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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted July 30, 2006 06:18 PM |
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Hey guys, I've returned and it seems I've lost the argument about the Behemoths. And since I have I will incorporate it into the creature description when I get round to the Behemoth. About the creaturedescription lenght, they give a bit of the lore around the units, explain their abilities lore-wise and describe a bit about the looks of the creatures. These are not the ones that would be used in the game.
Since we're still in the wyvern naming, I would like to suggest something like Quartzhide Wyvern, to encorporate their crystalscales ability. Ancient Wyvern would have my approval though, since that could be use to explain the scales if I put some work into it.
We still haven't decided on the abilities of the Behemoths though, but as SBlister seemed to like my idea of Spiked Armour. I suggest we use this:
Behemoth: Armour Crusher, Roar, Large Creature.
Dire Behemoth: Armour Crusher, Roar, Spiked Armour, Large Creature.
Armour Crusher - During attack X% defence (including spells) is ignored.
Roar - Activated ability, Clears area around Behemoth of enemies (Meaning they will run away)
Spiked Armour - Enemy will recieve X amount of (Bonus)damage when attacking or being attacked by the Dire Behemoth + Decreasing damage by missille attacks with X%
About the HobGoblins drinking the Blood, as I've tried to make clear by calling it spiked and a potion, it isn't pure Orcblood the Hobgoblins are forced to drink, it is a magic potion containing Orcblood, which causes the Hobgoblins to mutate and take over some of the traits of the Orcs. It would not have the same effect of turning Humans into Hobhumans, that would be quite silly. Besides it was your idea of making the Hobgoblins differ from the Goblins physically. I was only trying to create a reasonably plausible way of doing this. As far as I'm concerned we could go back to Hob being merely a name, indicating the difference in rank.
As far as the proposed dwellings go I agree with the dwelling of the Shaman and Shaman Elder. The others thought I would suggest some changes. First of all I beleive that we should try to avoid using the creaturename in the dwelling name. Secondly I strongly oppose the HobGoblin Warren, seeing as warren means(I've consnowed several dictionaries for this) a rabbitreservation or place where many rabbits live. Frankly I really don't see any connection between the Hobgoblins and rabbits. Here is my proposal for the dwellings
1 Trenches - Goblins
Quarry - HobGoblins
2 Great Hall - Berserkers
War Hall - Veteran Berserkers
3 Beast Enclosure - Wolf Marauders
Beast Penns - Wolf Ravagers
4 Tribal Totem - Shamen
Sacred Totem - Elder Shamen
5 Cliff Roost - Wyverns
Crystalized Roost - "?" Wyverns
6 Cavedwelling - Trolls
Cavefort - Battle Trolls
7 Arena - Behemoths
Colloseum - Dire Behemoths
I want to explain the last dwelling, before questions are asked. I was thinking about having the Orcs keeping the Behemoths there and using them to execute prissoners, and having the Behemoths fight others beast and gladiators, much like the Ancient Romans did with lions.
Lastly I was planning on doing Shamen and Elder Shamen today, but I came to realise that we have not talked about what and if Orcs worship anything, because I will need to encorporated that into at least the description of the Shamen and Elder Shamen. I myself was thinking about having the Orcs worship nothing or a crossbreed Dragon Patriarch. Anyway, I will do Trolls now and tell me what you guys think about it. Oh, I would also like to hear Baklava's opinion about my other descriptions.
Trolls
The Trolls are another race enslaved by the Orcs. The Trolls are an ancient breed of unknown origin and have been around since any race can remember. The Trolls themselves are enormous and immensly strong, though they are to dimwitted to be a threat on their own. Eventhough the Trolls are capable of speach (Barely), their intelligence is to low for them to have ever organised themselves. Ever since the Orcs have enslaved the Trolls they've used them in their war effort, using the Trolls to hurl massive boulders at their enemies. The boulders are large enough to squash an entire platoon, which once more demonstrates the strenght of the Trolls
Battle Trolls
The Battle Trolls are Trolls that have been especialy trained for war. These Trolls have been wounded so many times that their bodies adapted to heal faster then normal, causing the Trolls to recover from their wounds during the battle. The Battle Trolls, after long years of training, are less dependant of their Orcish overseers and have been trained to act as living cattapults. A squad of Battle Trolls are able to batter down castlewalls with their boulders. This makes them more valueable for the Orcs, which is the reason why the Battle Trolls are given some pieces of armour.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted July 31, 2006 12:57 AM |
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I like the idea of Quartzhide Wyvern. The Behemoths abilities are awesome. Let's stick with them. I still think that hobgoblins should be the offspring of orc and goblin rather than goblins drinking tainted orc blood. keeps things simpler and more realistic. Based on your ideas war-overlord here is my new take on the dwellings:
1. Hollows - Goblins
Trenches - Hobgoblins
2. Mess Hall - Berserker (I still like using mess hall cause berserkers are like unruly orcs and when not training spend their time eating, drinking and picking fights)
Great Hall - Veteran Berserkers (Those berserkers disciplined enough to survive the rigors of war deserved their own halls)
3. Breeding Pen - Wolf Marauder
Training Pen - Wolf Ravager (To show that wolves are bred to serve as mounts for the marauders and trained for ravagers. Enclosure is being used by the dark raiders of the dungeon)
4. Cliff Roost - wyvern
Quartzstone Roost - quartzhide wyverns
5. Tribal Totem - Shaman
Sacred Totem - Shaman Elder
6. Cave Lair - Troll
Fortified Lair - Battle Troll
7. Glacial Caverns - Behemoth
Glacial Depths - Dire Behemoth
I think Arenas and Colliseums have already been used.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 31, 2006 12:56 PM |
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I prefer the new names for dwellings.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 01, 2006 12:11 PM |
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I still think that hobgoblins should be the offspring of orc and goblin rather than goblins drinking tainted orc blood. keeps things simpler and more realistic.
