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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted July 05, 2006 01:21 PM |
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Behemoths : Mastodonts - 2:1
Ok, I don't think that goblins are too weak to notch a bow (I mean, dude, it's a bow), but they shouldn't have the shooting ability. There's too much such lvl 1 units, as mentioned by war overlord.
I don't like paokais. The name sucks and they are basically blind wyverns. Let them use it in Dark Messiah where there's going to be like a thousand creatures anyway. I think wyverns should be there for orcs.
Since there's already wolf riders, and wyverns aren't beasts but a weaker sort of dragons (which makes them intelligent enough) they shouldn't be mounted.
Behemoths were daemons in Indian mythology so I guess they wouldn't like riders either.
Goblins and hobgoblins sound better than Goblin Minions and Henchmen. I don't know why, they just do.
And ok, we'll drop the stun ability, but crossing moats doesn't make sense. How can they swim over lava in inferno or jump over the ghosts in necropolis moats?
Shamans should really stay on level 5, cause they're perhaps even more powerful than inquisitors, and there's too much lvl 4 spellcasters. We can only change wyverns with trolls and vice versa so that the wyverns are lvl 6 and trolls are lvl 4. What do you think, sblister?
And what about Mercenarism? What do you people think about that idea?
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted July 05, 2006 05:32 PM |
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I think cyclops should be the lvl. 7 Stronghold unit. It could be a melee attacker to not outbalance the titans. 
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted July 05, 2006 07:59 PM |
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If the goblins have no bows, whos gonna be the other shooter? Besides they would suck as a normal melee unit.
Forgot about the lava for Inferno... Was thinking bout the Haven barricade, academy mines and the sylvan thorn bush... Leap over the lava onto the wall?? Sounds stupid tho...
wyverns not to be ridden and neither are the behemoths (shud they win over the mastadons). wyverns...lets keep them at level 4... i mean griffins are at level 4 and theyre powerful as hell. Plus the trolls are about the size of the hydras... much bigger and more hit points...
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted July 05, 2006 09:55 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 21:57, 05 Jul 2006.
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I don't know, fortressfan, I mean, cyclopses would have to shoot, or else they wouldn't be true "heroes" cyclopses, but if that would make them similar to the titans, it's better that we take behemoths or mastodonts instead.
SBlister, goblins would be relatively ok for first lvl creatures because of special abilities, number and cheapness. Gremlins are basically shooting goblins (with fur coats in the middle of a desert).
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 05, 2006 10:27 PM |
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-Lvl 1: Goblin
Great place to start, perhaps upg could be ranged? Maybe slinger like the H3 halflings, or using an atlatl. I like the climbing.
-Lvl 2: Berserker
Great again, maybe fanatic could be used as d/grade or upg, rather than veteran.
-Lvl 3: Wolf Marauder
Good, another Orc unit to keep a theme. Nice special.
-Lvl 4: Wyvern
Paokai or whatever it's called fits better for me, but would work better at level 5? Especially as Orc's magic unit shouldn't be too high in my opinion.
-Lvl 5: Shaman
Good, perhaps some more interesting specials could be added (both meanings of the phrase i.e. add some more and improve / remove (/ keep!) the current).
-Lvl 6: Troll
Good, would like to see the "made-of-stone" approach to trolls.
-Lvl 7: Mastodont or Behemoth?
Definitely the latter, without a doubt. Could use "gargantuan" too.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted July 06, 2006 11:45 AM |
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NEWSFLASH: Behemoths - Mastodonts : 3 - 1
Ok, hobgoblins could throw javelins. But they would have only a little ammo (I was thinking about 4). They would have no melee penalty. So basically you want goblins to look like this:
GOBLIN: Wall Climbing
HOBGOBLIN: Wall Climbing, Shooter, No Melee Penalty, Ranged Penalty, Overwhelm
Right?
What I'd change about Overwhelm is that your goblin stack must be at least 50% bigger than the target enemy stack, because 31 goblins can't overwhelm 30 treants or something like that.
