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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 27, 2009 06:40 PM |
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Minion, I don't get it. Do I need some sort of moral backup of majority to be a theist or not to be? I don't care whether atheists are 1% or 90%. I don't give a damn whether they are "scientists" or "dumb people". (High eduction has nothing to do with intelligence anyway, but that's a different topic.) In other words, I don't give a damn whether my lifestyle is popular or not. All you guys here seem to seek confirmation of your beliefs or lack of them by looking at the statistics of "scientists" as if they were some men above mortal intelligence. Why the heck you even bother?
And I mentioned those two (Einstein and Hawking) strictly because of that argument. It doesn't matter whether there are 5% or 95% theist-scientists. What matters it that even the greatest of them aren't strict atheist, which means that intellect and religion are unrelated, putting an end to all implies of "only dumb people" being religious.
And don't make a mistake of calling Einstein an atheist. He protested himself and asked not to use him as an "atheistic argument". He would most likely protest the same way for using him as a "theist argument". He also expressed his awe towards Jesus and cultural impact of religion overall. The interview is pretty popular, you can google for it and see for yourself. Not that my opinion would change if he said religion is stupid, but you guys seem to care very much for "scientific authorities", so why not to mention it.
As for backing up my claims: I already did (Hawking's "Brief history of time" - I don't need to elaborate I guess, if you're interested go ahead and read it. No, I'm not mentioning it because it's a book written by a "popular scientist". I mention it because I like the way it describes the universe.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 27, 2009 06:59 PM |
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Edited by Minion at 19:00, 27 Apr 2009.
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No, I just don't like misinformation. I would have never brought this study up myself, I see no relevance of it what so ever. I have already tried to steer this conversation away from science and you know it, I can't see what it has to do with God. It was YOU who brought it up by saying that there can't be a correlation of (scientific interest?) and religion because of Einstein and Hawkins. It was contrary to what I had read, I needed to reply and correct it. Lastly, you are getting personal here, I already explained why I gave the study, at least don't make it any more personal (in a negative speculative way).
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 27, 2009 07:10 PM |
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I'm not getting personal. It is very common that people look for some sort of backup of majority, don't you agree? here in this thread and everywhere else too. If you're not such a person, ignore that part of my post entirely, since it definitively doesn't concern you then.
Oh, and don't forget, that since I decided not to use smileys on forums, it may be a bit harder to notice whether I'm half serious about something or even joking. *winks*
And you don't need to correct me because I made no mistake about Hawking and Einstein. I quoted Einstein already (about his music of spheres) and Hawking, well, he's actually very close to a theist anyway, so no quotation needed there. In case you haven't noticed, it was meant to end to science vs. religion discussion, not amplify it - if I failed in my intentions, well, sorry about that.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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MysteriousMox
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 27, 2009 08:16 PM |
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Quote:
Of course religion is about believing. What point are you trying to prove here? The obvious?
Not sure you did agree, fine.
As for Einstein, yes, he did not believe in a personal God, I read an interview with him, don't worry, I know the facts. Do you know his famous quote about hearing the music of the spheres, though?
Quote:
In fact, Einstein tended to be more critical of debunkers, who seemed to lack humility or a sense of awe, than of the faithful. "The fanatical atheists," he wrote in a letter, "are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who - in their grudge against traditional religion as the 'opium of the masses' - cannot hear the music of the spheres."
I really like that quote and I agree totally. And for him being "just a single person" - who cares, he was among the greatest. Just proves my point that intelligence has nothing to do with God, contrary to what you seem to imply.
And you seem a person that definitively can't hear the music of the spheres. Sorry *winks*
Haha  I do not like religion, but I do not consider my self a fanatic atheist and I have never had this "hard struggle". Often religion tells people what to do and not to do - this is in my opinion up to people self to choose. See for example in several muslim countries, jehova witness, fanatic christians, etc. They often don't have their own choice, but are dictated what to do.
In muslim lands it may lead to punisment or even death if they do not obay, and in christians societies you may not be in the societies unless you act they way you are suposed to. I have no problems at all that people are religious if they don't got these restrictions and doesn't try to dictate what other should do.
