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| Thread: Advanced Classes - A specific suggestion for modification of Class System. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 01, 2007 01:13 AM |
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I will - later. But now is New Year!  Thanx for the aknowledgement!
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted January 01, 2007 11:01 AM |
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alc today i was reading through pages 1-3 and i got farely confused, i would like to request you make a up-to-date master post, with your new markel and Fortress subclasses,
also, i was reading through the last page and i saw that there were 3 subclasses, one for might, one for magic, and one for ......  can you give use some info please
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 01, 2007 05:56 PM |
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Even I can answer that :
The Planeswalker is not a sub-class, but the basic class of a Conflux faction that alcibiades and Daystar made. The Elementalist and the Conjurer are its sub-classes (might and magic respectively).
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted January 02, 2007 04:27 PM |
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got it, thanks Geny, altough i still find it hard to imagin a mighty elemental, magic yes, but not might
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 02, 2007 04:43 PM |
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So you're saying that you can't imagine a mighty elemental (btw who said that the heroes themselves are elementals?), but you never had any trouble imagining a mighty mage or a magic barbarian?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 02, 2007 05:39 PM |
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Hi HyDrA, I will try to explain the reasons for some of the issues you mention. All your points are indeed very valid!
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While I am definitely an activist for the division of class groups in the game as you have suggested (might and magic), which removes the stereotypes a town may have for being more inclined to might or more inclined to magic, I have a few qualms with the idea.
Firstly, the preset "might and magic" skills and the 3 skills needed to specialise in a particular class, make the game more streamlined as to which skills are chosen. For example, once becoming a Demoniac, the new skill percentages are such that the players is precluded from learning any sort of skills that may boost his/her magical attributes. This wouldn't have been a problem in the old system since the experience curve is so high that there would be little chance to branch out due to the levels effectively being capped in the late 20s. With your new system for experience, it favours the development of more skills because of the slow curve, and the possibility to achieve 5 - 10 more levels with comparable experience.
I'm not entirely sure I understand you're problem in this part - or, I think I do, but as you say yourself, lower experience requirements for levels past level 12 will make it easier to do this branching out. Of course, whether you're interested in this depends on your gaming style - I always favored the extremely long-winded games on as large maps as possible, and that's obviously what's reflected in my wishes for the game. Player's who favor the Multiplayer game style where rushing is often the best way to win will obviously not see the same potential in this new feature. I also think, however, that the beauty of the model is that you can play even without aiming for the secondary classes, and the game wouldn't be changed at all. And because any combination of 3 skills belonging to either Might or Magic will trigger the Secondary class, it should be possible to obtain it even without aiming for it particularly - thus, NOT aiming for it will not give you a particular disadvantage.
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The main problem is that most heroes are already inclined to become might or magic due to their initial skill percentages. E.g., the Knight has 58/90 percent invested in might skills (10 is taken for racial skill) making it difficult to specialise in magic - 3 highest % = 8+8+10 = 26 vs 3 highest % for might = 10+15+15 = 40.
This is very true. What this means is that if you play a class which is primarily Might (Knight, Demon Lord, Ranger) you will have to actively aim for your Magic Subclass if you want to get it - and obviously, the other is the case for the Magic classes. The obvious case to work around this would be to go back to the old system of 2 classes and no subclasses - but that's not how they made the game, and the idea of this topic (and the other Alternative Classes topic) was to come up with a model that could work within the frames of the current game. True, I have made a very few changes to the excisting numbers and a couple of Ultimate Ability Requierements, but even those could be left unchanged.
Obviously, if one changed some parts of the current game, one could come up with better solutions. Beside the obvious approach of two basic classes, one could change the basic class to be more "neutral" - with more or less even Stat increase and availibility of abilities - this would make the original class in between and would guarantee that both classes were equally available. This would, however, radically change the gameplay, because it would make all the factions develop more or less similarly from the beginning!
Finally, I would like to say that even though one Subclass is going to be less likely, with three skills at 8 % or more, it's still going to be overly likely that you'll obtain that subclass if you aim for it. I think I did the calculus in one of the posts.