While I agree that the mating of Orcs and Goblins is simpler, I don't think it's more realistic. Crossbreeding two races is quite impossible unless they are very much similar in therms of DNA. It tkaes usualy more then 99% match to crossbreed, that is why it would be impossible to crossbreed apes and humans, they only matches 97% I beleive. Since Orcs and Goblins do not have the same ancestry in any way (Orc's are a magic creation of Human and Demontraits and nobody knows where Goblins came from), it would be quite impossible to crossbreed them. On top of that I don't think any Orc would lower him/herself to mate with a Goblin. If it were possible to crossbreed them, it would take a very high amount of magic and I don't think that the Orc Shamen are capable of such a high form of magic, seeing that it took the Wizzards of the Silver Cities years to create the Orcs and I think that they are far more capable of magic then the Orc Shamen.
With Orcs being magically created creatures it would be very plausible that their blood contained traces of the magic that created them. If that blood would be mixed with the right ingredients, it would be beleivable that it could have powerfull effects on the person who would drink this potion. I also had a plan ready on how it was discovered.
The Shamen usualy mixed Orcblood to create a lethal poison, which they forced the Goblins to drink when they were to be executed. At a certain moment in the Orchistory on Shaman accidentally used the wrong ingredients for the poison, but had the Goblin drink the potion anyway. The Goblin , after drinking the potion, started mutating and died in the proces. This incedent caused the ruling body of Shamen to experiment with this potion to create a mutation potion which the Goblins survived. To this very day, the mortality rate of to-be Hobgoblins is still very high, as the potion is still not perfected.
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Based on your ideas war-overlord here is my new take on the dwellings:
1. Hollows - Goblins
Trenches - Hobgoblins
2. Mess Hall - Berserker (I still like using mess hall cause berserkers are like unruly orcs and when not training spend their time eating, drinking and picking fights)
Great Hall - Veteran Berserkers (Those berserkers disciplined enough to survive the rigors of war deserved their own halls)
3. Breeding Pen - Wolf Marauder
Training Pen - Wolf Ravager (To show that wolves are bred to serve as mounts for the marauders and trained for ravagers. Enclosure is being used by the dark raiders of the dungeon)
4. Cliff Roost - wyvern
Quartzstone Roost - quartzhide wyverns
5. Tribal Totem - Shaman
Sacred Totem - Shaman Elder
6. Cave Lair - Troll
Fortified Lair - Battle Troll
7. Glacial Caverns - Behemoth
Glacial Depths - Dire Behemoth
I think Arenas and Colliseums have already been used.[/
You are right about the Enclosures, Arenas and Colloseums being used already, I had forgotten that. I agree with the these names for the dwellings, except for the Behemoth dwelling. I do not see the connection between the Behemoths and the Glacial name of the dwellings. As far as I know there has been no Iceage on Ashan, so the glacial, which refers to that, makes not much sense. I do have a new suggestion for the dwelling which suits the terrain more, as I suspect we are going to use rough terrain as the homefield of the Orcs.
7. Deep Canyon - Behemoth
Bonelittered Canyon - Dire Behemoth
We also still have to talke about what the Orcs worship, which I'll need to encorporate in the description of the Shamen and Elder Shamen. I would still go for a Crossbred Dragon Patriarch, whom the Orcs worship as the Dragon of War. I was thinking him a son of Malassa, the Dragon of Shadows and Syllath, the Dragon of Air. But I would like to hear your ideas on this.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted August 01, 2006 10:20 PM |
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I love the name Bonelittered Canyon. Deep Canyon... How about Mesa Canyon? Dragon of War sounds awesome, but I think that the dragon shouldnt be the son of Malassa and Sylath but an equal.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 01, 2006 11:36 PM |
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I love the name Bonelittered Canyon. Deep Canyon... How about Mesa Canyon? Dragon of War sounds awesome, but I think that the dragon shouldnt be the son of Malassa and Sylath but an equal.
