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| Thread: Complete ideas for expansions!!! Really good quality! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · NEXT» |
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 09, 2006 05:35 PM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 19:37, 06 Oct 2006.
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Complete ideas for expansions!!! Really good quality!
WARNING! These ideas of mine will altogether have more than 60 pages in MS Word written in Times new roman, size 12. (this is really no joke)
So, this is a mail about my whole ideas. It isnt according to any myth of creation or something like that, it is pure fantasy. Just the stuff I would like to see in Heroes and I think would fit in there. And if Nival makes a game with all these features...
I am starting this thread a bit earlier, its because it my whole idea isnt complete and I want to send it in parts, so editing them wont be so difficult.
In this thread we will discuss 8 topics:
1. Alternative creature system
2. New and changed neutral creatures
3. New spells and changes to magic system
4. Absolutely new features (also some old)
5. Some other changes (more abilities, graphics)
6. Changes to skill system
7. New factions (about 14 new towns, including heroes, racial skills, creatures...)
8. New hero specialisation
Legend:
* – my own original idea
+ – not my own idea
Note: If you:
like these ideas,
have some ideas that could improve these,
have an idea where i can find some more inspiration,
dont understand something,
want to discuss more details (unit stats, racial skills...),
want to see some artwork about this (units, heroes, towns...),
Responses are welcome!!!
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 09, 2006 05:48 PM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 21:11, 23 Sep 2006.
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So, I will start:
1. First of all, there should be an alternative creature production system(+). Here are the alternative creatures I think should be in the original towns:
Haven:
Peasant
Archer
Squire, alt Pikeman(+)
Griffin, alt Crusader(+)
Priest
Calvary, alt Sky champion(*/+)
Angel
Pikeman, upg Halberdier – a typical Haven unit from previous games. Its long pike allows him to attack enemies without being retaliated. If he smashes his enemy with his halberd he can stun his enemies. Even if he cannot attack from a safe distance the enemy wont retaliate.
Specials:
-long weapon – like in homm4
shield bash (upg)
-defensive stance (upg) – if set to defense, will counter attack first when attacked
Swordsman, upg Crusader – another typical Haven unit from previous games. With his large sword he can attack several enemies at once. Upgraded has too much armor to do such trick. But this armor gives him holy protection. Not as quick as griffin, but has more defense and more trciks. Good against unholy army.
Specials:
-sword heap (ONLY SWORSMAN) – just like spray attack, attacks three squares in front of himself, the one currently aimed will retaliate (like in war dance combo)
-double attack (upg)
-shield bash (upg)
-holy protection (upg) – gets attack and defense bonus when fighting undead or demonic units
Griffin rider, upg Sky champion – a champion riding on a griffin. The griffins acceleration gives the rider a better hit chance. Must be very brave to fly with a griffin to the sky and do a battle dive!
Specials:
-flying, large creature
-rider charge
-battle dive (upg)
-bravery
Inferno:
Imp
Demon, alt Gog(+)
Cerbeus
Succubus, alt Incubus(+)
Nightmare, alt Efreet(+)
Pit lord
Devil
Gog, upg Magog – a good old Inferno unit from homm3. The look should be a bit changed, not like in homm3. One the only two shooters in inferno.
Specials:
-ranged, demonic
-area attack (upg) – attacks area 3x3 squares big
Incubus, upg Incubus duce – some kind of demonic sorcerer. Reeealy evil. Has some good tricks.
Specials:
demonic
-strike and return
-teleportation (upg)
-no enemy retaliation (upg)
-caster:
*confusion (upg)
*lava geyser (see later new spells)
*slow
*reinforcements gate (upg)
Efreet, upg Efreet sultan – a good old Inferno unit from previous games. A summoning of Demon lords, a demonic slave – like Djinns. Its got lot more specials than nightmare, but its slower and costs more. Guess what it is summoned of....
Specials:
-flying, large creature, demonic, elemetal (because it is summoned of fire)
-fire attack – its attack does additional fire damage
-explosion (upg) – like horned demons
-fire shield – just like in previous games
-fire resistance – unit is resistant to all fire based spells and attacks
Necropolis:
Skeleton
Zombie, alt Ghoul(+)
Ghost, alt Akolyte(*/+)
Vampire
Lich
Wight, alt Death knight(+)
Dragon
Ghoul, upg Ghast – a skeleton-zombie abomination. Enemies fear it. Faster than zombie, but not so endurable.