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With the class abilities, I think they are superfluous - the bonuses gained through adopting that advanced class is enough. While your experience curve does allow for an additional few level ups (in long games), in shorter games, there will hardly be time for the hero to develop the class skill, racial skill, their abilities, as well as the standard 6 abilities. This may instigate the players to refuse the specialisations in short games. In the first 16 or so levels, there is minimal difference between the experience curves, and around the mid-late teens is the usual maximum for a small - medium map.
I think what may be more fitting is to have two ultimate racial abilities, one centred on magic and the other on might. Going for two separate Ultimate Abilities in the one game is almost impossible and most certainly impractical.
In this part, I must disagree with you. I think the Subclass abilities is a central aspect of this, because that's what's going to make it worthwhile (and fun!) to obtain the Subclass. True, it'll primarily be in long games it'll come into play, but for those games, it's particularly important to have something to keep leveling up exciting. The more skills and abilities, the better imo.! And in the short games - well, there's nothing lost with having the new feature, even if it doesn't come into play! And about the Ultimate Abilities: You are not supposed to aim for 2 at a time. That'd be virtually unobtainable. It's supposed to be alternatives - like, you can obtain Subclass and still choose to aim for main class Ultimate Ability, if you want to.
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As an alternative suggestions on how one could reach the might or magic class, it could be less restrictive if there were a pre-determined set of might/magic heroes already like in previous games, where the percentages are already divided into their sub-groups, and where specialising in 3 skills would provide further benefits. Otherwise I think it is too long-winded starting from scratch with a base hero.
However, it is a great original idea and many of the principles are very sound in my mind. Well done to Geny also for providing suggestions.
I think I answered this part above, but as I said, yes - totally reworking the Heroes system might be a simple (and better? I don't know) solution. This was intended to work within the frames of the current game. I also must say, however, that I like the fact that this system will expand the range of levels on which your Hero will be able to gain skills, abilities, and specialize! The sad thing is, that so far Heroes 5 has not been able to provide maps for epic gameplaying - but hopefully, that'll come!
And again - thanx for the recognition!
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted January 11, 2007 12:37 PM |
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“I'm not entirely sure I understand you're problem in this part - or, I think I do, but as you say yourself, lower experience requirements for levels past level 12 will make it easier to do this branching out.”
What I am getting at here is that once the might class has been chosen (with or without the player’s intention), seeing as it is not overly difficult to achieve a specific might subclass for a might-oriented base hero, it would be difficult to invest in some non-might skills. Let’s take a case-in-point. For example, a Knight takes Attack, Defense, and Leadership skills not because they lead to the might (Lord) class, but that they suit the hero and circumstances. Then, if the hero has the intention of studying enlightenment, it would become very difficult due to the 2% for a Lord, (even though Enlightenment isn’t really a “magic” skill of sorts). However, you can choose to reject the class, but then the fruits of the subclass skill will remain unreaped.
I would go a step further and say that Enlightenment and maybe Luck could constitute no class (as there isn’t really a tendency towards might or magic for either). It seems they have been arbitrarily chosen to fit the structure.
“Of course, whether you're interested in this depends on your gaming style - I always favored the extremely long-winded games on as large maps as possible, and that's obviously what's reflected in my wishes for the game.”
Yep, that was the first thing I noticed when reading the proposals. 
“thus, NOT aiming for it will not give you a particular disadvantage.”
Yes, not AIMING for it may not give you a particular disadvantage, but choosing to refuse the specific class skill would. I think the magic of Heroes is that there is no real ‘correct’ decision everytime, and that many options are viable ones in the course of the game. However, with this added skill, it would be quite absurd to reject the class subskill in its current form (as you will be missing out on an entire skill – especially difficult in long games). To remedy this, (since you’re intent on keeping these subclass skills, would be to offer a base skill set also, for those who have decided not to specialise, this would keep all 3 classes viable. In short games, you could get away without specialising to might or magic, but I believe one track would have to be taken in long games, especially for the main hero.
“The obvious case to work around this would be to go back to the old system of 2 classes and no subclasses - but that's not how they made the game, and the idea of this topic (and the other Alternative Classes topic) was to come up with a model that could work within the frames of the current game.”