Mesa Canyon is agreed upon, as of now. Thus completing the list of Dwellings.
I don't think that any Dragon of War could be a full God, as war is not an element.
As you might remember, Asha the Dragon of Order and Urgash, the Dragon of Chaos were the Primordial twins. After Asha defeated Urgash, she gave birth to the Elemental Dragons: Elrath, Dragon of Light; Malasa, Dragon of Darkness; Sylana, Dragon of Earth; Sylath, Dragon of Air and probably a Dragon of Fire and a Dragon of Ice/Water. At a certain point in history Sar'Elam became the seventh Elemental Dragon, the Dragon of Magic.
With that list all elements are covered and we couldn't fit in a third Primordial Dragon, without rewriting the entire history. That is why I beleive the The Dragon of War should be a Demigod, a crossbreed between two the Elemental Dragons. Sylath and Malasa, were just an example, it could be between any of the six. (I don't think that Sar'Elam could have mated with the other Dragons, seeing that He wasn't a Dragon of birth)
Making him (I think that this should be a male Dragon) a demigod will give him near-godly power and immortality to the point of being slain. (Which would be quite impossible, seeing that he has near-godly power). Also because he is a Demigod, he would be physically present in some part of the world. As he is a Dragon of War, I think he should not be as skilled in magic as the Gods, but at least an equal in a fight. And his main chararteristics should be cruel, honorable, hot-headed and cunning (Perhaps with the addition of greedy, don't know why but it seems appropriate).
I've also made a short list of possible names by twisting known Wargod names and by combining weapons and bodyparts.
Odain ;
Camulon ;
Araize ;
Bishamor ;
Marxatl ;
Sethos;
Bladewing ;
Axetail ;
Razormaw ;
I'll stop here, tell me what you people think.
I seem to have some extra time on my hands so I'll give the descriptions of the Wyvern and the Quartzhide Wyvren. (BTW, i didn't remember what exactly Crystal Scales protect the Quartzhide Wyvrens from, so forgive me if I get it wrong)
Wyvern
The Wyverns are rumored to be related to Dragons and some even dare to state that they are the bastard ofspring of the Dragon of War. Either way their Dragon heritage is obvious, these winged reptiles are about 2/3 of the size of Dragons and aren't as strong, but are far more numerous. The serpentlike head of the Wyvern sports to long poisonous fangs and it's barbed tail has several poisonous spikes, though this poison is only numbing. Wyverns feed on antilopes, mountaingoats and cougars, some rumours even state that they hunt wild Griffins. Wyverns roost upsidedown, like bats, on large overhanging cliffs and in caverns and often do this in large colonies. The Wyverns lack frontlimbs, making them rather clumsy on the ground. Several Orc tribes have managed to cultivate the quite intelligent Wyverns, using them as scouts and in their war-effort.
Quartzhide Wyvern
The Quartzhide Wyverns distinguish themselves from their younger kind by their quartzlike scales. These scales are, like the mineral they are called by, very hard and have the unique quality of protecting their body from magic. The Wyverns get this skin in an unusual way: After Wyvrens reach maturity, they regularly swallow small pieces of Quartz to grind down the bones they swallow in their stomach. During this proces tiny pieces of the mineral break of and get into the blood of the Wyverns, where they eventualy reach the new layer of scales underneath the skin of the Wyverns. Every time the Wyverns sheds its skin, these new harder scales reach the surface. It takes a Wyvern about thirty years to have shed into full crystal scales, after which the Quartzhide Wyvern stops shedding its skin. Even though Quartz is a relatively lightweight crystal, a full hide makes the Quartzhides heavier, slowing them down a bit.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 02, 2006 07:34 PM |
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Surely mesa Canyon makes no sense - isn't a mesa the opposite of a canyon, i.e. a raised piece of land? Or am I missing something?
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Sblister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted August 02, 2006 07:41 PM |
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That's exactly what it is... A bunch of elevated elevated and a bunch of depressed canyons
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 02, 2006 09:08 PM |
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Ok, this Mesa thing is starting to confuse me. Anyway, tell me what you think of my ideas so far.
Seeing that there is no reaction on my request for any coment on my ideas so far, I might as well try to describe two more creatures; Shamen and Elder Shamen(BTW, we should define the Creature skills in the near-future, because I'm also unaware of the workings of spirit call). Once all creatures have been described, I will bind them in a single post.
