated with a sun god or associated with paganism.
The Old Covenant prophets predicted the Christ would be God born into the world as a man through a virgin in Bethlehem. Christ would perform miracles, ride into Jerusalem on a donkey, be betrayed by a friend for 30 pieces of silver, have his hands and feet pierced, die for our sins, rise again, and pour out his Spirit on his people.
So everyone who says Christ is a myth based on a pagan sun god is a liar.
I have come to know that many atheists do not mind lying at all.
Again, perhaps you are just ignorant of the Bible and taking the video by faith.
Quote:
As a non-dogmatic person seeking to break the vile webs of lies and deceit religion spreads, have you by chance bothered to check the facts from the Zeitgeist video?
It is anti-Christian propaganda, not facts.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 26, 2009 06:03 AM |
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Quote:
Hitler was a catholic and talked about God in his speeches.
"Gott mit uns" (God is with us) even stood on the belts of the SS-soldiers.
No, Hitler was not Catholic. He publicly claimed to be Catholic for political purposes but his private writings showed his hatred for Christianity. According to CIA documents, he had three main goals. Destoying Jews, Christianity, and capitalism. Many Catholic priests and protestant ministers were in concentration camps.
Here are two of the quotes of Hitler from "Table Talk"
http://www.geocities.com/chiniquy/Hitler.html
Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:
Quote:
National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)
9th April, 1942, dinner:
Quote:
There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)
Quote:
Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao may be atheists, but their actions were because of political ideolism and wrong strategies of how to run the countries and not done because they were atheists.
Sorry, but they burned churches, banned Bibles, and established atheism as the official religion.
Quote:
Today people only become religious because their parents influence them with religion and faith.
Untrue. I know many Christians who did not come from a religious home.
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Wolfsburg
Promising
Known Hero
... the Vampire Doc
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posted April 26, 2009 07:54 AM |
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@Elodin
Quote:
*But people who were very much dedicated atheists murdered over 100 millino people in the past 100 years. That is just the major atheist tyrants.
*It is amazing that atheists desire to attribute evey death cause by anyone claiming to be a Christian to Christianity but refuse to acknowledge the extreme number of murders that atheist tyrants have committeed. And as I showed, no true Christian has murdered anyone. But true atheist major tyrants have slaughtered well over 100 million in the past century alone.
*No, atheists have, in the name of establishing an "religion-free utopia" committed, both in quantity and quality, the most dispicable acts known to mankind.
*As I showed, no true Christian, a person who has been transformed, and follows the teachings of Christ, has ever committed such a thing.
*Sure they did. They killed in their pursuit of a "religion free utopia." Atheism was official policy of the state.
*Atheits in political power have murdered far more than all other religions combined.
*I already showed how many atheists have murdered recently. Athiests have no room to call any kettle black.
*They were atheists. They established atheism as official state religion. They burned churches and banned Bibles. Yes, I think it is quite obvious they were acting as atheists.
*I am not Catholic but it is quite offensive for atheists to love to charge other religions with atrocities when their own closet is stuffed to overflowing with them. Quite hyopcritical.
*No, not one time have I said all or most atheists are bad. I did point out the FACT (after your religion bashing) that atheism has killed more than all other religions combined.
*Sorry, I already showed historical facts of what was it, over 250 million killed by atheists in past 100 years.
*You are the one throwing the charge of mass murder against religion but you can't face the facts that atheism is the force behind more mass murders than any other religion.
*Sorry, but they burned churches, banned Bibles, and established atheism as the official religion.
Sorry there Elodin, but as you can see Im not the one who seems to be running out of arguments. I just grew tired of hearing the same fallacious causation-correlation arguments over and over. Trying to make us look bad and therefore more easily refute our arguments. Acts also know as (exhaustive-)fallacy of repetition and poisoning the well.
And as I said in my very first post: a fruitless discussion.
W.
P.S - I have good reasons to believe most of Zeitgeist historical background (on the first chapter) is correct. But since that is off topic here, feel free to PM me for further discussion.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 26, 2009 09:30 AM |
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Quote:
Science has been very succesfuld in the human history. It starts with theory and little knowledge and then build more and more knowledge.
Oh no, another science guy.
Look, science is just a way to learn about laws of nature and universe. Religion is a way of living. How on EARTH you can keep comparing those? It's like comparing a swimsuit to a dildo.
Besides, science takes LOTS of assumptions, my friend. The whole black matter idea is based COMPLETELY on theory, since there is no hard proof. So you fail with your logic here totally.