Specials:
undead
-no enemy retaliation – just too scary
-consume corpse (upg) – (activated ability) starts eating a dead stack (destroying bodies to prevent any ressurection) that was *living* before dying, to heal some HP
Acolyte, upg Necrolyte – a vampire dark priest. Can be very useful, because he plays a role of healer on battlefield. His weakness is his lack on defense, against to spectres.
Specials:
-undead, ranged
-caster:
*raise dead
*decay (upg)
*weakness
Doom knight, upg Death knight – a good old Necropolis unit from previous games shouldnt be a neutral unit!
Specials:
-undead
-large creature (upg)
-cursing attack
-deadly strike (upg) - a 25% chance, that the attack will kill exactly 25% of the targeted stack (I changed this to satisfy Alc a bit)
Academy:
Gremlin
Gargoyle, alt Nomad(+)
Golem
Mage
Djinn, alt Obelisk(+)
Rakshasa, alt Sphinx(+)
Titan
Nomad, upg Osman – a good old unit from previous games. An arabian warrior with scimitar riding a horse. Lot faster than gargoyle and got better attack.
Specials:
-large creature
-fast strike – when attacked, retaliets first, then attacked
-attacks twice (upg)
Obelisk, upg Runed obelisk – an obelisk! Another living sculpture created by wizards. A good caster and shooter with good defense and HP. Its weakness is its immobility, low number of shots and weak initiative. The only possibility to move it is teleportation. Good at melee attack!
Specials:
ranged, immobile – unit cant move on battlefield
elemental
explosive attack – attacks all adjacent enemies with magical energy
-caster:
*magical immunity
*teleportation (upg)
*levitation
*invisibility
*immortality (upg)
Sphinx, upg Gold sphinx – another living sculpture created by wizards. Not such rusher type as Rakshasa. Has also good attack. Good defense, low initiative.
Specials: large creature, flyer
-3 riddle attack (not upg) – (activated, once per combat) attacked unit has to guess a question (type of question: What day is today? What week is today (number, week of what)? How many cities has a player got...), the enemy has to pick one of three answers. When guessed wrong, Sphinx do double damage, when guess good the attack wont take place
4- riddle attack (upg) – (activated, once per combat) enemy has to pick one of 4 answers
-summon mummy (upg summons pharaoh – see neutral creatures)
Dungeon:
Scout
Blood maiden, alt Troglodyte(+)
Minotaur, alt Spider(*)
Grim rider, alt Evil eye(+)
Hydra
Witch
Dragon
Troglodyte, upg Infernal troglodyte – a good old unit from previous games. Not very better than Blood maiden, but the spiked body makes it tough aganst armies that do great damage. A more defensive type.
Specials:
-immune to blind
-spiked body (upg) – enemy attackers suffer 20% damage of the damage they did to Troglodytes in melee attacks
Spider, upg Infernal spider – a giant spider. Not very offensive, low initiative and really good ability.
Specials:
-large creature, ranged
-spider web (upg) – attacked unit loses its next turn and cant retaliate till then
-poisonous attack (only melee)
Evil eye, upg Beholder – a good old unit from previous games. Its eye beam is useful to elemental chains.
Specials:
-ranged, flying
-detection – can see invisible or hidden units (only when evil eye is on turn), and when attacks invisible unit, it becomes visible
-eye beam – attack deals additonal (random) elemental damage
no melee penalty
-hypnotize (upg) – (activated ablity, once per combat) gets enemy unit under your control for its next turn (doesnt work on creatures immune to mind related spells)
Sylvan:
Pixie
Blade dancer
Hunter, alt Tiger rider(*)
Druid, alt Sharpshooter(+)
Unicorn
Treant, alt Hill giants(*)
Dragon
Tiger rider, upg Tiger raider – an elf riding a tiger, throwing projectiles on enemies.