Shamans
The Shamans make up the priestcaste in Orcsociety. They are the spiritual leaders of the Orcs and are the keepers of the lore. The Shamans are the Orcs that keep the every day life of a Stronghold running by preforming various ceremonies, creating multiple potions and salves and keeping the warriors in line. The Orcs worship the Demigod of War, and it is from him that a Shaman recieves his magic powers. Shamans channel this magic to gem-imbedded halberds, though this Demigodly magic is very unstable. The Shamen are also taught various spells, to arouse their comrades or to torture their enemies. They are also very skilled in breaking the minds of the enemy
Elder Shamans
The Elder Shamans are the oldest, wisest and most powerfull Shamans of the Orc Tribes. They are the advisors of Chieftains and the messenger of the Dragon of War. They are more able to controll their chaotic magic and are more reliable then their less experienced brethren. Elder Shamans also have the ability to commune and call on the ancestors of the Orcs, which is caused, according to Orc belief, by their bloodsoaked robes. The Elder Shamans have never confirmed or denied this.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted August 04, 2006 12:41 AM |
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The wyvern description is fantastic. The quartzhide wyvern, i dunno. Too much info maybe on how the scales are formed... I mean it would be nice to know all that but like the other units in HMOMV have shorter descriptions. I have this image in my mind of shamans summoning powerful magics to augment their physical strength and just punching the crap out of their enemies rather than using a halberd. I dunno if shamans should be ancestral worshippers and all that praying to the spirits of the fallen warriors and hence being able to call spirits. thats my 2 cents.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted August 04, 2006 11:40 AM |
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Call me weird, but I think Quartzhide is a somehow unnecessarily long name for upgraded wyverns. I admire your originality, though. I don't know, if you people think Quartzhide is good, than Quartzhide it will be.
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Oh, I would also like to hear Baklava's opinion about my other descriptions.
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WarOverlord, all your descriptions are beautiful, but as I already said, try to shorten them a bit. For example, the sentence: "The Battle Trolls are Trolls that have been especialy trained for war" in the Battle Troll description kinda insults the readers' intelligence. Of course they're trained for war, they're not called Battle Trolls because of their ability to play piano. I would also like to repeat that you should work a little on your grammar mistakes. Just a friendly advice.
About religion, the idea of orcs worshipping nothing doesn't make sense. I also don't think Nival will change the Ashan mythology and make a dragon of war. If they do, though, I think Vanador would be an OK name.
Or how about this wacky idea: since the orcs have a fiery and wild temper and culture, why wouldn't they worship the dragon of fire (whatever his name is)? Then the Shaman dwellings could be something like Ritual flame - Eternal flame or something. It would be weird though...
Another small thing:
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While I agree that the mating of Orcs and Goblins is simpler, I don't think it's more realistic. Crossbreeding two races is quite impossible unless they are very much similar in therms of DNA. It tkaes usualy more then 99% match to crossbreed, that is why it would be impossible to crossbreed apes and humans, they only matches 97% I beleive.
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Sorry, are you talking about realism, logic and DNA in a game which contains spells, rakshasas and dragons? Just asking...
About behemoths' dwelling, I think something simple would be best. I don't know... Forbidden Crag - Forbidden Canyon?
By the way, WarOverlord, since my modem is back now, I can do the town history. I think it could be ready by tomorrow. I thought we could split the work, cause you're doing the creature descriptions.
Finally, we have found someone willing to do the creature stats. OK, gnollmage, I think our creature lineup currently looks something like this:
Goblins - Hobgoblins
Berserkers - Berserker veterans
Wolf marauders - Wolf ravagers
Wyverns - Quartzhide wyverns
Shamans - Elder shamans
Trolls - Battle trolls
Behemoths - Dire behemoths
I hope that will be helpful to you.
It seems we're getting quite good at this "Pimp my Stronghold" job...
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 04, 2006 06:39 PM |
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The wyvern description is fantastic. The quartzhide wyvern, i dunno. Too much info maybe on how the scales are formed... I mean it would be nice to know all that but like the other units in HMOMV have shorter descriptions. I have this image in my mind of shamans summoning powerful magics to augment their physical strength and just punching the crap out of their enemies rather than using a halberd. I dunno if shamans should be ancestral worshippers and all that praying to the spirits of the fallen warriors and hence being able to call spirits. thats my 2 cents.