I understand your thinking here. Don’t you think though that adding two branching subclasses, each with their own subskills is as large a change as adding two might and magic skills from the start?
“this would make the original class in between and would guarantee that both classes were equally available. This would, however, radically change the gameplay, because it would make all the factions develop more or less similarly from the beginning!”
Yes, I agree. I don’t believe this would be a good solution. I think in order for two class-skills to be employed from the start, it would have to work similar to Heroes III. (That was a good system, in my opinion). Since Heroes 5 is largely modelled on Heroes III anyway, there wouldn’t be too much incongruity between your idea, the Heroes III format, and the current format.
“True, it'll primarily be in long games it'll come into play, but for those games, it's particularly important to have something to keep leveling up exciting.”
The 6 base skills + racial skill are enough in my mind to keep levelling-up exciting. The Heroes V skill-system is already so utterly intertwined that there are a number of different ability combinations you can aim for and still have some other specific abilities to obtain. Adding another more ‘special’ skill into the mix, while surely increasing levelling-up prospects, would simply present too many abilities to take and form even more pre-requisites for the pertinent existing skills (might for might-subclass, etc.).
“And about the Ultimate Abilities: You are not supposed to aim for 2 at a time. That'd be virtually unobtainable. It's supposed to be alternatives - like, you can obtain Subclass and still choose to aim for main class Ultimate Ability, if you want to.”
Of course, there is no dispute here, as I said in my post. Undoubtedly, trying to get 2 ultimate abilities is nigh on impossible, given the difficulty in getting just 1 in the current iteration of Heroes V.
What I was suggesting was to, instead of offering complete new skill sets, offer 2 ultimate abilities, one centred on might, and the other on magic, which would make them more obtainable due to the fewer skills required to access either one of them. (Not too obtainable, though.  )
“also must say, however, that I like the fact that this system will expand the range of levels on which your Hero will be able to gain skills, abilities, and specialize!”
I’m not denying your idea doesn’t allow this. It is certainly one of the best original ideas I have read concerning this matter. I’m not convinced, however, that it is perfect and cannot be improved upon. I agree that these elements are integral for interesting hero development, and that there are many ways of trying to make it work within the current framework of the game.
“The sad thing is, that so far Heroes 5 has not been able to provide maps for epic gameplaying - but hopefully, that'll come!”
Absolutely. If anyone has a remake of Broken Alliance, I’d like to see it!
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KnightDougal
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted January 11, 2007 06:59 PM |
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Alicabades: I sorry what I did. I realy sorry . Now I understand why you hate my Settlement. What about become one group?
The group nembers shoud be:
Bixie
KnightDougal
Alcibades
VokailBG
GenieLord
Ted
Good?
Okay, what about Settlement subclasses? (sorry writing about them):
Normal Class: Warboss
Migt Class: Warsmith
Magic Class: Battle Mage
bad or good idea???
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted January 11, 2007 07:06 PM |
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The group nembers shoud be:
Bixie
KnightDougal
Alcibades
VokailBG
GenieLord
Ted
that list is "of course " good, where pactically the only guys in the Alter (sorry to others) everyone else is in the Temple of Ashan, but still, can't complain, whats this group for anyway?
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Normal Class: Warboss
Migt Class: Warsmith
Magic Class: Battle Mage
bad or good idea???
well first off, i think that Warboss, is fine, Warsmith, is a rather smart idea, but unneeded, blacksmith would be fine, finally the battle mage is good at might and magic? (battle=might, mage=magic)
Conclusion
need to change both subclasses and whats the list for?
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KnightDougal
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted January 11, 2007 07:11 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
The group nembers shoud be:
Bixie
KnightDougal
Alcibades
VokailBG
GenieLord
Ted
that list is "of course" good, where pactically the only guys in the Alter (sorry to others) everyone else is in the Temple of Ashan, but still, can't complain, whats this group for anyway?
Quote:
Normal Class: Warboss
Migt Class: Warsmith
Magic Class: Battle Mage
bad or good idea???
well first off, i think that Warboss, is fine, Warsmith, is a rather smart idea, but unneeded, blacksmith would be fine, finally the battle mage is good at might and magic? (battle=might, mage=magic)
Conclusion
need to change both subclasses and whats the list for?
look:
Battle Mage=Battlemage, like Arch Devil=Archdevil
"Battlemage/Battle Mage" is the combination of Barbarian and Wizard.