Specials:
-large creature, ranged
-short range – throwing large and heavy weapons doesnt allow to shoot that far as bowmen. Can shoot only on targets 5 squares away
-chain shot (upg) - the rotation of these projectiles gives them boomerang effect, that can hit also friendly creatures
Sharpshooter, upg Sniper – an elf with a really strong bow and bullseye! The best bowman overall. Has great attack, but his fatal weakness is his lack on defense.
Specials:
-ranged
-no ranged penalty – shoots sharp over anything
-aim (upg) – (activated) loses double initiative but does double damage and cant miss (incorporeal or so...)
Hill giant, upg Mountain giant – a stone giant. Something like gargantuan in homm4. Low initiative and speed, great damage, defense and HP.
Specials:
-large creature
-ranged (upg)
-no melee penalty
-area attack (upg) – throws really large rocks! affecting 3x3 sq area
-siege capable (upg)
-short range (upg)
So, I edited the specials a bit to make some creatures that seem too strong a bit limited and to satisfy some gamers that dont agree with me (Alc and so... ). Hope you like it!
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DragonLord3000
Known Hero
Romanian flamethrower
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posted September 09, 2006 06:54 PM |
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...some incredible ideas you've got!Don't realy like the new tower units except maybe for the nomad,I would like to see a photo of the incubus,or describe its appearance if you can....but all other creatures fit right in!
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hot peppers are an ilusion.they do not exist.
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DragonLord3000
Known Hero
Romanian flamethrower
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posted September 09, 2006 07:17 PM |
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Other abilities:1. torturer:when you are about to win a fight and the enemie retreats,you learn more info about his statuses...I know you have the den of thieves,but if you have expert torturer,the enemy castle(s)are revealed to you.This skill used often by demon lords and warlocks.
2. Ancients summoner:this ability i think would be good for the rangers,and barbarians....in battle,heroes units gain morale +3 when ability is expert,and gain more initiative!
3.Nature call:rangers have ability to call on nature itself for support and gain unicorns,number determined by hero level.
4.Knight's luck:hero gains reduction of troop costing by 15\20\30 per cent,more movement on grass land+intimidtating enemy hero.
Confused upon some ability for wizards but working on it.....and as for a spell,black hole seemes to be good...troops are eaten by the hole thus.......leaving the battlefield.not a whole stack!!!
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hot peppers are an ilusion.they do not exist.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 09, 2006 08:53 PM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 21:00, 09 Sep 2006.
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Thanks for your feedback and great ideas! Wait for upcoming posts.
Besides a lot of these creatures you can see in the topic of actionjack: Additional new creatures (alt creature production system).
Edit: sorry, I forgot something: I never heard of incubi before, they were actionjacks idea. But I got an imagination about them, so I will try to draw em.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 09, 2006 09:38 PM |
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Just some brief comments on creatures:
Pikeman - great, a missed troop type.
Swordsman - I don't know how you'd make these different enough from Squires, so I need pictures to be convinced here!
Griffin Rider - okay I guess, especially since there aren't many options for Haven additional creatures (unless you like the `Renegade` units, or whatever they are, that have been revealed).
Gog - there would have to be something to make Demons a viable option (maybe low growth?); do Magogs attack friendly troops like they always used to?
Incubus - great, I'm picturing him as a beefed up HoMM3 Pitlord.
Efreet - well I personally would have liked to see them in the new Dwarf town; here I'm wondering why one might choose the nightmare, especially since I don't think the Efreet's stats and speed should be that low.
Ghoul - would need bad stats.
Ak(c)olyte - seems to be too low a level for this guy, perhaps move to level 4, giving flyer + drainer vs. caster?
Death Knight - too like the Wraith? Not that this is really a problem for me - not every single choice should be between distinct creatures IMO.
Nomad - I think he should have good stats and low growth, although this might be difficult to balance.
Obelisk - okay info wise, but I just can't picture it. Images needed again I think.
Sphinx - great!
Troglodyte - good; I'm thinking lower stats, higher growth.
Spider - not for me at all.
Evil Eye - what's wrong with Evil Eye -> Beholder? Other than that, would have to be lower in stats if flying, ranged and with specials.
Tiger Rider - seems too low, although I guess growth and power could be fiddled.
Sharpshooter - hmm, not sure I'd want another archer type in the line-up, but would fit in easily; `Aim` is good.