Gnoll_Mage, I didn't put shamans to lvl 4 because there's already a lot lvl 4 spellcasters (all except the liches and priests) so I thought the Shamans to be lvl 5 while the wyverns (or paokais if you have to insist so much) could be one of the best lvl 4 units in the game (as good as griffins, at least).
And how about that instead Wyvern-Greater Wyvern we have Paokai-Wyvern?
For lvl 2: Berserker - Berserker Fanatic?
Also, I think we could start thinking about Behemoths' special abilities. And is there any volunteers to do the statistics about all of these creatures?
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted July 06, 2006 02:58 PM |
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Anyways, I'm going on a trip now and I'll be gone for about two weeks.  Make progress in castle development without me, I'll check out your ideas as soon as I return.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted July 06, 2006 08:04 PM |
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How bout Goblin: Shooter, Wall Climbing, Short Range
Hobgoblin: Shooter, Wall Climbing, Short Range, Overwhelm (but the ability needs serious modification and balancing tho...)
Shamans at level 5, wyverns at level 4 is the way to go. wyvern-greater wyvern. i'm not chinese, but paokai means beanbun with chicken in cantonese and millions of chinese ppl are gonna be laughing their asses of at that ridiculous name...besides wyvern sounds cooler in any language. wyvern in english at least...
berserker fanatic doesn't show that the berserkers have enough training to have mastered their rage and enough experience to have the no enemy retaliation skill. berserker veteran shows that they are seasoned warriors who know what they're doing. Anyone could be a fanatic, not everyone becomes a veteran.
Wait wait, the mastadons have not lost out just yet. and even if the behemoths do win, someone for the love of god make them looking anything other than king kong.
i wont lie to you, i suck at statistics... u guys are gonna have to do that one. ill give u hints tho:
goblin: weak hp, low armor, med attack, med damage, high initiave
berserker: med hp, high armor, med attack, high damage (blood maiden type), med initiave
wolf rider: med hp, low armor, high attack, med damage, high initiave
wyvern: high hp(for a level 4), med armor (until u add crystal scales), med attack, med high damage, med initiave
shaman: med hp, med armor, med attack, med damage, med initiave
troll: high hp, high armor, med attack, high damage, med/low initiave
behemoth/mastadon: no clue
happy stat making!
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 06, 2006 11:16 PM |
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NEWSFLASH: Behemoths - Mastodonts : 3 - 1
Ok, hobgoblins could throw javelins. But they would have only a little ammo (I was thinking about 4). They would have no melee penalty. So basically you want goblins to look like this:
GOBLIN: Wall Climbing
HOBGOBLIN: Wall Climbing, Shooter, No Melee Penalty, Ranged Penalty, Overwhelm
Right?
Sounds great!
Quote:
Gnoll_Mage, I didn't put shamans to lvl 4 because there's already a lot lvl 4 spellcasters (all except the liches and priests) so I thought the Shamans to be lvl 5 while the wyverns (or paokais if you have to insist so much) could be one of the best lvl 4 units in the game (as good as griffins, at least). And how about that instead Wyvern-Greater Wyvern we have Paokai-Wyvern?
Fair enough on the spellcasters, and your Paokai-Wyvern idea is good too - that or the other way round.
Quote:
For lvl 2: Berserker - Berserker Fanatic?
Not just Berserker-Fanatic or other way round?
Quote:
Also, I think we could start thinking about Behemoths' special abilities. And is there any volunteers to do the statistics about all of these creatures?
Hmmm. Multisquare attack? Chance of extra damage? The old defence reduction? Fear aura / shockwave? No, nothing stands out there; plus they'd need to have something special to make them stand against the other flying / shooting level 7s. Maybe give the Trolls' ranged ability to Behemoths (but level 6 doesn't need another melee tank...)