Like I have said before, these are not the descpritions that would be used in the game, these are lore-descriptions, to deeply explain the creature. About the shamans, if you wanted the shamans to punch the crap of of the enemy, you shouldn't have made them shooters. And I used halberds as a welcome variation on magic users using a wand or staff, it also seems more appropriate if they worship the Dragon of War. Calling spirits wasn't my idea and I had no Idea of what the ability would do, so I just made something up. Presumably, I would have done a better job, if I had known. Still summoning undead on the field seems weird, wouldn't that ruine the morale ?
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For example, the sentence: "The Battle Trolls are Trolls that have been especialy trained for war" in the Battle Troll description kinda insults the readers' intelligence. Of course they're trained for war, they're not called Battle Trolls because of their ability to play piano. I would also like to repeat that you should work a little on your grammar mistakes. Just a friendly advice.
I agree that, this sentence is kind of useless, but at the time I couldn't come up with a better introduction. The matter of spelling mistakes are not realy my fault, it is caused by the light form of dyslexia I suffer from. But once I'm done with all the descriptions, I will have them run over by the spelling corrector of Word and combine them in one post.
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About religion, the idea of orcs worshipping nothing doesn't make sense. I also don't think Nival will change the Ashan mythology and make a dragon of war. If they do, though, I think Vanador would be an OK name.
Or how about this wacky idea: since the orcs have a fiery and wild temper and culture, why wouldn't they worship the dragon of fire (whatever his name is)? Then the Shaman dwellings could be something like Ritual flame - Eternal flame or something. It would be weird though...
With my demigod of war, we're not changing the mythology, just adding something new, but we could come up with a different way of making it exist. Vanador would be a nice name, though it doesn't sound tough to me. Then again, neither do some of my names, although I'm still quite partial to Camulon.
Worshipping the Dragon of Fire (Which isn't actualy confirmed, eventhough some people claim otherwise) is also an option. Thought it would be quite hard to encorporate this. Especialy since this isn't reflected in anyway in the creatures or anything else at the moment.
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Another small thing:
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While I agree that the mating of Orcs and Goblins is simpler, I don't think it's more realistic. Crossbreeding two races is quite impossible unless they are very much similar in therms of DNA. It tkaes usualy more then 99% match to crossbreed, that is why it would be impossible to crossbreed apes and humans, they only matches 97% I beleive.
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Sorry, are you talking about realism, logic and DNA in a game which contains spells, rakshasas and dragons? Just asking...
About behemoths' dwelling, I think something simple would be best. I don't know... Forbidden Crag - Forbidden Canyon?
Fantasy and logic are not opposites, though the former often does not contain enough of the latter. Either way, the fantasy in HOMM, to me, has been quite logical, so it could't hurt. And I also still stick to my other statement; No Orc would lower him/herself to mating with a Goblin. They are cowardly, spindly little slavecreatures for Pete's sake.
How about making the Behemoth dwelling : Forbidden Canyon - Bonelittered Canyon.
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Finally, we have found someone willing to do the creature stats. OK, gnollmage, I think our creature lineup currently looks something like this:
Goblins - Hobgoblins
Berserkers - Berserker veterans
Wolf marauders - Wolf ravagers
Wyverns - Quartzhide wyverns
Shamans - Elder shamans
Trolls - Battle trolls
Behemoths - Dire behemoths
I hope that will be helpful to you.
I thought we had switched the Shamans and the Wyverns some time ago, but either would suit me fine.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted August 04, 2006 10:55 PM |
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Wait wait wait, I'm confused. What does having to be shooters do with the Shaman's melee combat ability? I still want them to punch the crap out of their enemies at melee and shoot some weird magic bolt or something at range. Call spirit is not to summon a creature. you can use the spirit for a number of things:
A) augment the attack, defense and damage of friendlies.
B) Lower the attack, defense, blah blah of enemies.
They are like a walking enchantment that moves from unit to unit if you want to. You can leave them at one stack or move em from stack to stack depending on their strategy. the only way you can kill a spirit is to use the banish ability. dispel removes a number of spirits from a stack but not all of them. the more spirits raised the more they either increase or lower a stacks statistic. they are NOT undead, they are elemental.
As far as no orc mating with a goblin, come on now. ive seen HUMANS in real life going out with other "humans" who look like creatures from the black lagoon. and an orc who aint all that in orc society is definetely gonna look for punani else where, ie goblins. im being realistic is all.
I would say bonelittered canyon to forbidden canyon. forbidden sounds like a place dire behemoths would hang out.
I dunno whether wyverns are level 5 or 4 anymore. someone needs to get that list with all their abilities and what it does sorted out.