Islamists, violent christians etc is a strong dislike for me. And politics and religion should not be mixed. People can be as religious as they like - I do not care. As long they do not dictate other something. I can not say that I do understand why they choose religion - though they probably don't understand the atheist choice.
I do not think religious people are less intelligent than non-relgious. Though I think they are very naive and also a little stupid - sorry, but this is my opinion. And I think scientists are more intelligent than the average man/woman.
Try Hawking's "Brief History of Time", if you don't believe science and religion can go well together.
I may read it some time, though I do not believe in his statement.
And it seems that most scientists also have another opion. Or let me reformulate. It may go well together, but scientists are very often non-religious.
You seems to like Einstein. For me he was a very intelligent physician and that is it. There is several other people who may have been as intelligent as him. But here is a few other Einstein citats. I do not necessarily agree with them:
“...As the first way out there was religion, which is implanted into every child by way of the traditional education-machine. Thus I came — though the child of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents — to a deep religiousness, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of twelve. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true..."
“The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naďve.”
“I am a deeply religious nonbeliever.… This is a somewhat new kind of religion.”
“I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.”
So if god exicst then it does'nt matter. He does not concerns with fates and actions of human beings. As I said before. Believe in a god to believe in the bible is very very very far from each other.
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MysteriousMox
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 27, 2009 08:23 PM |
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Quote:
Minion, I don't get it. Do I need some sort of moral backup of majority to be a theist or not to be? I don't care whether atheists are 1% or 90%. I don't give a damn whether they are "scientists" or "dumb people". (High eduction has nothing to do with intelligence anyway, but that's a different topic.) In other words, I don't give a damn whether my lifestyle is popular or not. All you guys here seem to seek confirmation of your beliefs or lack of them by looking at the statistics of "scientists" as if they were some men above mortal intelligence. Why the heck you even bother?
And I mentioned those two (Einstein and Hawking) strictly because of that argument. It doesn't matter whether there are 5% or 95% theist-scientists. What matters it that even the greatest of them aren't strict atheist, which means that intellect and religion are unrelated, putting an end to all implies of "only dumb people" being religious.
And don't make a mistake of calling Einstein an atheist. He protested himself and asked not to use him as an "atheistic argument". He would most likely protest the same way for using him as a "theist argument". He also expressed his awe towards Jesus and cultural impact of religion overall. The interview is pretty popular, you can google for it and see for yourself. Not that my opinion would change if he said religion is stupid, but you guys seem to care very much for "scientific authorities", so why not to mention it.
As for backing up my claims: I already did (Hawking's "Brief history of time" - I don't need to elaborate I guess, if you're interested go ahead and read it. No, I'm not mentioning it because it's a book written by a "popular scientist". I mention it because I like the way it describes the universe.
Nice...
That is the way it should be.
It doesn't matter what other think.
But why do you read all this books by Hawking and Einstein etc. if it doesn't really interest you ?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 27, 2009 08:26 PM |
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Yes but I never said Einstein believed in the God of Bible. The thread's name is about God - any God. Einstein certainly was not an atheist, and that's what I wanted to point out - also the fact that hardcore theists and atheists are pretty much the same zealots, only on the other side of the barricade.
For violent Christians, Muslims etc - I dislike them too. Everybody does. The question here however is, is it the knife, or the cutler? I think it's the cutler who is responsible, you seem to think it's the knife. In other words, religion is just a tool. WE are the ones who decide what to do with it and WE should take the blame for what we have done with it. Blaming religion for presence of fanatics is - imho - as pointless as blaming a knife for death of a person whose throat has been carved.
And as for intelligence, it's fine that you said it's your opinion - I of course don't agree *wink* but at least you aren't trying to tell us it's a FACT or an obvious thing. Something both atheists and theists fail to mention is that it all comes to opinions and preferences - NOT hard facts and absolute truths.
Oh, and as for books, I find them interesting, I just don't consider those people as moral authorities, someone to set an example for me. They are still very interesting to read for the sake of knowledge, though.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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MysteriousMox
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 27, 2009 08:41 PM |
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Okay, thanks for the discussion everyone. I didn't came in here to discuss religion, but to learn a little bit more about Heroes 5. Have not played it much yet. I can't play it on my old computer, but I am buying a new one pretty soon - and then I will play a lot.