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted July 07, 2006 09:53 PM |
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Let me relist the units:
1. Goblin: Shooter, Short Range, Wall Climber
Hobgoblin: Overwhelm/Giantslayer
2. Berserker: Berserk, Enraged
Veteran Berserker: No Enemy Retaliation
3. Wolf Marauder: Pack Hunter
Dire Marauder: Unlimited Retaliation, Taunt
4. Wyvern: Flyer, Poison Strike
Chaos Wyvern: Crystal Scales
5. Shaman: Caster, Detonate Enchantment
Shaman Elder: Spirit Call
6. Troll: Shooter, No Melee Penalty, Area Attack, Ballistics
Battle Troll: Regeneration
7. Mastadon: Load Goblins, Trample
Mastadon Chieftain: War Drums
or
Behemoth: Armor Crusher
Greater Behemoth: Devour, Greater Armor Crusher
Suggestion for Shamans: Fanatic (Deals more damage to none stronghold units)and if we pick behemoth, give war drums to shaman elders
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 10, 2006 07:41 AM |
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I will put my version of stronghold creature up real briefly too
(some taking inspiration from other)
1:
Goblin/Hobgoblin
- Scatter - % of avoding hits from large creature
- Swarm - increase damage for every X amount of creature in stack
2:
Orc Axer / Orc Berserker
- Berserk - loose control, but gain attack and speed.
3:
Wolf Raider / Wolf Marauder
- Pack: increase in damage and attack of have another wolf unit around.
4:
Roc / Simurgh
-Carrier: allow to carry small creatures stacks for flying
-Bombdareer: Drop large stone on foe, damage all in 2X3 squares. Can use to attack walls.
5:
Oger / Oger King (a mutation of orcs. Become Giant and fat, like a walking Jabba)
-Fat: reduce physical damage recive by 50%
-Body Block: Will block all range damage for creature behind it
-Swallow: Consume any small creature, and gain in hp from attack (like vampire, but can attack friendly units)
-Throw Rock: Range attack, can use to attack walls. (1 shots)
6: Ogeret / Ogeret Psychic (a further mutation of Oger. Have small body but with a large brain.)
- Caster: Lots dark magic and mind related spells
- Mind Block: Make caster casting time increase. Can also use to target enemy heroes.
7:
Behemoth / Behemoth Tyrant
-Crush: reduce armor of attack creature
-Attack Walls: Allow to attack walls
-Berserk:
Now... if could also add in the Alternative creatures system, than could add in few others, like the suggested Mastadon with the Trample and Wardrumb ablity which I like... or Orc Shamans, with Blood rage casting, or Goblin Spearthorwer /Goblin Sneaker.
The overall creatures should be melee orienated.
Hereos would have the skirmish ablity , as well as the Rage ablity.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted July 10, 2006 10:11 PM |
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First an idea for the Ancient/Dire Behemoth. Its called ROAR. Say the behemoth has 240 HP and a melee unit stack manages to drop the HP below the half way point (ie 120), the behemoth has a 10% chance of roaring. What roar does is it causes all units 2 squares surrounding it to be inflicted with a kinda terror spell where they will lose their attack for the next turn and not retaliate for that entire round. Now the lower a stack drops the behemoths HP (aka say 60HP), doubles the chance of roaring...20%, 30HP...40% something like that. and a 1HP gives it a 99% chance of roaring. How bout it guys?
To reply actionjack:
1. goblins: mechanics wise, scatter is too much like the incorporeal ability. Swarm is too much like the packhunter ability used by our wolf marauders.
2. berserker-no one will wanna trade losing control of an orc for a gain in speed and attack. its better that they attack the closest enemy and deal a double attack. that way the player can choose when to send their orcs into a berserker mode. maybe they can gain attack and speed as a bonus as well but that might be a bit overpowering.
3. whats a simurgh? i think the general concensus is to stick with the wyverns as the towns flyers.
4. ogres body block is the same as the squires shield allies.
5. ogret vs shaman - i think the shaman has a wider array of abilities and is more practical.