Hill Giant - sounds too powerful for level 6, could he not be level 7? He is ranged on upgrade after all. I think this guy could be one of the worst fits.
Well I am looking forward greatly to what's coming next - it's not my idea of perfect, but there's no way that it could be - it's your ideas, after all. It makes very interesting reading!
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 09, 2006 10:08 PM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 22:11, 09 Sep 2006.
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Well, thanks again for the feedback!!! (I really love this feeling!) It seems that everyone likes the ideas, but I havent yet began with the really good stuff! I agree with everything you wrote except some:
Hill giants - I can imagine them fit really good into Sylvan. I imagine tham as treants (the beta version) with a rock body. I dont want him as a lvl 7 unit, because all the lists I have already made I was trying to make alternatives at all levels except lvl 1 and 7.
Efreet - this should be with demons. I will explain: their existance is the same way as djinns - they live as summoned servants made of fire, that Demon lords create. Besides I have already created two dwarven factions (one of chaos and one of ice mountains and order) and if you see them you will know it wont fit
Gog - I think it could be that the fire damages also demonic units (but you can still choose to recruit upg or not upg) but there could be a demon lords ability that will make demonic units absolutley immune to fire (also succubuss mistresss attack could work in this way to make it more complicated...)
Edit:
Spiders - maybe one more ability would make them more special? Think of one that would make you like them.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 10, 2006 12:58 PM |
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Yeah, this idea of alternate creatures at some levels has been discussed elsewhere, and I still think it holds merit. A few comments.
Pikeman - I would be more conventional at make this an alternative to the Peasant. It would have to be really weak, however, to not make the peasant completely obsolete - but I *hate* the peasant, and would love to see some alternative. It might actually work if the Pikeman could not be trained into Marksmen, but I can't figure out a reasonable explanation why (perhaps if they were women - Pike Maidens!?).
Swordsman - This should be an alternative to the Squire rather than the Griffin! The idea would be to have a choice between the more defensive Footman / Squire, and the more offensive Swordsman / Crusader. Also, the multi-attack thing seems a bit unlikely when you use a sword (except for Blade Dancers, but they are after all nimble elves). Perhaps wounding would be a better ability for them (target suffers bleading damage un subsequent turns unless healed).
Griffin Rider - The combination of Charge and Battle Dive is off ground - the Battle Dive is more than powerfull itself, and the choice between either Charge OR Battle Dive would be fine. I'm not sure this is the best solution - the Paladin is a very solid unit, and I doubt most players would wanna replace it. The Inquisitor, on the other hand, is controversial for his low damage. You might wanna replace his with the Zealot (I know, this is how it is in the "Red Haven" city), but a ranged unit that does more damage but lower Hit Points would make an excellent alternative.
Gog - Like GM said, should be crippled by something - low growth and HP would be reasonable, and make fireball attack optional, but also damaging to friendly units.
Incubus - Has to let go of the Vorpal Sword, as this was supposed to be one of the redeeming features of the Pit Lord, and then you can't bestow the same ability on a 4th level unit. Otherwise, this is a very relevant unit for the Inferno.
Efreet - As GM said, this would go well in the new Dwarf town, but also an excellent unit for Inferno. However, this should not replace the Nightmare, but rather the Pit Lord. The choice between a ranged but slower unit and a faster, flying unit, but with melee attack, would make sense.
Ghoul - I would rather see something like the current ghost here. Something that's slow (but not as slow as the zombie), flying and incorporeal, but with low HP, so that it's very fragile.
Ak(c)olyte - This seems to me like an unlikely choice for a level 3 unit, when the "regular" vampire is level 4. Mummy and Royal Mummy is simple, but would be obvious. Make them tough like the zombies, give them cursing ability, and make them pretty fast speeded - speed 6 or 7 - to give the Necromancer some much needed ability to come across the field.
Death Knight - A good choice, but would *of course* have to loose the current Death Touch, and get back double strike ability.
Nomad - I'm not too certain on this exact unit. The academy concists of the Wizards + their animations and creations. Therefore, the addition of other human units might be wrong. On the other hand, I like the idea of this mounted middle-eastern type unit - but pick another name than 'nomad'. Hmmm, the Immortals of Emperor Xerxes comes to my mind - but they'd have to be higher level.
