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Dungeonian
Adventuring Hero
Supreme matriarch
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posted November 29, 2006 01:35 AM |
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The answer of this is simple : Victors writh the history and no one wants being shawn as evil , even if he/she is 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 29, 2006 12:57 PM |
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because in most of the games evil is described as "those idiots who want to destroy the world". It's so stupid.. why on earth an evil faction would like to destroy the world? It would destroy THEM aswell..
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted November 29, 2006 04:13 PM |
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It's usually not that simple. Real evil will always have a purpose and that purpose is always destructive. Usually the only people who want to destroy the world are demons and they that's because they want to bring their world to ours (not destructive for them). Most other evils just want to rule the world, not destroy it. Evil is tricky, based in deception seeking to distort the Truth and mar what is good and right. That is why I play good factions, even when it meant getting raked in Heroes II by Dragongeddon. Long live the Haven
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 29, 2006 05:21 PM |
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You take it a little too seriously The path to the dark side is quicker,easier,more seductive!I can't say I don't feel it luring me occasionally
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted November 29, 2006 05:41 PM |
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We're talking about the (fantasy) fate of the world here, that's not something to be taken lightly. The "quick and easy" path is the path that leads to destruction. If the short term seduction distracts you from the long term devestation that speaks to your (fantasy) character. As for me and my kingdom, we will follow the Light, even when its not fashionable.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 29, 2006 06:46 PM |
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Quote:
You take it a little too seriously The path to the dark side is quicker,easier,more seductive!I can't say I don't feel it luring me occasionally
In fantasy world, the only good nature is chaotic evil nature.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 29, 2006 07:37 PM |
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Edited by Geny at 19:38, 29 Nov 2006.
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All that talk about good and evil reminds Heroes II where you could switch sides in the middle of a campaign.
I think it would be really cool (in any strategy game, not just Heroes) if after playing with all the different factions you would be given a choice with which one of them you want to finish the game.
Of course it means more work for the developers because it means much more levels and endings, but it still would be a great feature.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 29, 2006 07:39 PM |
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Quote:
We're talking about the (fantasy) fate of the world here, that's not something to be taken lightly. The "quick and easy" path is the path that leads to destruction. If the short term seduction distracts you from the long term devestation that speaks to your (fantasy) character. As for me and my kingdom, we will follow the Light, even when its not fashionable.
It was just a quote from star wars! Serious good and evil characters usually are committed to their cause,usually working for it many years.There is sometimes the classic change of heart when something important happens and their core philosophy may change.Still the main idea is that great individuals have a willpower so great and they maintain their views unswerved which can apply both to paladins and high ranking villains.
If you had to guess what is my alignment in d&d terms?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted November 29, 2006 08:01 PM |
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If you had to guess what is my alignment in d&d terms?
Probably Neutral, Neutral. I see you as playing whatever is most fun without much regard to whether it is good or evil. You will probably do what is convient and not try too hard to be either intentionally cruel or intentially helpful. In most situations this will play out as good because most games favor good so it typically has the most benefits. Wow I sound a lot like a fortune cookie. Maybe I should start writing as an astologer.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted November 29, 2006 08:03 PM |
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I love the idea of choosing the ending based on your decisions to be either good or evil. It is only when we have a chose to be evil that we can truely say we are good (or vice versa for you 's).
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 29, 2006 08:11 PM |
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isn't it called "true neutral"?
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted November 29, 2006 08:14 PM |
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Guys it's a game... there is no good , and no evil ... I like "the goods" and "the evils" also , and the most evil for me are neutral crossbowmen, druids , archmages !
I really enjoy the "mighty" power of haven troops, the hordes of undead, the speedy elves, the incredible defensive of the fortress, the destructive power of the dungeon hero , the all so magic town of academy and the fast melee force of the inferno ... some more , some less , but they all are good in my oppinion cause they all bring fun to the game !
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 29, 2006 08:21 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 20:22, 29 Nov 2006.
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@Istari
Me too.
No you got my alignment wrong!I let people express their opinions and may like them more if they are different from me.In a conversation it's not easy to judge unless you see a strong reaction about something,you have to spend some time with someone to find out.
I like to think myself more neutral good but my choices prove me wrong.It's not just that I shifted from NG to LG in neverwinter nights 2 by acting naturally.It is things in my life(and some d&d alignment tests  ) that made me wonder where I fall in between them and I do have some lawful tendencies.Distressing as I don't really want this type of commitment and want to live my life,maybe act more neutral towards some people because I don't think they deserve more yet I have these **** moral obligations! I can't help it!And yet I believe that even ideals and laws should be bent in some situations as they cannot encompass all there is.At least being lawful good doesn't mean you need to act like a paladin
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted November 29, 2006 08:21 PM |
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Alignment is central to a D&D character's personality. D&D uses two measures to determine a specific character's ethical and moral attitudes and behavior.