I have played A LOT Heroes, but only Heroes 3. I hated Heroes 4. I like Heroes 5 it seems much more like Heroes 3, but with better graphic.
Dislikes in Heroes 3 was dimension door, fly, town portal (with expert earth magic), receiving arch liches instead of skeletons, armageddons blade and others where just this ONE THING will win the game for you - that is not fun. You should win by strategy and not poor luck.
Hope Heroes 5 doesn't have the same ONE THING winners. I have not seen them yet, but i still haven't played much.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 27, 2009 11:39 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 23:44, 27 Apr 2009.
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Quote:
Please post some data for your claims Doomforge. "a higher power behind the universe is very possible and pretty logical" Where do you gather they believe so? That is not true, at least in the case of Einstein.
"The harmony of natural law reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection." - Albert Einstein
I really like Einstein, and trust me "religion" is on the bottom of that list, sorry if this is off-topic, but here's one clear example where I 100% agree with him lol
"Since the mathematicians invaded Relativity, I do not understand it myself anymore."
Well said lol 
@bak: what has that article got to do with anything? Are you sure you linked the right one? This is just stupid monitoring of internet traffic, it's not like smart people can't encrypt their data/emails/whatever anyway. The beauty of all this is that anyone can choose a military-grade password/key to do it in full 256 bits or 448, that makes it literally impossible to crack in a decade for even supercomputers. However such passwords are very hard to remember because they are cryptic and very long (random), so you would need to write it down somewhere extremely safe -- but I doubt that they are interested in an average citizen's business anyway.
oh and most encryption tools I have are either free (no source) or open-source, you don't have to pay for anything.
EDIT: If you're a complete newbie and trust some central database to keep/encrypt your data properly, and you only want it for emails, you can use hushmail for starters. Ideally would be to use hushmail along with personalized encryption, because double encryption multiplies the time needed to crack it by 2, which is already long enough (when it takes 10 years, another 10 isn't such a small improvement don't you think?).
It can also piss the attackers off. If they somehow hack the hushmail database and start decrypting and cracking your messages, let's say with some random luck in 2-3 years, only to find out it's still encrypted (double-encryption or more) after so they'll have to crack it again -- assuming they even know the algorithm used. Most would probably give up at this point.
sorry for off topic.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted April 27, 2009 11:47 PM |
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@bak: what has that article got to do with anything?
Absolutely nothing. Gets along pretty well with the general spirit of the discussion, doesn't it?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Kraken
Famous Hero
I just love being elemental
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posted May 24, 2009 02:35 PM |
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I am also an Atheist. Christianity was just brought about to understand our Universe. 1500 or so years ago everyone knew that the Eartrh was the dead center of the Universe. Shortly after that we knew that the Sun was the dead center of the Universe. 500 years ago EVERYONE knew that the Earth was completely flat. And right now today, I am posting this.
All of our take on the world has been disapproved until now with our rise and power over technology. We now also invent new items, make new theories, and grasp our Universe in different ways. But we know that our false beliefs have always had someone attached to it. False Beliefs were debated, argued, and fought on. But Christianity is just like this. We've all been evoloving and we Homo Sapiens also have became rapidly violent evoloving. It's a way of evolution. So, we always want everything our way. The Crusades. That's what I am talking about. And Charlemagne's rule. He wanted to kill all who do not agree. Without Christianity, all those people whould'nt have of died. We keep trying to Understand our Universe as Humans, but we can't just say there is only one diety. The Greeks had: Zeus, Cronus, Artemis, Hades, Poseidon, and More. Romans had: Jupiter, Saturn, Diana, Pluto, Neptune, and more. Charlemagne's Holy Roman Empire had 1 god. The Vikings had Thor, Odin, and more. Pretty much, every culture on earth had at least 1 God/Goddess, to worship. You can't just say that there is just one god.