Obelisk - Interesting idea, but I'm not sure it'd work. Plus *yet another* ranged unit for the Academy is too much - they already have three! I think Baselisk would have been a very obvious choice for a creature that might blend in very well with this faction - and the petrifying gaze is a nice ability to have back.
Sphinx - Obvious choice. I don't like the "riddle attacks" - they simply fall off the current game mechanics, and how will you make the AI react to this - but put in some other special, and the idea of a flyer with more HP than the Djinn (but less damage compared to level average) is sound.
Troglodyte - Possibly make it an alternative to the Assassin instead, since the Blood Furies are so great units that nobody would take them out anyway.
Spider - I love this idea. Would have to be poisenous of course. And very fast, but with only ok damage and HP. Would blend right in.
Evil Eye - upgrade should be Beholder! But a flying ranged unit with spell attacks - very nasty, very nice! Would have to have some weaknesses - low Hit Points? Would make sense, because Matriarchs have very high HP for ranged units.
Tiger Rider - Should be level 2 and not ranged (the Hunter + Druid = all powerfull). But a good fast melee unit with more Hit Points than the Sword Dancer would be excellent!
Sharpshooter - This should be level 3 instead of the Hunter! Apart from that, it's a great unit. And the potential at making more damage at long range will make him a worthy alternative to the Hunter against opponents with many ranged units (Academy, Necropolis).
Hill Giant - no no, the Hill Giant would never go with the Sylvan, Hill Giants are nasty and evil creatures, very similar to Trolls. And no more ranged attackers to the Sylvan, the combo of Hunter + Druid is all-powerfull as it is, don't make it worse! However, an offensive and fast unit would make an excellent alternative to the Treant. The Mantis was not a bad creature, and could possibly come back, even though I might prefer a walker to a flyer - but yes, a mantis might do well here.
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Well, that was my thoughts. I do like the idea of alternative units, however, as I said in the other topic. I think it's crucial, however, to keep two things in mind:
1) Will the new unit make a good alternative to the excisting in terms of ballance and abilities?
2) Will the new unit keep the ballance when considered along with the other units of this faction. Thus, it's not a good idea to add a ranged unit to a faction that already has much ranged power (Academy, Sylvan) except as an alternative to an excisting ranged unit.
However, keeping those things in mind, it's still an interesting thought, especially in the cases where you make the choice between a more offensive unit and a more deffensive one.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 10, 2006 01:14 PM |
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With alternatives it's always going to be hard to create viable choices - where either option has its advantages - and make them interesting, without introducing the possibility of breaking the line-up. (I believe HoMM4 is like this in some cases.) That is, sometimes you need a ranged vs. melee (otherwise it's "attack-based versus defence-based" etc), even if you do create interesting special abilities. Ultimately there will always be the opportunity in such a town to have `yet more` ranged power. The only way to negate this is to make the statistics worse - e.g. with the Gog and Demon (I guess specials could make up for this but it's harder to determine just how useful a special is, unlike stats, which are very objective).
Quote:
Hill giants - I can imagine them fit really good into Sylvan. I imagine tham as treants (the beta version) with a rock body. I dont want him as a lvl 7 unit, because all the lists I have already made I was trying to make alternatives at all levels except lvl 1 and 7.
For me it's not so much a problem that they don't gel with Sylvan, I just think they should be level 7. Why don't you want to provide options for 1 and 7?
Quote:
Efreet - this should be with demons. I will explain: their existance is the same way as djinns - they live as summoned servants made of fire, that Demon lords create. Besides I have already created two dwarven factions (one of chaos and one of ice mountains and order) and if you see them you will know it wont fit
Okely dokely, I look forward to seeing them and comparing them to the actual lineup we're in for.
Quote:
Gog - I think it could be that the fire damages also demonic units (but you can still choose to recruit upg or not upg) but there could be a demon lords ability that will make demonic units absolutley immune to fire (also succubuss mistresss attack could work in this way to make it more complicated...)
I think I prefer this to Alci's suggestion (except the bit about Succubi), but I'm still not convinced. If fireball attack is optional then I... wait, come to think of it, if there are a limited number of fireball attacks per battle I guess it would be fine to choose when to fire. And it could also damage everyone.
