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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted July 11, 2006 12:23 PM |
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Heavan superiority ?!
I played heroes 3 alot, and the transition to heroes 5 seems to be really easy. After playing not too many heroes 5 games, i think heaven has the upper hand. I played with all the towns, but heaven seems to have a little edge.
Why ?!
imho - by far the best troops, and very good heroes ( maybe best heroes)
Troops :
Peasant - good for income .. and trainging into archer
Conscript - sometimes you might go for this one ... it's not that bad and it comes in huge numbers
Archer - upgrade to marksmen 
Marksmen - best lvl2 in the game(2-8 dmg is huge), bless them with you hero or inquisitor and they will deal more damage than the magi (7-7) which are lvl 4, not to mention their numbers !!!
Footman - good anti shooter, best to upgrade to squire
Squire - best lvl 3... they can protect almost all you army from ranged attacks (50%) with their shields ... they are not great on the offense but they make up for that with their huge defensive bonus
Griffin - up to imperial
Imperial Griffin - One of the best lvl 4 units, maybe the best. Battle Dive , big damage, unlimited retaliations .
Priest - up to Inquisitor
Inquisitor - Low on damage, but the hit points are huge for a ranged unit... Also the spells are not bad at all. Split them into two groups, one for shooting and one (small stack of 1 inquisitor) for casting spells.
Cavalier/Paladin - Best lvl 6 ... Jousting is just great
Angel - Expensive, but good
Archangel - One of the most powerfull creatures in the game, and ressurection really helps... Still expensive though
You can see that castle has top creatures almost at any lvl.
The heroes: Knights
They get Attack & Defense mostly. That is great beacause this enhances your troops, which are already very strong
Get them the folowing skills :
Logistics
Attack (with battle frenzy and/or archery)
Defense (vitality is a must)
Light Magic (mass righteous might, endurance, haste , divine strength and cleansing, deflect missile are great spells... get the abilities for the ones you get in you mage guild)
free spot for luck or leadership,maybe even sorcery... whatever you wish for
You should also get benediction ... another mass spell
Also dont forget that mass spells only you half of your initiative, so you will be casting twice as often as your opponent, unless he is casting mass spells also. And dont forget with light magic you can also get ressurection !!!
so how can you counter a very powerfull army with plenty of mass spells on?
with another heaven 
I am thinking that maybe the empowered spells of the dungeon could do something... especially a empowered meteor shower... but even then you can place your troops in a different way , knowing that dungeon is all about spells, and overwhelm them with the might of your troops (the extra attack and defense will be important here)
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SuperDave9x19
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 01:48 PM |
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I just started my first Haven FFA. I dislike the EARLY heavy ore dependancy and I dislike the hero's starting skills. I may learn to like them more tho. still early in game.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 01:56 PM |
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Haven is the only Might faction at the moment. So, since no one can really rival the Haven in might, it must be done by magic. Dark Magic here is a real killer, especially a spell called Frenzy. Mass Confusion and Suffering also hurts, especially if a Knight just casted Righterous Might. Oh, Blind and Puppet Master have their merits too. Beware of Cleansing and time your spells right.
Destructive Magic, Warlocks can do massive damage, that can really turn the tides. For other factions Master of Fire works wonders against Haven!
Summoning is a little less effective. Arcane Armor & Summon Phoenix might work too slowly to stop the massacre. Same with Summon Elementals, Fire wall has its tactical uses. Phantom Forces is a pain for Haven. They have no creatures that can do area damage or offensive spellcasters. A Haven hero can have a destructive spell though, which counters this relatively easily (unless you are Inferno )
Light Magic brings your creatures quickly to the same stats as Haven rivals. If Knight is a Light Magic caster (very likely) then you are in trouble. With Sorcery and Cleansing you can prevail.
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted July 11, 2006 02:15 PM |
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Quote:
Haven is the only Might faction at the moment. So, since no one can really rival the Haven in might, it must be done by magic. Dark Magic here is a real killer, especially a spell called Frenzy. Mass Confusion and Suffering also hurts, especially if a Knight just casted Righterous Might. Oh, Blind and Puppet Master have their merits too. Beware of Cleansing and time your spells right.
Destructive Magic, Warlocks can do massive damage, that can really turn the tides. For other factions Master of Fire works wonders against Haven!