Now how do I know that there is no God? Well, here is something I saw on youtube. There is one math problem no CHristian can solve: How can 0 + 0 = 1? The first 0 is that nothing existed before God existed. The second 0 is that there was nothing to create the Universe out of. And the 1 is the Universe. How can Nothing and nothing equal 1? There is no proof of any God. I will say it again. There is NO proof in any God. And did we shape God in our own image, or God shape us in his image? There is so much evidence proving no Gods existed. Dinosaurs, Dark Matter, even Alien sightings! God could exist, but that's the same chance of there being a Flying Spaghetti monster.
I will update more on this later. I will answer any questions you have of what I just said. And as the Romans would say about me. Ego operor non fides in Deus. Atheism. It's what I am.
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Vini Vidi Vici
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted May 24, 2009 02:56 PM |
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500 years ago EVERYONE knew that the Earth was completely flat. And right now today, I am posting this.
No, not true...
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Christianity was just brought about to understand our Universe.
Do go on...
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Without Christianity, all those people whould'nt have of died.
Not exactly true, many people would have died anyway, because, you know, there were two cultures colliding and there was a lot of economic gain in those areas.
Charlemagne...
Well, if you remember correctly, there was an army of Turks, Berbers, Egyptians and such to the south of the French border which his daddy fought and he was pretty much fighting everything to get into high standing with the pontiff of Rome to become emperor. What? Without religion there wouldn't have been bloodshed? All those wars were political wars, only a few people (like Peter the Hermit) did it because they believed in higher forces. Oh, and through religion Clovis united the Franks and Jeanne d'Arc has quite a funny story about that too.
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You can't just say that there is just one god.
Actually, that's not a point of conflict. The Romans divided their belifs into different gods, so they pretty much knew who to blame all the time or explain something. Christianity put all elements in one God (or the trinity), so as to say: Yes, all your gods exist, but they are in one entity. Simple-minded people even pull in the entity 'Satan' to put all th bad gods in there and all the good gods in God. Now, one of the hard parts of the monotheist religion is always the question is God benevolent? Or: how can a benevolent God exist in this world?
Anyway, about your other points: it is called faith, nothing is certain, so why are you claiming to know everything so certainly? Is it because you want certainty? You want black-and-white answers?
Oh, and I fell for the trap:
P.S. Autem opero non fides in Deo (hey, guys, I know latin!)
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 25, 2009 02:12 AM |
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Now how do I know that there is no God? Well, here is something I saw on youtube. There is one math problem no CHristian can solve: How can 0 + 0 = 1? The first 0 is that nothing existed before God existed.
This math problem was really interesting but it fails at the bolded statement.
There is NO SUCH THING as "before" God because 'before' refers relative to a TIME INSTANT, but God created time so asking what was 'before' God is like asking what is the color of a second.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 25, 2009 03:42 AM |
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Without Christianity, all those people whould'nt have of died.
So before Christianity there were no wars. 
Christ taught to love and pray for everyone. He never authorized his church to kill anyone or to even raise an army. Christ did say there would be false prophets and wolves in sheeps clothing. No person who is truely a Christian is capable of mass murder.
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1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
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Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Now, if you want to argue that Christianity is detrimental to society and is an invalid belief system because someone who claimed to be a Christian (but was not) killed then you must aalso say that atheism is the most invalid belief system and least beneficial to society of all belief systems.
Lenin, Stalin, Hitler (no, he was no Chritian), Pol Pot, Mao, and other atheist tyrants not only killed way more people than all other religions combined, they also sought to crush all other religions under their feet and to make a state religion of atheism. Withint the past 100 years atheists have left quite a path of devastatoin in the world.
The closet of atheism is oh so very full and overflowing with skeletons so before you seek to condemn other belief systems you might want to think about that.
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You can't just say that there is just one god.
Why not?
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There is one math problem no CHristian can solve: How can 0 + 0 = 1? The first 0 is that nothing existed before God existed. The second 0 is that there was nothing to create the Universe out of.
God is eternal. No beginning and no ending. He is the First Cause.
Now, the math problem is somewhat difficult for atheists. You have to claime somehting came into being from absolute nothing and without a cause.
Atheism is forced into the equation that you accuse theism of. Atheism must say: 0 + 0 = 1.
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There is no proof of any God. I will say it again. There is NO proof in any God.
The universe is proof. Absolute nothing can produce absolutely nothing.