Quote:
Edit:
Spiders - maybe one more ability would make them more special? Think of one that would make you like them.
No problem with them as a troop, I just don't like things like Mantisses, Spiders and killer plants in Heroes (besides Spider is more Necropolis isn't it?).
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 10, 2006 01:28 PM |
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I think in some cases it's fine to introduce more ranged units - the Inferno, obviously, would not suffer by having more ranged power, and the same is true for the Dungeon. Towns like Academy and Sylvan, however, that already has lots of ranged power - Academy has 3 ranged units, and Sylvan has two very powerfull ranged units at mid-level - should not have more ranged power. That does not rule out the possibility of adding substiture ranged units, but I think it's necessary to make an attempt to keep some sort of balance - and I think there's lots of opportunities for alternative creatures that still keep the ballance.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 11, 2006 02:49 PM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 15:06, 11 Sep 2006.
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Thanks Alc for stopping here!
Ok, I think I have to explain my choices, because I havent picked these creatures at random, but I have been thinking a lot:
Pikeman - its not a lvl 1 unit because I cant imagine them weaker than archers (in HoMM4 it was so), its not a lvl 2 unit because i dont want to make one of the only shooters alternative so I think it could be a good lvl 3 unit. Of course weaker than footmen. And the training system would also make perfect sense (I will explain later)
Crusader - its a lvl 4 unit because lvl 3 already has an alternative and it should be a lot tougher than squires (I will probably send an image) and it perfectly fits to the training system
Sky champion - the rider charge isnt the same thing as jousting (grim raiders have this ability) and this unit should be a bit stronger than the paladins (to fit into the training system)
So, here I will explain the training system:
Peasant > Archer > Pikeman (now the unit learns something about defense) > Squire (now gets armor) > Crusader (now learns more about sword fighting and holy protection) > Priest (from squire to priest just sounds ridiculous - a lvl 4 unit is missing and the crusader knows something about holy protection) > Paladin > Sky champion (he already knows how to ride, so he can now learn to ride a griffin) - makes sense to me!
Lets continue:
Gog - his ability should strike also friendly targets
Incubus - OK, I realised already that he is too powerful with his vorpal sword, I just wanted to know what other think. I deleted it. BTW, his appearance: I imagine him as a male succubuss with a face like a devil in HoMM3 (the grimmy smile and black beard)
Efreet - he should be a lvl 5 unit to be equal to Djinns, and besides I dont like Nightmares, so this would be a better choice for me!
Gating system:
Basic gating: Imps, Gogs and Demons
Advanced: the previous + Cerberi, Succubi and Incubi
Expert: + Efreeti, Nightmares and Pit lords
Ultimate: + Devils
Ghouls - seem OK to me!
Acolytes - if you think it would be a better alternative to Vampires... I dont know. Maybe we should vote, but I think this unit is too weak for a lvl 4.
Death knights - ARE YOU SURE YOU DONT LIKE DEADLY STRIKE??? If it sounds unbalanced, it could kill only 25% or so...
Necromancy:
This is going to be a problem I think... For example if a lvl 2 unit is going to be turned undead, what will it transform to? A zombie or ghoul? It could be like this: the player chooses or it will accord to your town... or maybe according to the turned creature? This should be more discussed...
Nomad - the name sounds good to me; if it would be alternative to gargoyles, Id rather pick Nomads. His weakness could be placement on the battlefield (he is a large creature) so it would be a better choice for someone to pick gargoyles... And his position in the town: why should all humans in Academy be wizards? And there is only one human unit in this town - mage!!!
Obelisk - this is not supposed to be a shooter, but what should it do? Just stand there? Look, first of all, it hould be a good caster (a wizard town with such a low number of casters???) and the shooter ability is just secondary - probably may have 3-5 shots? Btw, if you dont understand these spells, wait for the magic part.
Sphinx - the riddle attack is only once per combat and when used against PC, could work as random chance.
All the added Academy units are large creatures!!! This feature would make it more complicated to choose... so I think it is good to have them alternative to large creatures.