The moral axis has three positions: good, neutral and evil. Good characters generally care about the welfare of others. Neutral people generally care about their own welfare. Evil people generally seek to harm the others' welfare.
The ethical axis has three positions as well: lawful, neutral, and chaotic. Lawful people generally follow the social rules as they understand them. Neutral people follow those rules find convenient or obviously necessary. And chaotic people seek to upset the social order and either institute change, or simply create anarchy.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted November 30, 2006 08:24 PM |
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Quote:
Guys it's a game... there is no good , and no evil ... I like "the goods" and "the evils" also , and the most evil for me are neutral crossbowmen, druids , archmages !
I really enjoy the "mighty" power of haven troops, the hordes of undead, the speedy elves, the incredible defensive of the fortress, the destructive power of the dungeon hero , the all so magic town of academy and the fast melee force of the inferno ... some more , some less , but they all are good in my oppinion cause they all bring fun to the game !
I'm glad that you enjoy the game at that level. But its not just about stacks of statistics for me. There is a reason for the theme of alignments and the story that goes along with the game. For me playing the story and its associated alignments adds depth to the game. A big part of which groups I enjoy and which groups I don't enjoy is based on alignment and story, not power and domination. A truely great player can take any group that he enjoys and use them powerfully. Since I'm not picking my group on power, I pick by alignment and story. What's the point of winning with a group that I do not want to see win? Long live the Haven!
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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vhilhu
Famous Hero
We are NOT schysophren
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posted November 30, 2006 08:45 PM |
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Quote:
A truely great player can take any group that he enjoys and use them powerfully.
only a hacker can play eg Inferno powerfully against Haven on a gold-rich map against an opponent who has any experience on using Haven. a game should be that equal, but h5 isnt. yet. maybe theyll balance it more. let us hope.
Quote:
Since I'm not picking my group on power, I pick by alignment and story. What's the point of winning with a group that I do not want to see win? Long live the Haven!
me too. but experience shows its not always that good idea.
in Battle for Wesnoth, i on my first try at the game took Saurians against AI in a game ON SWAMP TERRAIN(Saurians rule on swamp). i won and thought wow, im a n00b at this and still won, Saurians must be a great race.
then i tried Saurians in a multiplayer game and lol it was fun to see i couldnt kill a single enemy unit while i lost tens of saurians.
if you choose a faction, in h5, BfW or anywhere else, and choose your old favorite faction instead of a faction that is good at this kind of map, you get pawned. thats one thing i like more about single player.
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Two little Gnoll boys sitting in the sun;
One got frizzled up and then there was one.
One little Gnoll boy left all alone;
He went and hung himself and then there were none.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 30, 2006 08:50 PM |
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Why Inferno? It's the wrong pick. Inferno in fact CAN defeat haven on a gold-rich map. There are towns that can't, though: necropolis, sylvan, academy (yes, whatever 86wyp and his heroic-level-week4-titans+arties+level5 guild says O_o).
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vhilhu
Famous Hero
We are NOT schysophren
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posted November 30, 2006 09:08 PM |
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i wanted to say academy, but then i anticipated chinese viruses on my mail 
so i changed it to the next town coming to my mind.
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Two little Gnoll boys sitting in the sun;
One got frizzled up and then there was one.
One little Gnoll boy left all alone;
He went and hung himself and then there were none.
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted November 30, 2006 09:18 PM |
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So far I have read convincing arguements for just about every faction being overpowered. What people really mean when they say a faction is overpowered is that they probably don't use it and haven't figured out how to beat it. It's a great built in excuse for losing. Even most of the discussion on Haven superiority came from Towerlord who was using Haven almost exclusively on Sub. Treasures. I know that every faction isn't exactly even but it is the most even as Heroes has ever been (I've played since Heroes II). It is finally even enough that a good player can win with any faction. There is no unbeatable faction.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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vhilhu
Famous Hero
We are NOT schysophren
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posted November 30, 2006 09:25 PM |
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Quote:
There is no unbeatable faction.
There is no spoon.
anyway, no faction is unbeatable, on extremly ress-poor map sylvan can beat haven, what im saying is that
on a GOLD RICH map, haven rules.
on a BIG map, necropolis rules.
but usually haven rules more if the map is both rich and big.
on small and not very rich maps, the other factions come in. but only then.
____________
Two little Gnoll boys sitting in the sun;
One got frizzled up and then there was one.
One little Gnoll boy left all alone;
He went and hung himself and then there were none.
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