6. from the looks of it behemoths are definately gonna beat my idea for mastadons. even in retrospect im beginning to think... mastadon..elephants.. well the academy heroes ride elephants... so yeah i think behemoths are gonna win. but i think the behemoths should look different than heroes III. maybe like the magnataur from warcraft.
keep the good work up ppl.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted July 10, 2006 11:13 PM |
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Quote:
so yeah i think behemoths are gonna win. but i think the behemoths should look different than heroes III. maybe like the magnataur from warcraft.
keep the good work up ppl.
I think you are right, Behemoths are probably going to win. But I have to disagree with the Magnataur look. It will make them look to much like Centaurs. For the people who don't know a Magnataur looks like this: 
On another subject, personaly I think that having a creature having a ranged area attack, the ability to seige is overpowered and have a no-melee penalty is overpowered . I think you should consider giving ballistics to the behemoth. To me it doesn't seem very unnatural for a behemoth to tear down a castlewall using it's immense strength. Then again, removing the no melee penalty for a troll doesn't make very much sense, if it's already strong enough to hurl the boulders. And removing the area attack for boulders makes even less sense.
I also still say that giving the Goblins a ranged attack will give this stronghold to much shooters (it would 3, since the shamen en the trolls also attack ranged). In my opinion it should be more melee oriented and if you give the goblins Javelins, the overwhelm ability wouldn't make sense, since those Javelins would get in the way if you, en masse, pile onto somebody.
Lastly I feel that if you are giving the wyvern upgrade the crystal scales ability, the name Chaos Wyvern doesn't make very much sense. To me Chaos doesn't connect to crystals, which would make Ancient Wyvern a better name, in my opinion, since it would take a very very very long time to have your scales resemble crystal.
Aside from my criticsism, I think you guys should also start thinking about some history, and lore and such things. I would like to volunteer for that. I've had good ratings when I entered the ICTC contest, especialy for my detailed descriptions of the race. I would enjoy creating a history and race description for the stronghold once we, if you'll have me help you with this, decide on the creatures and their skills.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 12:04 AM |
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Quote:
To reply actionjack:
1. goblins: mechanics wise, scatter is too much like the incorporeal ability. Swarm is too much like the packhunter ability used by our wolf marauders.
Scatter work only against large creature, it is like incoroporeal, but its for living creature. Swarm adds to their attack for having a large stack number of creature in one stack (and with other that is around) Its design to make them a weak, but potential giantlsayer type of unit.
Quote:
2. berserker-no one will wanna trade losing control of an orc for a gain in speed and attack. its better that they attack the closest enemy and deal a double attack. that way the player can choose when to send their orcs into a berserker mode. maybe they can gain attack and speed as a bonus as well but that might be a bit overpowering.
There are special rule to a berserk unit, such as it will try to attack nearest enemy unit first, and such. usually you make them bersker when they are close to enemy unit, and not at start of turn. They are suppose to gain attack and speed bonus when they are berserked. (unless take out quickly, they could cause alot of trouble to the backline of enemy troops)
Quote:
3. whats a simurgh? i think the general concensus is to stick with the wyverns as the towns flyers.
Simurgh is another large bird. Roc is more with the traditional stronghold town, but I don't want to see Thunderbird...
Quote:
4. ogres body block is the same as the squires shield allies.
Yes, its the similar idea (but Orger are large creatures, thus can cover more) They are design to be more like a walking wall, thought slow. (mix with Goblins, make them good combo against large and small creature alike)
Quote:
5. ogret vs shaman - i think the shaman has a wider array of abilities and is more practical.
Depend on what spell they have? I see shaman as team booster, while Ogret be more anti-caster, which would help dealing against enemy magic Heroes. Also they have advance dark magic.
Quote:
6. from the looks of it behemoths are definately gonna beat my idea for mastadons. even in retrospect im beginning to think... mastadon..elephants.. well the academy heroes ride elephants... so yeah i think behemoths are gonna win. but i think the behemoths should look different than heroes III. maybe like the magnataur from warcraft.
I like Mastadons, and the trumple ablity... it is just Behemoth is more classic.. and mastadon seem too team buff, and not a raw damage creature. But I am still open to Behemoth's ablity. (Behemoth should look like a large ape, with long task and long claws, and even 4 legs...)