But don't worry, like 99% "scientific" atheists do not have a damn clue about both evolution AND cosmic science that they constantly use as arguments. Besides Corribus, I'm not sure anyone on this board really has an idea about those. No, I'm not one either, all I know is some stuff from college and personal learning, but it can't be compared to Corribus' knowledge obviously. A good scientific question here would be, has the mystery of homochirality of the aminoacids been solved yet? I guess not (may be wrong, my book is 10 years old.).
Still, this is not a discussion about evolution or the origins of universe, so I won't ask how much you know about it, since it would be offtopic.
PS. Hitler was pagan. He was fascinated with Valkyries and Nordic religion as much as Xerox is.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 26, 2009 12:24 PM |
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Yes, it so cool ^^
Also the christains stole our nordic holidays and adopted them into its own! Atleast our christmas is still called Yule (Jul in swedish)!
The only holiday they didnt stole (and thus it didnt become famous) was the summer festival, Midsummer!
Easter & eggs etc was a spring festival and eggs symoblise rebirth and life.
There was probably some kind of autumn festival too, some kind of harvest but it never survived.
Yule/Christmas is a winter festival and the christmas tree comes from it. They also stole from the romans, or thats what my Illustrated Scienece says! :
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted April 26, 2009 12:49 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 12:49, 26 Apr 2009.
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Quote:
There was probably some kind of autumn festival too, some kind of harvest but it never survived.
Think the closest would be All Hallows Eve (Halloween) but that really isn't a christian holiday. Just a watered down version of a Celtic (?) holiday. (Not sure of spelling OR if it originated in their mythology).
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Message received.
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MysteriousMox
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 26, 2009 01:13 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
If it is not possible then it is very strange that the big bang hypothesis was developed. Scientist will of course explain it with: From the knowledge we have it seems....bla bla bla.... but some things we can still not explain.
LOL
First of all, it seems to me, like you have faith in that "bla bla bla"... I mean they can say "bla bla bla" or "bla bla bla"? Or maybe "bla bla bla" instead?
I did not want to wrote down the theory of big bang. It is a theory and still the best we got explaned by the scientific method - one day you will learn what this is (when you are older).
And secondly, proper non-belief-based science does not attempt to "explain" what was before the Big Bang, it falls outside its area (well philosophically speaking it also is kinda weird, because the Big Bang, or God, created time anyway, so there can't be a "before").
Science explain the nature and universe. Using the scientific method. The best people got. Science have some theories about big bangs are going in loops, but this can never been proved. God created.... is just silly claims.
Science is "pure and holy". But, like the Bible, it gets twisted, by those like you, who hold onto it like a belief. Or who make a religion out of it. Mind you there will always be some belief in science (even math has axioms), as you can't truly live without any assumptions whatsoever, but there's a whole lot of difference between practicing it as a systematical tool, and as an end or religion.
No, science is not a religion it is a way to explain the nature and universe. Not at all religios. It is the best we got (not necessarily trouth - they constantly try to prove it wrong). A lot better than a silly old book written down by people thousands year ago.
FYI, science doesn't even deal with truth, but it's ok, it's cool enough as it is. If it did, it would become religion, losing its uniqueness. Because absolute Truth cannot change, but one of the most important characteristics of science is that it changes. There's a word for an idea that never changes. It's called religion.
Science evolve all the time. Thanks for that. We get more and more knowledge so we can explain nature and the universe even better than before. Religion has still no evidence at all - it is still just believing in an old book (if you are christian and another book or saying if you believe in something else).
To represent truth, it must not change. Of course just because something doesn't change doesn't mean it's Truth (in fact it's highly unlikely), but having the 'change' characteristic renders it impossible, that is 0% rather than a minuscule chance, which is infinitely less probable.
tsk tsk. when you just believe then it is true, I hear you say. Then Santa Claus is also the truth. Evidence behind God and Santa is not so different. Nice we have the scientific way.
Quote:
As always, when something is not proven religious people often think God is the logical answer. Funny they even some times make use of pseudo-scientific explanations. Religion is just a question of believing and not science.
And "bla bla bla" is not belief, since you don't even know what it is about. Right? Right???
Of course it is believing - and absolute nothing else. Like all other relgions. What make your religion better than the thousands other? - Absoute nothing - it is just believing in some old stories.
Quote:
Science has been very succesfuld in the human history. It starts with theory and little knowledge and then build more and more knowledge.
My AI program crashed again with these two statements.
It seems I need to make it more robust when dealing with strawman arguments or logical inconsistencies -- maybe abort the operation or something, instead of crashing.
To bad you crashed - science can be hard to understand - maybe when you are older.
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