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted August 04, 2006 10:59 PM |
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Ok heres what happens when you use spirit call. you press the button and you select a dead stack. the stack is turned to a spirit stack. the number of spirits summoned depends on the number of shamans. the spirits cannot attack and can be harmed by spells but not physical attacks. they can be used to:
1. make a friendly stack more powerful
2. make an enemy stack weaker.
the level of statistics raised depends on the number of spirits. using banish wipes them out. using dispel removes a portion depending on spellpower/number of creatures in the stack casting dispel.
the only thing we need to decide is whether the spirits are permanent til the end of the battle or last for a certain amount of turns before being unsummoned. They are elemental, not undead.
I hope that clears things up.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted August 05, 2006 11:42 AM |
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Those spirits look pretty neat, but I don't know how Nival will react to them.
And I found something strange in the official timeline yesterday: it says there that the orcs have stopped worshipping dragons when they made that rebellion against humans! What are we going to do with that? Of course, we could just say that the Falcon emperor made that up to raise the crusaders' morale, but I don't know if that's such a good idea...
Did we really swap places between the wyverns and shamans? I didn't notice that... Well, there really isn't much difference.
By the way, should I make the town history like a timeline or like an ordinary text?
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 05, 2006 10:54 PM |
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Ok, I understand the workings of Spirit Call now, I'll make some changes to the Shaman descriptions when I will created the combined post. I would also agree the switch between Bonelittered Canyon and Forbidden Canyon.
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Wait wait wait, I'm confused. What does having to be shooters do with the Shaman's melee combat ability? I still want them to punch the crap out of their enemies at melee and shoot some weird magic bolt or something at range.
I'll explain my point of view on this. In my opinion, Orcs have acces to magic, but are not as good with it the other races, making the magic chaotic and erratic in behavior(Or at least more then usual). If that would be the case, it would be logical for the Orcs to need a certain item to channel the magic into before releasing it;(Still with me on this ?) and it would be less logical for the Orcs to be able to summon the magic energy directly into their hands. If an Orcish Shamam had such an item (staff, wand, magical weapon or anything else) it would be illogical to not use such an item to extend his physical strenght if he would be attacked, like using your fists when you have a knife in your other hand. That's why it seems weird to me, to have the Shaman use his fists. It's like using your hand to hammer in a nail, when you have a hammer lying on the bench next to you.
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As far as no orc mating with a goblin, come on now. ive seen HUMANS in real life going out with other "humans" who look like creatures from the black lagoon. and an orc who aint all that in orc society is definetely gonna look for punani else where, ie goblins. im being realistic is all.
People dating realy ugly people still isn't crossbreeding. While I would agree that if an Orc would sink so low as to seek that sort of pleasures at the Goblins, it still couldn't create any sort of offspring. You don't create Minotaurs by having humans mating with cows, or Griffins by having lions mate with eagles. I would agree that you are realistic, up to the point, that a mating would create living offspring. The Wizards on the other hand
have proved that it is possible to create other lifeforms by mutating Goblins, that is the way they created Gremlins. Still it does not seem that we are going to agree on this if we continue this way. I suggest we let Baklava decide on this.
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And I found something strange in the official timeline yesterday: it says there that the orcs have stopped worshipping dragons when they made that rebellion against humans! What are we going to do with that? Of course, we could just say that the Falcon emperor made that up to raise the crusaders' morale, but I don't know if that's such a good idea...
By the way, should I make the town history like a timeline or like an ordinary text?
While you're suggestion of making it a lie to boost the crusaders morale is a very plausible explaination and a very useable on to. We could also say that the Dragon the Orcs worship, has prooved himself to the Orcs, to be worth their worship. Making it a two-way deal, the Dragon receives worshippers and a people to use in his Grand Schemes, the Orcs recieve a Dragon patron and are given the use of part of his magic in return.
I would say we make the history a timeline and make the town description a very detailed plain text.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted August 06, 2006 06:19 PM |
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T-rex?  Dude, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 06, 2006 08:23 PM |
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Goblins - Hobgoblins
Berserkers - Berserker veterans
Wolf marauders - Wolf ravagers
Wyverns - Quartzhide wyverns
Shamans - Elder shamans
Trolls - Battle trolls
Behemoths - Dire behemoths
Thanks very much, as now I've finished my own creatures I can do these. Unfortunately I'm on holiday for two weeks from tomorrow, so this'll have to wait! Sorry! I'll look forward to doing it when I come back 
By the way, I agree that Wyvern and Shaman should be swapped, in fact putting Wyverns at level 6, Trolls at 5 and Shamans at 4 would be my ultimate choice (I had Wyvern as level 7 in my castle, albeit with a rider  )
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted August 07, 2006 12:36 PM |
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OK, swap wyverns and shamans, but I don't know if the trolls should be level 5. Anyway, I've finished the stronghold timeline, tell me if there's something about it you don't like. I took the liberty of putting in a bonus character we all know and love.