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And did we shape God in our own image, or God shape us in his image? There is so much evidence proving no Gods existed. Dinosaurs, Dark Matter, even Alien sightings! God could exist, but that's the same chance of there being a Flying Spaghetti monster.
Nothing you have mentioned disproves God in any way.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 25, 2009 06:03 AM |
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You have to claime somehting came into being from absolute nothing and without a cause.
As an atheist, I do not claim this.
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Eccentric Opinion
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted May 25, 2009 07:07 AM |
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Edited by dimis at 07:21, 25 May 2009.
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The First cause
Quote:
Quote:
There is one math problem no CHristian can solve: How can 0 + 0 = 1? The first 0 is that nothing existed before God existed. The second 0 is that there was nothing to create the Universe out of.
God is eternal. No beginning and no ending. He is the First Cause.
Now, the math problem is somewhat difficult for atheists. You have to claime somehting came into being from absolute nothing and without a cause.
Atheism is forced into the equation that you accuse theism of. Atheism must say: 0 + 0 = 1.
Quote:
There is no proof of any God. I will say it again. There is NO proof in any God.
The universe is proof. Absolute nothing can produce absolutely nothing.
That's exactly why the argument of the First Cause fails. If God created the universe, then who created God? Page 6 (you are allowed to read that part if you search inside the "first pages" of the book) - Bertrand Russell. An atheist doesn't have to justify something. A Christian though has to justify the existence of God if this is his/her argument.
The thing that I don't understand with almost all Christians (or any religious fanatics) is their strong belief on their "intuition" on justifying things. Why don't they actually try their intuition in math? They will soon realize that many "crazy" things can happen. That's the first thing.
The other thing that I don't understand, is why we have to settle to discussions about cosmology, or quantum mechanics when:
i) our math knowledge is limited
ii) our knowledge in physics is limited
iii) our intuition sucks many times before we see the solution to some problems
Finally, it is sad that all those physics books for the general audience (like "A brief history of time") seem to have a bad impact on discussions like these. Because, it is a general fact that people who read (no other restriction apart from having the ability to read here), in 99% of the cases do NOT understand what they read (i.e. interpret it wrongly). It is already a "good luck" scenario. Now, add to that the usually <= high-school level ability in math and physics of the average fanatic Christian, and immediately you realize the extent to which the guy knows what he is talking about.
So, you want to talk about the very first "moments" of our universe? You want to interpret time in such extreme scenarios for gravity? Leave the bible aside. Start working on the equations and the physics involved at those particular moments. Everything else is 
Of course when you do that we would all be happy to hear some interpretation of these equations and a description of the circumstances. But until then ...
Like Paul Erdös said You dont have to believe in God, but you should believe in The Book.. What do Christians do to improve "The Book"?
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The empty set
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted May 25, 2009 07:16 AM |
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Nice post, dimis. Though, I fear it will fall on deaf ears (or blind eyes in this case).
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 25, 2009 07:41 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 07:43, 25 May 2009.
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Nice post, dimis. Though, I fear it will fall on deaf ears (or blind eyes in this case).
It is interesting some people alwasys like to call those they disagree with blind and deaf or some other derogatory term.
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That's exactly why the argument of the First Cause fails. If God created the universe, then who created God? Page 6 (you are allowed to read that part if you search inside the "first pages" of the book) - Bertrand Russell. An atheist doesn't have to justify something. A Christian though has to justify the existence of God if this is his/her argument.
God is eternal, as I said.
Now you either have to claim matter and energy is eternal or that something came from absolute nothing with absolutely no causation.
And I beg to differ that the Christian has to prove his case and the atheist does not. Atheism is the minority view. The vast majority of the world is theist. Since atheism is the deviant belief atheists must prove God does not exist.
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The thing that I don't understand with almost all Christians (or any religious fanatics)
Including fanatics of the atheist religion I presume.
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is their strong belief on their "intuition" on justifying things. Why don't they actually try their intuition in math? They will soon realize that many "crazy" things can happen. That's the first thing.