Summoning is a little less effective. Arcane Armor & Summon Phoenix might work too slowly to stop the massacre. Same with Summon Elementals, Fire wall has its tactical uses. Phantom Forces is a pain for Haven. They have no creatures that can do area damage or offensive spellcasters. A Haven hero can have a destructive spell though, which counters this relatively easily (unless you are Inferno )
Light Magic brings your creatures quickly to the same stats as Haven rivals. If Knight is a Light Magic caster (very likely) then you are in trouble. With Sorcery and Cleansing you can prevail.
spells like Blind, Puppet Master, and Frenzy can be countered easily by cleansing ... and mass cleansing only wastes half of your initiative, so you can cast it faster than your opponent casts his bad spells ...
phantom forces --> stone spikes  , or sometimes even the scatter shot from the archer(you forgot this one ),just by splitting one archer from the stack of marksmen , or you could simply cast the mass righteous might , benediction, haste , endurance combo and kill the opponent even if the phatoms are around because you have huge stats compared to his(after those spells )
Warlocks might be a problem, but i think the damage of destructive spells is a little low... and if the game advances very much you wont even notice 1500 dmg ...
Summoning is no match for the power of the heaven ... maybe only if you have summon fire always(with the 40% procent bonus)... a phoenix will always die very swift to the might of the paladins, and the armor will be broken easily also
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 03:05 PM |
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inferno will wash away haven in earlygame. Check my post in the inferno tactics topic. Trust me
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted July 11, 2006 03:39 PM |
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Quote:
inferno will wash away haven in earlygame. Check my post in the inferno tactics topic. Trust me
Let's take Deleb out of the equation ... Inferno has a very poor start! No problem for heavan to totally crush the inferno.
Even with Deleb things are not that easy for inferno... Heavan has a fairly good start also with Dougal, and with some sacrifices it can reach the same level of getting experience of the inferno, and in the end-game the paladins, marksem,griffins, angels will be very tought to match with the inferno low-hitpoints troops ...
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 04:15 PM |
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I will quote myself:
Quote:
With deleb I rush straight to nightmares and in the beginning of second week(!), having 6 horses, tent skill and ballista skill, I can kill 20+ inquisitors (!)
with NO LOSES (!!!). Can you do it with 100+ Skellie archers and a tent? no. can you do it with animate dead? NO. I think no other faction can do it. And nobody whines about inferno. Weird. Despite their obvious early, mid AND endgame superiority @_o
Oh, maybe because ppl don't know how to play them yet. Well, test it - you will be amazed by the infernal power. Take exp from chests, get expert warmachines, get ballista&tent skills ASAP and you can kill everything on the map from levels 1-5 not named druids, elder druids and archmages. (well, unicorns can be a threat too )
Read it and don't speak snow, Towerlord Inferno has the best start in the game. Regards.
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted July 11, 2006 04:20 PM |
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Then I will quote myself too
Quote:
Let's take Deleb out of the equation ... Inferno has a very poor start! No problem for heavan to totally crush the inferno.
I asked you to take Deleb out of this. Without him inferno has the worst start, having no archer and very weak melee fighters at start.
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Klaital
Known Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 04:29 PM |
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Even without Deleb you don't take any casualities in the early game, just learn to use gating and have the gated stacks absorb the retaliations.
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ZeroXcuses
Known Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 04:32 PM |
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Well, you can't take Deleb out of the equation because every Inferno player who knows what's good for them will pick him because he wins.
Anyway, Inferno and Sylvan are might castles. Who is this guy that says Haven is the "only" might castle? Nival split might & magic into a 1:1 ratio.
Anyway, Haven has some very powerful units, but the weakness of their lv 1 and lv 3 units are glaring. Preists/Inquisitors are better casters than they are attackers, but they are wickedly hardy and expensive. Paladins and Marksmen are beastly, and Battle Griffons are the bane of enemy shooters. Archangels can cast resurrect better than most heroes can (but only one cast).
But that does not make them 'superior.' Their stats favor defense, which wouldn't be a problem, but they don't have offensive units to offset the stat discrepancy like Sylvan does with their ranged assault..and dragon. I can safely say that Haven is the only castle in the game where if you upgrade all your units, not one can attack more than one creature at a time (Archers can, but they're not Marksmen). Attacking multiple creatures simultaneously SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LIGHTLY, and it is a glaring weakness of Haven as well.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 04:32 PM |
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Yes, but you wrote later:
Quote:
Even with Deleb things are not that easy for inferno... Heavan has a fairly good start also with Dougal, and with some sacrifices it can reach the same level of getting experience of the inferno, and in the end-game the paladins, marksem,griffins, angels will be very tought to match with the inferno low-hitpoints troops ...
to be exact
And why not to take the best hero? 