THE STONGHOLD TIMELINE
330. YSD – The first lunar eclipse and demon invasion in history. Unprepared mortal armies are vastly outnumbered by the ravaging demon hordes and the human and elven lords are forced to seek help from the wizards. As a response, the mages alter some demon blood and inject it to human slaves and prisoners, causing horrible mutations. Those who wizards experimented upon become taller and stronger through much pain and suffering. Their faces deform and their skin starts burning and falling off. Seeing that, the wizards inoculate a special, altered form of strengthening pigment into these mutants. Since that was an alchemic mix of reptile skin and poison antidotes, the newly regenerated skin of the crcs, as the wizards called these abominations, becomes green.
As the orcs had demon blood in them, they were eager to fight, especially when the wizards promised them freedom after that. The berserking orc masses played a desicive role in destroying the demon armies, but seeing their destructive nature, the mages and the Falcon people decide it would be better to keep them in their armies, rather than granting them their freedom. This causes much unrest among the orc troops. Many orcs vow to one day earn their promised liberty, by any means possible.
467. YSD – The orc elders in the Seven Cities finally launch a full-scale revolution against their human opressors. Noticing that, the orcs stationed in the Haven lands do the same. The Falcon emperor sees this simply as a local rebellion and sends a little forces to deal with the unsatisfied orcs.
469. YSD – After the emperor’s expeditionary force has been completely defeated and almost annihilated by the rampaging orc rebels, he saw that he must send his entire battalions to destroy this threat. As the orcs rejected all known dragons, the emperor called the anti-rebel troops – crusaders. Henceforth, the Orc crusades have been formally launched.
470. – 502. YSD – The crusader forces fight brutally against the orc rebels. Those who made a revolution in the Seven Cities join forces with those from Haven to create a massive orc liberation army. However, outnumbered by the better-equipped human soldiers and wizards, they are forced to retreat. Some pull back to the vast southern deserts, in hope that the crusaders will not go after them, because of fear of thirst and hunger. Only a few of them survived until today because of the harsh desert conditions. Others decide to travel through the largely unexplored north-eastern steppes, hunting for their food and constantly battling the native barbarian tribes. But a great majority of tribes went east, towards the Barrier Islands. Despite the warnings of the wizards, human armies start following them, determined to annihilate all of the eastern orc refugees.
502. – 504. YSD – As the orc rebels reached the eastern coasts, they have started building massive transport ships and moving towards the off-coast archipelago. It is there that they have founded their first cities, towns and villages. But a few months later, the humans summoned their own powerful fleet and boarded their troops inside them, ready for battle. The unknowing orcs could not win a battle over the Falcon’s army, neither at sea nor at firm ground. Fortunately for them, a great storm shook the seas when the human troops were supposed to disembark on the Barrier Islands. The raging winds summoned massive waves which crushed the empire’s ships as a titan would crush a zombie. In a couple of hours, the once-mighty Falcon’s fleet was no more. Seeing this, the emperor calls of the attack, believing only a dragon god could do that to his forces. With that event, the Orc Crusades were finished.
505. YSD – The orcs who found out what happened also realised a dragon god helped them. Qalthor, the dragon of fire and warfare, presented himself to the burgeoning tribes. He took the orcs under his protection and taught them how to subjugate lesser races around them. He also showed some of them how to communicate with their ancestors and wield different spells. Determined to make them one of the major races, he shared with them his knowledge of warfare and weapon making, and all he asked in return was for them to worship him.
512. – 520. YSD – The Shaman Council is formed. The most powerful of shamans join it and, through the guidance of Qalthor, proclaim themselves rulers of all orc states and tribes, in order to unite them.
552. YSD – Orcs made first contact with the goblins. Abandoned by all dragons and weak on their own, the goblins are quickly subjugated under the orc banner. Smarter ones become good soldiers, some even heroes of the orc society. But the most of them become little more than ordinary slaves, due to their simple-mindedness.
586. YSD – Wild packs of wolves are noticed around the isles. Orcs train more beastmasters and finally perfect the skill of wolf riding.
612. YSD – Ragdor, a young and strong orc warlord, tries to seize the throne for himself. He gathers his followers and marches towards the Shaman Council’s headquarters. After a lengthy struggle, he is defeated and publicly fed to the wolves in the arena of the orc capital, Garthanna.
638. – 642. YSD – Orc scouts encounter wyverns on an island of the Barrier archipelago. Through much effort and a large cost in lives, some wyverns are brought to Garthanna to be studied. In 641. YSD the orcs have managed to gather some vital information about how to more quickly tame these beasts and in 642. YSD the wyverns have become regular troops in the orc armies.