-------------------------------------------------
Also I think alcibiades is too humble to put up his thread link.. so I will do it for him....
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=18489
Of couse, its a great job, but won't say its the best. Afterall, we all have our version, and should be be discourage to stop coming up with new ideas.
As for my Alt creature idea.. here is the link...
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=18509
Don't think will see it in the future, but I still stand by it to say I think its a better way to go. Also it allow to fit more creatures into a faction, solving problem like Mastadon vs. Behemoth.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted July 11, 2006 02:02 AM |
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There is no way in hell that the magnataur is going to make it into the expansion because its purely a Warcraft thing and ubisoft will be looking at a lawsuit for copyright infringement.
Troll ballistics is not overpowering, it just gives the Stronghold an advantage when beseiging cities. Each race has no more than 23 abilities in total for all their creatures. I fear with all our ideas the Stronghold might end up with toooo many abilities. thats why i thought of removing no melee penalty for the trolls but yeah they should have it anyways. I added chaos wyvern by mistake... its supposed to be greater wyvern... cuz we trying to come up with names that havent been used before like Greater Wyvern as opposed to "Ancient" which is being used by treants.
The new name list:
1. Goblin- Hobgoblin
2. Berserker-Veteran Berserker
3. Wolf Marauder- Wolf Ravager
4. Wyvern- Greater Wyvern
5. Shaman- Shaman Elder
6. Troll- Battle Troll
7. Behemoth- Dire Behemoth
War-Overlord you are more than welcome to do the history of the orcs. i suck as making up a background so do your thing. try to incorporate as much information that has already been given to us about their history and have a look at the map to determine which area they have settled in. I think the mountains are gonna be used for the dwarves so try taking that land mass on the north east. and also look up some lore in the dark messiah series.
actionjack, i think we'll stick to the wyverns cuz the rocs and thunderbirds are most likely gonna be incorporated into the dwarf faction. I think we are on the same page in terms of the berserk. introducing ogres will kinda mess up the formation we have right now so we'll just stick to orcs and goblins...
I've been thinking about the goblins and how to incorporate all your ideas. First off no one wants them to be shooters for some reason. ok. secondly everyone missed the fact that the shamans weren't shooters. only trolls and goblins were. but never mind. we are gonna give the shooter ability to the shamans and knock them to level 4. wyverns are going up to level 5. and now for the goblin solution:
Now goblins are melee units. I dont like the idea of them having maces, but spears will do just fine. but they are still melee units. Now scatter at first looked just like incorporeal... but think of it this way. a stack of 60 goblins.... u activate the scatter ability and they occupy a space of 2x2. this way, enemies can only kill one space worth of goblins instead of all of them. you wouldnt want to scatter them when dealing with liches or fireball wielding units(magi and pit fiends) cuz the fireballs will incinerate all 2x2 spaces.
Now swarm and overwhelm are pretty much the same idea. So lets give them that too. And an additional ability is that when scattered, a 2x2 space of goblins can attack every space around them but only one space gets retaliated against (aka they attack a stack of hellhounds, imps and demons around them...they target the hellhounds with the cursor and all the 4 spaces attack the 3 different stacks but only the hellhounds retaliate, of course with them splitting up each stack only does 1/4 the damage. but say if different enemy stacks are in reach of a single goblin space, those goblins get to attack both creatures. if one creature is within reach of two goblin stacks all those goblins deal damage as well. all the while only one square of goblins may get hit unless its an area attack spell (Fireball, meteor) or ability (War dance, three headed attack, fire breath, spray attack, mage attack etc). those would be the cases when the goblins choose not to scatter thus giving them a tactical edge. its confusing i know but i hope u all understand and give me some feedback...