Troglodytes - they are not as strong as blood maidens, but stronger than scouts. They are more defensive types and their population could be very high. I would probably pick troglodytes, because I hate when my blood maidens always die. They are defensless! They always die when they are the first time attacked! It always ends this way: I have some black dragons and only about 14-21 maidens!!! I like troglodytes more.
Spider - I am glad you like this unit! I added the poison ability - its just the one thats missing! I cant imagine them in necropolis, although that the spider is one of their symbols, because it isnt undead!
Evil eye - you can call him beholder if you want! It doesnt matter
Tiger rider - I think its a good alternative to the hunter. Would be a lot stronger than blade dancers. Its like a hunter riding a tiger. I dont know why you dont like his attack. It sounds good to me - because of short range he would have to run into the middle of the battlefield and shoot on the next turn. The chain shot is because of the boomerang effect of the projectiles he throws (in WARCRAFT III it is so by the Night elves). And besides it doesnt mean one more shooter to Sylvan, because he would be alternative to hunters! And he also doesnt have to have many shots, only about 3.
Sharpshooter - his power would be too good for a lvl 3 unit. He is lot stronger than hunters, and it would make the choice between druids and sharpshooters more difficult.
Hill giants - I probably have to draw them to make you understand. I dont see them as brutes but nature lovers! And their ranged attack isnt such good at all: it damages also friendly units and he has got only 3 shots. Maybe short range would solve this problem?
So you think its too much ranged units for Sylvan? All these alt units are ranged, yes? but it doesnt make a difference if you realise that Tiger riders and Sharpshooters are alternative to ranged units and Tiger riders and Giants have only 3 shots.
This should explain it!
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 11, 2006 02:59 PM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 15:03, 11 Sep 2006.
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So, as I said, I will try to draw these creatures: Incubus, Crusader and Hill giant.
But before I send here the next topic (about neutral creatures) we have to finish this and make a conclusion. For example, here is a question: what about buildings? I mean if the nightmare is alternative, what about the building - Halls of terror that increases their population? And Djinns - Treasure cave? And lots of next questions, like: will the alternative building rebuildable if I change my mind? Or it could just be like this: both creatures in the same building with lowered population? Also there can be new buildings included to the original towns that would come with the new ones - for example I was thinking about a crafters guild (my favorite!) that will increase population for gargoyles, golems, obelisks, sphinxes and titans!
If we make a conclusion about this, then we can go on the next topic.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 11, 2006 03:31 PM |
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Quote:
So, as I said, I will try to draw these creatures: Incubus, Crusader and Hill giant.
But before I send here the next topic (about neutral creatures) we have to finish this and make a conclusion. For example, here is a question: what about buildings? I mean if the nightmare is alternative, what about the building - Halls of terror that increases their population? And Djinns - Treasure cave? And lots of next questions, like: will the alternative building rebuildable if I change my mind? Or it could just be like this: both creatures in the same building with lowered population? Also there can be new buildings included to the original towns that would come with the new ones - for example I was thinking about a crafters guild (my favorite!) that will increase population for gargoyles, golems, obelisks, sphinxes and titans!
If we make a conclusion about this, then we can go on the next topic.
Sindbad, I think I'll keep it short, and just throw in a few comments here. Firstly, keep in eye the purpose of this excercise, is it just a thought experiment, or do you develop the thought towards a mod in time. And if the latter is the case, make sure there's a need for it. More specifically, keep in mind, when you make alternate creatures, whether there is in fact need for an alternate to the creature you want to replace (ie. no sense in making an alternate which nobody will ever choose to play) and also, consider whether there's a need for the specific creature you introduce - or more importantly, whether it'll in fact throw off the balance in the faction.
Oh and two more notes:
1) You can never never NEVER introduce the Deadly Strike in its current form to a creature you can recrute in the cities. It is only *marginally* acceptable because its currently at a neutral only creature.
2) Efreeti and Djinn are not equal creatures. 
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 11, 2006 08:50 PM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 13:21, 12 Sep 2006.
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Uh, your language is tooooo complicated...
And in my vision Dinns and Efreeti are equal!
Besides, I got those pictures finished!