734. – 748. YSD – Trolls come out of the deep and seemingly abandoned caves on the Ulnarok island (home of the orc capital) and start attacking orc cities in the vicinity. Threatened greatly by these beasts, the Shaman Council calls upon Qalthor to show himself once again and repel the ravaging trolls. It is said in an ancient shamanic tome of orc history that “the great lord Qalthor, master and guardian of our people, did not show his back to us, and instead, by combining strength of stones with the ferocity of wolves, created our living and ever-lasting protectors, the behemoths.” With behemoths by their side, the orcs easily defeat the trolls. Some even willingly offer to join them in their ranks and the orcs accept, thus gaining not one, but two more mighty units for their lands. And so began the modern ages for the orc lands.
749. – 862. YSD – During this time, while other races waged many wars and battles, the orcs were busy rebuilding their towns ruined by the trolls. However, as their islands held limited ammounts of resources, they realised that they will soon run out of building materials. Henceforth, the Shaman Council decides that their people must return to the continent it was banished from, and start making colonies, taking what’s rightfully theirs. An experienced warlord named Galathern is chosen to do this.
883. – 958. YSD – The orcs start building colonies in the mostly uninhabited eastern coasts of the continent. However, they slowly begin moving westward, towards the richer parts of land. As the orcs, because of demon blood, live longer than the humans (approximately 160 years), the colonists were still led by Galathern. However, he died in 958. YSD and his son, Thulgan, was forced to take the lead. Too young by orc standards (he was 24 then), he is granted a mentor, the only human orcs respected and trusted – Crag Hack, the most famous of all the adventurers in the modern ages. The orc colonists paid him well for teaching their new leader all he knew, and he was too greedy not to accept that offer.
969. YSD – As the orcs have already considerably moved themselves to the west, they started caring about what happened there. With a new demon incursion, their warriors were eager to enter a fight after years of peace. But Thulgan has second thoughts about whether to lead his people to war or first try to make contact with the lost orc tribes in the north-eastern steppes and southern deserts. There is also a lot of pressure on him by the Shaman Council, as well as some unloyal tribes. The orcs are divided into those who think they should fight the demons and those who believe it would be better to join them. Thulgan feels he could soon face a civil war, which would be hard to win, even with someone as Crag Hack on his side. His adventures during those harsh times are the topic of the Stronghold campaign.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 07, 2006 08:15 PM |
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I realy like the Timeline and I like how you combined the Dragon ideas. The way you inserted Crag Hack is quite briljant and you've encorporated the creatures of the Stronghold very well.
I do however have a few things that bug me a bit. The name of the Dragon of Fire, Qalthor, does not seem realy appropriate. I would suggest the names Incendros or Pyracor, which combine a name and fire.
I'm also quite puzzeled why the Dragon of Fire doesn't have an elder race to serve him. You might considder putting a bit of prehistory in the timeline, to explain that. There also is no reason stated that caused the Trollwars, that might also need explaining. Even the dimwitted Trolls have reasons for attacking other creatures. Lastly, I find it hard to believe that Orcs live aproximately 160 years. While I would agree that their Demonancestry would elongate their lifespan, 160 years seems a bit much.
On a different subject, I think it would be best if you decided the way how Hobgoblins are created, as SBlister and I will probably not reach and agreement any time soon. To summarize the ideas so far;
Hobgoblins are childeren of Orc and Goblinparents (SBlister).
Hobgoblins are mutated Goblins, who were forced to drink a magic bloodpotion (War-overlord).
Hobgoblins are Goblins who got an addition to their name, to show their higher status(War-overlord's original idea).
Behemoth
The gargantuan Behemoths are a vicious, raging, canivorous breed of creatures and were orginialy created by the Dragon-patron of the Orcs during the Trollwars. Being created for the Orcs, the Behemoths are verry protective of their Orc overseers, making them extremely usefull in the Orcish war-effort. The Behemoths match most Dragons in size and are equipped with enormous, razorsharp claws. These claws, in combination with their inbelievable strenght, are capale of tearing through any known armour or hide. Behemoths usualy build their lairs in canyons, where they make a nest of bones. Behemoths need large amounts of meat every day and will eat anything they can kill. Wild Behemoths are even known to prey on the mortal Dragons. Behemoths usualy have dark grey fur, although the vecinity of their huge maw is mostly red of hardened blood.
Dire Behemoths
As Behemoths get older, their fur slowly turns pitch black. These older Behemoths have more controll of their unnatural rage and can swing from relativly docile to berserk in a matter of seconds. Because these Dire Behemoths have this mental controll, they allow the Orcs to fit them with armourplating. These massive slabs of metal are littered with large metal spikes, giving the Dire Behemoths an artificial spiked carpace. Many of the enemies of the Orcs have found themselves impaled on the spikes of a Dire Behemoth's armour.
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