Blamatsmith???? Okay, I shoud give better:
Normal: Warboss
Magic: Battlemage
Might: Artistan
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted January 11, 2007 08:03 PM |
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yes thats the point, the battlemage, is barbarian (you said this) and a mage, thus would be good at both might and magic
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 13, 2007 11:26 AM |
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What I am getting at here is that once the might class has been chosen (with or without the player’s intention), seeing as it is not overly difficult to achieve a specific might subclass for a might-oriented base hero, it would be difficult to invest in some non-might skills. Let’s take a case-in-point. For example, a Knight takes Attack, Defense, and Leadership skills not because they lead to the might (Lord) class, but that they suit the hero and circumstances. Then, if the hero has the intention of studying enlightenment, it would become very difficult due to the 2% for a Lord, (even though Enlightenment isn’t really a “magic” skill of sorts). However, you can choose to reject the class, but then the fruits of the subclass skill will remain unreaped.
That is a very good point.  You could, however, make it so that once you qualified for the Subclass, a box would become available for selection - and then you could make the change at any time you wanted. In this way, if you play Knight, once you have 3 Might Skills, a "become Lord" button is available. You can choose to stay Knight for however long time you want to, if you will like to progress for some specific secondary skill before you turn Lord. And then you can choose for yourself to do it anytime you want. In that way, you will not have missed out on anything. You might even wait and see if the Cleric class becomes available for you, if you want to hold that opportunity open as well.
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I would go a step further and say that Enlightenment and maybe Luck could constitute no class (as there isn’t really a tendency towards might or magic for either). It seems they have been arbitrarily chosen to fit the structure.
No, I don't agree in this. Luck is for me very much a Might skill: It gives you a chance for your troops to do more damage, and it will make you resist magic. True, some specific abilities like Warlords Luck couples luck to Magic, but it's deffinitely a Might skill.
In the same way, Enlightenment might be in between the two groops, but look at the abilities tight to this skill: Arcane Intuition, Enlightenment, Scholar, Wizards Reward, Graduate, etc. All these relate to Magic. True, Know Your Enemy crosses over to Might, but still - a magic skill.
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Yes, not AIMING for it may not give you a particular disadvantage, but choosing to refuse the specific class skill would. I think the magic of Heroes is that there is no real ‘correct’ decision everytime, and that many options are viable ones in the course of the game. However, with this added skill, it would be quite absurd to reject the class subskill in its current form (as you will be missing out on an entire skill – especially difficult in long games). To remedy this, (since you’re intent on keeping these subclass skills, would be to offer a base skill set also, for those who have decided not to specialise, this would keep all 3 classes viable. In short games, you could get away without specialising to might or magic, but I believe one track would have to be taken in long games, especially for the main hero.
Again, admittedly, true.
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“... the idea of this topic (and the other Alternative Classes topic) was to come up with a model that could work within the frames of the current game.”
I understand your thinking here. Don’t you think though that adding two branching subclasses, each with their own subskills is as large a change as adding two might and magic skills from the start?
True. As the idea evolved, the changes became more and more elaborate, and the sub-class system is probably as radical a change as adding a new primary class. The original approach was simply to change stat progression during game depending on which skills you chose - things then developed from there, and I guess I was somewhat blind to how far at had progressed from there.
I still like this idea, because I like the way it will make you adapt your Hero during the game. That will make the gaming time more exciting for me. With the traditional 2-class system, you had to make the choice from the very beginning - without knowing what the map would look like, and which skills would become available to your Hero, plus all the other things.
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The 6 base skills + racial skill are enough in my mind to keep levelling-up exciting. The Heroes V skill-system is already so utterly intertwined that there are a number of different ability combinations you can aim for and still have some other specific abilities to obtain. Adding another more ‘special’ skill into the mix, while surely increasing levelling-up prospects, would simply present too many abilities to take and form even more pre-requisites for the pertinent existing skills (might for might-subclass, etc.).