That is quite an interesting statement since atheists catagorically deny the testimonies of religous people who say they have felt or experienced God in some way. It is atheist who claim that they are th fount of all knowledge and that nothing they deem "crazy" can happen. Atheists on this board routinely call religous people delusional, followers of fairy tales, ect.
It seems some atheists cannot objectively look at themeselves and their beliefs and the rhetoric they apply to others.
Quote:
Now, add to that the usually <= high-school level ability in math and physics of the average fanatic Christian, and immediately you realize the extent to which the guy knows what he is talking about.
Yet more insults towards Christians eh?
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So, you want to talk about the very first "moments" of our universe? You want to interpret time in such extreme scenarios for gravity? Leave the bible aside. Start working on the equations and the physics involved at those particular moments. Everything else is
Of course when you do that we would all be happy to hear some interpretation of these equations and a description of the circumstances. But until then ...
So far physics has not done so good a job in explaining the origins of the universe. I have an answer for the origins of the univers already. "God is the First Cause."
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted May 25, 2009 07:52 AM |
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Edited by dimis at 07:56, 25 May 2009.
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God is eternal, as I said.
Flashnews!
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The vast majority of the world is theist. Since atheism is the deviant belief atheists must prove God does not exist.
What if you guys introduced something that is not there? How can an atheist prove that God isn't there when it is a theist's imagination, since the theist only believes with no proof whatsoever (= definition of "believe").
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Quote:
The thing that I don't understand with almost all Christians (or any religious fanatics)
Including fanatics of the atheist religion I presume.
Read the whole sentence first. 
Quote:
Quote:
is their strong belief on their "intuition" on justifying things. Why don't they actually try their intuition in math? They will soon realize that many "crazy" things can happen. That's the first thing.
That is quite an interesting statement since atheists catagorically deny the testimonies of religous people who say they have felt or experienced God in some way. It is atheist who claim that they are th fount of all knowledge and that nothing they deem "crazy" can happen. Atheists on this board routinely call religous people delusional, followers of fairy tales, ect.
Oh, you did! And what was the interpretation?
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It seems atheists cannot objectively look at themeselves and their beliefs and the rhetoric they apply to others.
Elodin, do you want to say something? Just say it.
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Now, add to that the usually <= high-school level ability in math and physics of the average fanatic Christian, and immediately you realize the extent to which the guy knows what he is talking about.
Yet more insults towards Christians eh?
Why do you see this as an insult? Is it a fact, yes or no? Should I go to the priest of my local church and ask him to explain me cosmology? Why priests are not teaching cosmology or quantum mechanics in the universities? Is it because they don't have a clue more or less? What about their "followers" - "students" of those priests?
Quote:
Quote:
So, you want to talk about the very first "moments" of our universe? You want to interpret time in such extreme scenarios for gravity? Leave the bible aside. Start working on the equations and the physics involved at those particular moments. Everything else is
Of course when you do that we would all be happy to hear some interpretation of these equations and a description of the circumstances. But until then ...
So far physics has not done so good a job in explaining the origins of the universe. I have an answer for the origins of the univers already. "God is the First Cause."
Now you know the absolute truth. Whatever man. I hope God is merciful to you.
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The empty set
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted May 25, 2009 07:59 AM |
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Edited by dimis at 08:02, 25 May 2009.
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I forgot to mention above ...
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Nice post, dimis. Though, I fear it will fall on deaf ears (or blind eyes in this case).
It is interesting some people alwasys like to call those they disagree with blind and deaf or some other derogatory term.
It might also be the case that they are indeed deaf/blind.
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The empty set
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 25, 2009 09:17 AM |
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I have an answer for the origins of the univers already. "God is the First Cause."
This statement has as much value as the following: Big Bang is the first cause! It created time!! (Can you prove that wrong?)
Always the same....theists claim an opinion as a fact. Since hundreds of years...
God is eternal....he created time...so there is no before God. But even without time, he must have been created out of anything, no matter how much time that lasted.
And he created matter....out of what?
And he created all the planets and stars....out of what?
And he created light...out of what?
Oh...yes...I forgot...he is all-mighty.....damn...all questions answered.
Being able to create a whole universe, but not being able to destroy the bad part (hell, devil, etc...). Pretty fickle I would say...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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