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted July 11, 2006 02:16 AM |
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New ability and creature lineup:
1. Goblin: Scatter, Wall Climber, Mob Attack(While scattered, the whole attacking of different squares thing)
Hobgoblin: Overwhelm
2. Berserker: Enraged, Berserk
Veteran Berserker: No Enemy Retaliation
3. Wolf Marauder: Pack Hunter
Wolf Ravager: Unlimited Retaliation, Taunt
4. Shaman: Shooter, Caster, Destroy Enchantment
Shaman Elder: Call Spirits
5. Wyvern: Flyer, Poison Strike
Greater Wyvern: Crystal Scales
6. Troll: Shooter, No Melee Penalty, Area Attack
Battle Troll: Regeneration, Ballistics
7. Behemoth: Armor Crusher(Cleaving Attack that destroys armor), Devour
Dire Behemoth: Roar (yes or no?), Trample (yes or no?)
Mastadons are officially no longer part of the lineup.
There are 26 abilities listed up including roar and trample. we need to cut it down to 23. i suggest removing destroy enchantments from the shaman. mob attack is technically part of scatter so thats -2 abilities.
That brings us to the Behemoths. Armor crusher is what we loved about them in Heroes 3 and 4. We can keep two and toss out one, so which two are we gonna keep:
Roar, Devour or Trample
Happy deciding people. The more feedback the better. The Stronghold is shaping up pretty nicely. Good job everyone!!!
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 10:14 PM |
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For Behemoth you could take the traditional Heroes approach, or go for what I believe to be the Behemoth described in the Bible - the Age of Mythology Behemoth. It's a little similar to the one above, the idea is not new, so with enough changes copyright shouldn't be an issue.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted July 16, 2006 11:39 PM |
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I'm going to start with the creature disriptions, before I'm going to start on the history and race description. I'll do the Goblins and Hobgoblins first and see how you guys like those. (I'm going to give them Knives and Cleavers, mainly from a practical point of view. I still think that Spears are going to be more of a hindrance then a usefull weapon, Maces have the same problem. Knives and Cleavers are small, don't need a lot of swinging room and still do quite some damage. On top of that, Knives and Cleavers are more easily stored somewhere on the body(Tucked in a belt for instance), then Spears and Maces which makes them more usefull when climbing a wall.)
Goblins
Goblins are considered the lowest of the low by most races. These small, spindly, sneaky and cowardly creatures always operate in great numbers and for every one killed, there seem to appear three more. Orcs are the only race that allows Goblins to live in their society, but even there the Goblins aren't treated very respectfull and are there to perform the work that is considered to low for an Orc to perform. Goblins are small enough to climb over a castle wall without to much effort and use their serrated knives to kill once they get over. Goblins usualy wear no more then cloth shorts, have long pointy ears and have a lightgreen skincolour.
Hobgoblins
Only the most trustworthy and hardworking Goblins are promoted to Hobgoblins. The promotion is a painfull ritual, which involves the Goblins drinking spiked Orcblood. This bloodpotion causes small mutations in the physique of the Goblins, making them more muscular, causing them to sprout tuskknobs and turning their skin in a darker teint. Still lower then any orc, Hobgoblins gett to boss other Goblins around and are used by the Orc overseers to help them keep the Goblins as orderly as Goblins can get. Hobgoblins are marked by facial tattoos, a small helmet and a harness and they often use the flats of their cleavers to whack the other Goblins, to 'encourage' them back to work. Hobgoblins often use the large numbers of their kind to overwhelm their enemies, ordering the Goblins to pile onto them. Even the largest of creatures have to take time to shake of a horde of Goblins.
Tell me how you guys like this and be honest now, I've tried to encorporate all their skills in the descriptions and give them some feel in the process.
Apart form that I still think there should be some changes made in the creature line-up. Mainly about names and the skills of the Behemoths. Firstly I think that Greater Wyvern is kind of a weak name upgrade, perhaps we should change it to something like Earthen Wyvern, Cave Wyvern or Brood Wyvern, or something original at least.