True - in fact I was very much complaining about the intertwined skills when the game came out, so I can follow you on that. I think that no matter whether the Skills and Clases are changed or not, we still need to change the XP scale - because the current system aims for a level 36 roof (you have 36 level-ups to max out all your skills and abilities) but the XP scale effectively blocks any increase beyond level 31 or 32 - which to me is a serious problem.
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What I was suggesting was to, instead of offering complete new skill sets, offer 2 ultimate abilities, one centred on might, and the other on magic, which would make them more obtainable due to the fewer skills required to access either one of them. (Not too obtainable, though. )
There is in fact currently two "Ultimate" abilities for each Class. One is in the Class Skill, and requires 4 specific secondary skills to obtain - and then there is another which requires 4 other specific secondary skills to be obtained. For instance for the Knight, you have:
Ultimate Ability: Unstoppable Charge (Counterstrike + Luck, Logistics, Enlightenment and Light Magic.
Alternative Ultimate Ability: Power Of Speed (Attack + Defence, Dark Mgic and Leadership).
However, these Skills are not specifically modelled for Might vs. Magic, and only one of them belongs to the Class skill.
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KnightDougal
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted January 19, 2007 10:33 AM |
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AS for Advenced Heroes
Tropical (GenieLord town idea):
Normal class: Drowner (as GenieLord said)
Might class: Planeswalker (yep, shoud be Planeswalker)
Magic class: Aqua Wizard (shoud be...)
Stampede (bixie's town idea)
Normal class: Feastmaster
Might class: Barbarian
Magic class: Feastmage
Stronghold (it is bixie's too)
Normal class: Boyar
Might class: Expoler (something like the scout)
Magic class: Sylath Priest
Settlement (my town idea)
Normal class: Warboss
Might class: Blamatsmith
Magic class: War Zaelot
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted January 19, 2007 07:15 PM |
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Quote:
Tropical (GenieLord town idea):
Normal class: Drowner (as GenieLord said)
Might class: Planeswalker (yep, shoud be Planeswalker)
Magic class: Aqua Wizard (shoud be...)
Planeswalker? isnt that a magicicle person, and its for Alcs elemental town
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Stampede (bixie's town idea)
Normal class: Feastmaster
Might class: Barbarian
Magic class: Feastmage
no real arguements there
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Stronghold (it is bixie's too)
Normal class: Boyar
Might class: Expoler (something like the scout)
Magic class: Sylath Priest
sounds ok, but the priests a bit Haven like
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Settlement (my town idea)
Normal class: Warboss
Might class: Blamatsmith
Magic class: War Zaelot
and i said 10 times   already, a War Zealot is not a idea
War= Might orriented
Zaelot= Magic orriented
so together they make a spell casting orc with an axe
and finally, wheres my hobbits?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 19, 2007 07:27 PM |
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A Zealot isn't necessarily something with magic. He's just one who has lots of passion (= Zeal) for what he's doing.
And what's the thing with the Feastmaster? Shouldn't that be a Beastmaster?
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 19, 2007 08:15 PM |
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And what's the thing with the Feastmaster? Shouldn't that be a Beastmaster?
no, your wrong, Alc, its feast master, master of feast magic!!!!.
you really haven't been to the colesium recently, both towns are up their.
just one more thing
KD, HOW DARE YOU MAKE ADVANCED CLASSES WITHOUT ASKING ME FIRST!!!
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Stampede (bixie's town idea)
Normal class: Feastmaster
Might class: Barbarian
Magic class: Feastmage
A FEAST MASTER USES FEAST MAGIC, HOW ON EARTH WILL THERE BE A FEAST MAGE WHO USES FEAST MAGIC. THE BARBARIAN DOESN'T FIT EITHER, YOU'VE SINGLEHANDEDLY SCREWED UP THE STAMPEDE IN ONE POST!