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted July 11, 2006 04:33 PM |
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without deleb , ranged units , no retaliation units and spellcasters become a nightmare for inferno... and even some pure melee units are tough to handle ... sure you can gate near the ranged , but until the creatures actually gate you'll have 0 familiars left
without deleb it's a poor start, compared to the other towns
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 04:36 PM |
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Quote:
Well, you can't take Deleb out of the equation because every Inferno player who knows what's good for them will pick him because he wins.
Anyway, Inferno and Sylvan are might castles. Who is this guy that says Haven is the "only" might castle? Nival split might & magic into a 1:1 ratio.
Anyway, Haven has some very powerful units, but the weakness of their lv 1 and lv 3 units are glaring. Preists/Inquisitors are better casters than they are attackers, but they are wickedly hardy and expensive. Paladins and Marksmen are beastly, and Battle Griffons are the bane of enemy shooters. Archangels can cast resurrect better than most heroes can (but only one cast).
Haven is the only one Getting primarily Attack and Defence when leveling up. Inferno gets Attack & Knowledge, Sylvan Defence & Knowledge. Haven is the only truely might oriented, as they get nearly no attributes to the Magic section (spellpower & knowledge). I also do consider Inferno and Sylvan might oriented, but Haven, as I explained, takes it to the extreme.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 04:37 PM |
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oh well, without deleb you just lose lose imps and (worthless) demons, who cares for them? And once nightmares appear, it's pretty much similiar to deleb's rampage.
The worst start (IMO) goes to sylvan, academy coming next. Haven is decent, Dungeon is good, Necro is better, inferno is best (taking the best earlygame strategy into consideration)
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted July 11, 2006 04:38 PM |
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Quote:
Yes, but you wrote later:
Quote:
Even with Deleb things are not that easy for inferno... Heavan has a fairly good start also with Dougal, and with some sacrifices it can reach the same level of getting experience of the inferno, and in the end-game the paladins, marksem,griffins, angels will be very tought to match with the inferno low-hitpoints troops ...
to be exact
And why not to take the best hero?
dont you agree that with Dougal, heaven can be pretty fast itself ?! you'll have ~40 de archers , and you can kill any lvl 1,2 first week ... after that you can buy some real troops and get some magic maybe and with some good tactics you can keep up with deleb with some sacrifices
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NuWorld
Hired Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 04:42 PM |
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But don't forget the high initiative of Inferno troops, with Agrael or not. If placed wrongly, your griffins will be gone if nightmares can reach them, cerberi can reach you early, even if they gate on the first move. With powerfull gating you may encounter 80% bigger army, your archers will be blocked with gated monsters and pummeled by succubi and pit lord's meteors. Your offense will be crippled while trying to get rid of gated creatures. IMHO, paladins alone cannot give you the early edge + your mana pool will probably be drained as soon as the battle begins. And I prefer starting skills of Inferno heroes over Haven ones.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 04:42 PM |
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I play both factions and distinguishing better isn't hard for me. Try killing 25 inquisitors with 50 archers, have fun
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SuperDave9x19
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 04:49 PM |
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i thought it was the Haven faction.
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted July 11, 2006 04:50 PM |
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Quote:
But don't forget the high initiative of Inferno troops, with Agrael or not. If placed wrongly, your griffins will be gone if nightmares can reach them, cerberi can reach you early, even if they gate on the first move. With powerfull gating you may encounter 80% bigger army, your archers will be blocked with gated monsters and pummeled by succubi and pit lord's meteors. Your offense will be crippled while trying to get rid of gated creatures. IMHO, paladins alone cannot give you the early edge + your mana pool will probably be drained as soon as the battle begins. And I prefer starting skills of Inferno heroes over Haven ones.
Pit Lords are one of the worst lvl 6 , and they will cast Shower only once ... and that wont be very powerfull shower ... just checkout the formula :
15 x spellpower
and spell power = 2+(0.3 * no creatures)
10 pitlords meteor shower = 15 x (2+3) = 75 !!! That's very small damage
sucubbi will be destroyed very fast by the marksmen ( which are protected by the shields of the Squires (%50 reduction) )
Also lets not forget the Imperial Griffins and the inquisitors
Inferno's ranged is not good at all compared to heaven ...
And there is also training ... which can get you a nice boost of archers from paesants
---> Edit
all this talk brings me a great appetite for a heroes online ... i wish i could play it @ work
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 11, 2006 04:59 PM |
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that is pure theory
The fact is that the fireball ballista can kill like 60 marksmen per turn on lvl 15 (more with luck). With a quick rush, you won't even reach angels. sorry
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