This is a Swordsman (nod very good quality):
This is a Crusader (looks cool, doesnt it?):
And this is the Hill giant (covered in moss and weed; what should be his weapon? A giant club, a huge branch or maybe his fists?):
Pretty good, isnt it? Hope you like it!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 11, 2006 09:35 PM |
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I should say that my refferences are standard role playing worlds like Dungeons and Dragons etc. A good refference for the D&D monster world is this site: d20 monsters. There you'll for instance see that the classic Hill Giants are Chaotic Evil creatures, which make them very ill suited for the Sylvan. Also, you will see that the Genies come as Janni, Djinni and Efreeti, where the Efreeti are the strongest (and are evil). That was why I said Efreeti should be level 6, but of course, we can interpret the creatures as we want. 
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted September 11, 2006 10:38 PM |
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Hey those look great! I love the Hill Giant with that look of gentle misunderstanding and the pervert Saracen/Japanese with a disturbing smile. And the crusader wth those tiny legs looks awesome! A fantastic comicbook could be made with those guys. Seriously. Something like those comics for W.o.W., just for Heroes
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 11, 2006 11:16 PM |
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Oh, here is the thread about the Alt Creatures.
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=18509
It should be welcome for people to make their own alt creatures.
Sinbad has done a good job in adding on to it.
I would still say that the purpose of alt creatures are:
1) to add more creatures into the game. There are just alot of fantasy creatures that we love that are missing from the game, and such system is a good way to add them in.
2) Its to give player more strategic choices. While there are difference, I still get the feel that the creature line up in each faction are too "balance", where each have a very similar amount of range, melee, and flyer. With Alth, you have more freedom over your army choice, where you could make a more melee army, or a more range attack army...etc. depend on how you like to play.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 12, 2006 09:52 AM |
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Hi Actionjack, good to see you back.
I know we've had this discussion before, and I'll still hold my point that one has to keep some sort of balance. I have no problem with offering tactic alternatives - for instance, Defensive Walker vs. Offensive Walker or Ranged vs. Flying. However, I also think it'll be a problem if you make the alternatives *too* imballanced - thus, offering the choice between say a Defensive Walker vs. Ranged will probably not be much of a choice, because 99.9 % of the times, you'll choose the ranged unit. Also, I think one should be carefull to limit the choice of Ranged units to 2-3 available units per town, having 4 ranged units will simpy be too much of an advantage (and yes, I know you say you can pick a strategy to counterballance it, but first of all, it's gonna make you crush the neutrals (which will always be an advantage), and secondly, it's gonna force the opponents to make choices they might not find very funny).
Anyway, that's just my oppinion. Also, I think it's important to consider which creatures to make alternatives for. For me, it's most important to make alternatives for the creatures that are currently not-so-well-liked (Peasant, Inquisitor, Overseer, Zombie, Ghost, Wraith, Treant, Gargoyle etc.). Of course, you canmake alternatives to popular creatures, but who's really gonna select the alternative to the Champion, when the Champion is one of the best creatures (for its level) in the game? Of course, it makes sense to bring back some popular old creatures, but I think the main focus should be on those that currently don't work optimally.
PS. I'll post some scetches for stats for alternative creatures soon.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted September 12, 2006 01:19 PM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 14:39, 12 Sep 2006.
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Hi guys! Thanks for stopping here and I am glad you like my artwork!
And Alc, please, let it be. This is my thread, where I present my own fantasy ideas. I dont know anything about your game with genies and hill giants, so it doesnt make a problem in Heroes. Yes, the Efreeti are stronger than Djinns, but its not a reason to make them a lvl higher creature. And the same with Hill giants: I have illustrated them so you can see that they fit quite good into sylvan. You are just trying to argue some things that arent important - you just need to change his name (maybe to Stone golem > Granite golem?)! And please, accept my ideas as they are and dont try to make any radical changes. You know, they dont have to be included to the game at all! You are seeing things too statistic, like balance, etc. So lets just accept it and not argue any more, OK? I just wanna be friends...
Hey, do you like the pictures? Wanna see more? What should be next?
Have you got some more questions about this topic, or are you satisfied, so I can send the next?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 12, 2006 02:16 PM |
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Peace Sindbad, didn't want to offend you, simply to give you some feedback, that was ment to be helpful. And yes, you have full liberty to ignore it when it concerns *your* ideas.
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