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Stronghold (it is bixie's too)
Normal class: Boyar
Might class: Expoler (something like the scout)
Magic class: Sylath Priest
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!! IT WOULDN'T BE A EXPLORER, BUT A COLONIST. THEY DON'T EXPLORE THE WORLD, THE COLONISE IT AND INDUSTRIALIST IT AND TAKE THE PROFIT, LEAVING THE WORKERS WITH NOTHING. THE CHRUCH OF SYLATH IS RUN BY A COMPANY, WHICH IS RUN BY BOYARS, SO THE BOYARS ARE ALL THE SUB CLASSES ROLLED INTO ONE. THIS IS EVEN WORSE THAN THE STAMPEDE SUBCLASSES!
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KnightDougal
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted January 19, 2007 08:17 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
And what's the thing with the Feastmaster? Shouldn't that be a Beastmaster?
no, your wrong, Alc, its feast master, master of feast magic!!!!.
you really haven't been to the colesium recently, both towns are up their.
just one more thing
KD, HOW DARE YOU MAKE ADVANCED CLASSES WITHOUT ASKING ME FIRST!!!
Quote:
Stampede (bixie's town idea)
Normal class: Feastmaster
Might class: Barbarian
Magic class: Feastmage
A FEAST MASTER USES FEAST MAGIC, HOW ON EARTH WILL THERE BE A FEAST MAGE WHO USES FEAST MAGIC. THE BARBARIAN DOESN'T FIT EITHER, YOU'VE SINGLEHANDEDLY SCREWED UP THE STAMPEDE IN ONE POST!
Quote:
Stronghold (it is bixie's too)
Normal class: Boyar
Might class: Expoler (something like the scout)
Magic class: Sylath Priest
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!! IT WOULDN'T BE A EXPLORER, BUT A COLONIST. THEY DON'T EXPLORE THE WORLD, THE COLONISE IT AND INDUSTRIALIST IT AND TAKE THE PROFIT, LEAVING THE WORKERS WITH NOTHING. THE CHRUCH OF SYLATH IS RUN BY A COMPANY, WHICH IS RUN BY BOYARS, SO THE BOYARS ARE ALL THE SUB CLASSES ROLLED INTO ONE. THIS IS EVEN WORSE THAN THE STAMPEDE SUBCLASSES!
Okay then:
Normal class: Boyar
Might class: Colonel
Magic class: Seer
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 19, 2007 08:38 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And what's the thing with the Feastmaster? Shouldn't that be a Beastmaster?
no, your wrong, Alc, its feast master, master of feast magic!!!!.
you really haven't been to the colesium recently, both towns are up their.
just one more thing
KD, HOW DARE YOU MAKE ADVANCED CLASSES WITHOUT ASKING ME FIRST!!!
Quote:
Stampede (bixie's town idea)
Normal class: Feastmaster
Might class: Barbarian
Magic class: Feastmage
A FEAST MASTER USES FEAST MAGIC, HOW ON EARTH WILL THERE BE A FEAST MAGE WHO USES FEAST MAGIC. THE BARBARIAN DOESN'T FIT EITHER, YOU'VE SINGLEHANDEDLY SCREWED UP THE STAMPEDE IN ONE POST!
Quote:
Stronghold (it is bixie's too)
Normal class: Boyar
Might class: Expoler (something like the scout)
Magic class: Sylath Priest
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!! IT WOULDN'T BE A EXPLORER, BUT A COLONIST. THEY DON'T EXPLORE THE WORLD, THE COLONISE IT AND INDUSTRIALIST IT AND TAKE THE PROFIT, LEAVING THE WORKERS WITH NOTHING. THE CHRUCH OF SYLATH IS RUN BY A COMPANY, WHICH IS RUN BY BOYARS, SO THE BOYARS ARE ALL THE SUB CLASSES ROLLED INTO ONE. THIS IS EVEN WORSE THAN THE STAMPEDE SUBCLASSES!
Okay then:
Normal class: Boyar
Might class: Colonel
Magic class: Seer
I DON'T EVEN WANT SUBCLASSES FOR MY FACTIONS, KNIGHT DOUGAL, YOU SHOULD HAVE HAD THE COMMON DECENCY TO ASK IF I WANTED THEM!!!!!!!!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 19, 2007 08:52 PM |
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No need to shout ...
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 19, 2007 08:56 PM |
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sorry, i'm just so worked up about the fact that, no only did he screw up both factions, but he also didn't ask me whether i wanted them or not.
next time KD, ask!
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