I also think that the upgrade of the Behemoth should be a War Behemoth. With the Behemoth having the Armour Crusher and Roar (Although I think that should be worked out first) and the War Behemoth haveing Armourplating in addition, makeing them recieve less damage from ranged attacks (50 % or something like that) Because the Orcs use the Behemoths as living seige engines or something similar. I still believe that Behemoths should have a rider though, since having an uncontrolled Behemoth rampaging around the battle field is quite harmfull for the Orcs themselves.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted July 17, 2006 02:43 AM |
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Knives and cleavers sounds great for the goblins. Hobgoblin doesnt mean boss goblin. They are like giant goblins... like in lord of the rings the diffrence between the orcs and uruk hai,something like that except on a smaller (goblin) scale. wyvern to cave wyvern??? sounds like one lives in caves and the other anywhere else. same thing with earthen wyvern and brood wyvern, one lives in a brood and the other alone? earthen wyvern just sounds weird. i figure since wyverns are basically reptiles, they could use the Greater term like the basilisks did in HOMM3. sounds simple yet shows the upgrade superiority.
War Behemoth... we were actually trying to diversify the names so we wouldnt use the same name twice and War has already been use by the war dancers. so dire behemoths sounds better in my opinion. i dont think its necessary to put a rider on the behemoth. if the dragons could serve the dark elves, the behemoths should do the same with the orcs unmounted. armorplating would be too simliar to large shields employed by the footman and squires... we should try to diversify their abilities.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted July 17, 2006 04:59 PM |
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Hobgoblin doesnt mean boss goblin. They are like giant goblins... like in lord of the rings the diffrence between the orcs and uruk hai,something like that except on a smaller (goblin) scale.
I didn't know this, I admit I made up the Hobb meaning boss to explain to namechange. I think we need to explain this while still making it sound plausible. Having two breeds of Goblins sounds a bit far fetched to me and it doesn't explain why Hob is added to Goblin
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i figure since wyverns are basically reptiles, they could use the Greater term like the basilisks did in HOMM3. sounds simple yet shows the upgrade superiority.
Back in HOMM 3 I already thought that Greater as an upgrade name is to simple and shows lack of originality. Besides being greater doesn't realy explain the crystal scales, whatever (lore)reason we decide makes the wyverns have crystal scales, I think that it should be incorporated in the name.
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i dont think its necessary to put a rider on the behemoth. if the dragons could serve the dark elves, the behemoths should do the same with the orcs unmounted
I have to disagree with you here. Dragons are ancient beings, direct descendants of the (Dragon)Gods and are far more intelligent then any of the mortal races. For whatever reason the Dragons ally themselves with the (Dark)Elves, they are capable of handeling themselves because they are concious, wise and calculative beings. Dragons have a mind of their own and can be held responsible for their actions (if someone would dare do so). I can agree that Wyverns would be able to handle themselves because they are a bastardized breed of the Dragons and therefor should posses some form of intelligence.
Behemoths are a different matter. They have no or shown no sign of any intelligence other then beastly instinct. Behemoth are simple beasts, enormous raging powerhouses but still beasts. Having beasts like such on a battlefield without any guidance would be very dangerous for any side. It would be like having a dragonsized, carnivorous, war elephant(To make use of an example of a warbeast), if they were without a rider or other kinds of guidance, they are easily paniced if they are wounded, thus causing a paniced rampage which would be equaliy harmfull to both sides or at least the side which is in the direction it has chosen to flee (which in my opinion would be to great a risk for any armyleader to employ). Also if they would not have a rider, they would see no use in risking itself in a battle and therefor not take part in a battle. This would make a unguided Behemoth range from psychological, but otherwise useless weapon to being a more serious danger for you own troops then the enemy.
This is the reason why I will keep insisting that Behemoths have riders, from a practical point of view: beasts like a Behemoth would be either useless or dangerous without a rider, while with a rider they can be steered in battle making them powerfull and feared force in any army.
As for Armourplating, I agree that it does act to much like great shield. How about Spiked Armour, a passive ability that does a minor amount of damage(per Behemoth) every time the Behemoth is touched (Meaning when it attacks or is being attacked, the enemy hurts itself on the spiked armour)
I will do some more creature descriptions later today or perhaps tommorow.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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