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| Thread: Regarding game balance.. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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God2
Adventuring Hero
Your benevolent deity
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posted January 19, 2007 06:45 PM |
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Poll Question:
Regarding game balance..
Say, if someone like me would propose that a community balance patch for HOMM3 Complete was to be made, you would say...
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www.shoryuken.com
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 19, 2007 08:36 PM |
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I voted for "its 100% balanced"
During the years i made many balance modification patches for h3, but in the end i realized the best option is not to use either of them. Perhaps there is a need for more balance, perhaps there is not, but having same creature stats and other variables as 90% of other players is still a best option 
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FireSpirit
Famous Hero
with warm hands
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posted January 19, 2007 09:48 PM |
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Quote:
I voted for "its 100% balanced"
You forgot the Flux?
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God2
Adventuring Hero
Your benevolent deity
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posted January 19, 2007 11:33 PM |
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Edited by God2 at 23:34, 19 Jan 2007.
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Quote:
Quote:
I voted for "its 100% balanced"
You forgot the Flux?
And diplomacy, fly, dimension door, necro, expert town portal...
But yes, I have a tendency of reverting my files shortly after modifying them, but this is mostly because I cannot be sure if all my modifications are just. If more people were to agree on new stats it would be an entirely different case.
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www.shoryuken.com
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted January 19, 2007 11:55 PM |
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I wouldn't change anything. It's easier to rule out diplo instead of deleting all "non" important skills. All games would go the same way then...that's boring. I like randoms to be a bit unbalanced...no problem...one time it is you...next time it is the other guy...so what? This way, even new palyers have a chance to beat more skilled palyers and get highly motivated to play on. That's a good thing in my eyes...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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God2
Adventuring Hero
Your benevolent deity
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posted January 20, 2007 12:26 AM |
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Edited by God2 at 00:26, 20 Jan 2007.
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Quote:
I wouldn't change anything. It's easier to rule out diplo instead of deleting all "non" important skills. All games would go the same way then...that's boring. I like randoms to be a bit unbalanced...no problem...one time it is you...next time it is the other guy...so what? This way, even new palyers have a chance to beat more skilled palyers and get highly motivated to play on. That's a good thing in my eyes...
On the other hand, it restricts people's town choices if their favorite town is the worst town facing a good opponent using the best town. Also a bit unfair for those who like to play Necro and Conflux.
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www.shoryuken.com
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 20, 2007 12:48 AM |
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Its all true but i think it is still easier and simpler to put rules on the game instead.
Only way the "balance patch" would work would be if it was widely accepted (preferably officially launched), but that is impossible to achieve.
I think that each of us would think of slightly different stats as THE balanced ones, and it would bring more disorder than good.
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So, unless some major or bigger community stands behind it (for example tournament or league organizer - stating that the patch is default for their league or tournament matches), i don't think any sort of balance patch would get the needed acceptability and popularity.
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SAG
Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
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posted January 20, 2007 11:53 AM |
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currently i track statistics on most common rules that are used for online games (WCL league). time will tell us the truth.
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HeymlicH
Famous Hero
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posted January 20, 2007 12:38 PM |
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1. If you read this forum you find so many discussions about the "best" hero, town, creature. And whatever you state, someone else will say you are wrong. Almost everything in the game is great under certain conditions. It will be not so great under different conditions.
2. H3 is not a real multiplayer game. In the first place it is SP, and it is great. And the fact that there still is a community playing H3 online means that it is quite balanced.
3. There is a good chance that some "balancing" now would make things worse. This happened to many great games before. Blizzard seems to be an expert at ruining originally good games.
4. In H1 towns were quite unbalanced. But I liked this. After all this gave the chance to adjust the difficulty of a map: "Ok, I won this as a wizard. Can I do it as a knight?" If you want a really fair duel play chess. But I suggest you don't. I did so back when there were no computers, and I think it is boring compared to a game like H3.
There are very few really useless things in this game. And yes, there were games I wouldn't have won without eagle eye
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted January 20, 2007 03:09 PM |
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Quote:
I wouldn't change anything. It's easier to rule out diplo instead of deleting all "non" important skills. All games would go the same way then...that's boring. I like randoms to be a bit unbalanced...no problem...one time it is you...next time it is the other guy...so what? This way, even new palyers have a chance to beat more skilled palyers and get highly motivated to play on. That's a good thing in my eyes...
I disagree ...to make some essential changes doesnt make the game totally balanced. Btw. patch 1.4 was, as far as i remember, a player made patch, which were made offizial by 3DO.
The problem with the patches after, were that they made to many changes, instead of changing the obvious. So the [bold]acceptance[/bold] of these patches were very low. The patches only work if most players want the patches (like cranim.txt).
Xarfax1
PS: If the larger communities would promote, i would make a patch.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted January 20, 2007 03:20 PM |
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I voted that the game is 100% balanced as it is, although the Conflux town is pretty unbalened (too overpowered imo).
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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JungleMan
Hired Hero
Funkenstein
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posted January 20, 2007 04:08 PM |
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Quote:
I voted that the game is 100% balanced as it is, although the Conflux town is pretty unbalened (too overpowered imo).
Can you explain this about conflux?
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Jkwo
Hired Hero
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posted January 21, 2007 12:45 AM |
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Edited by Jkwo at 23:55, 21 Jan 2007.
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There are a lot of little things that are unbalanced that, IMO, just spice up the game like people said.
But I wouldn't mind a couple of changes.. namely, making a few inferno units cheaper, making phoenixes 3k gold + 3 mercury (or something like that).. The phoenixes are currently about as effective as Ghost Dragons for 1000 less, from what I've seen.
Also, sprites could be knocked down to 7 speed or so. Even though it's part of the game to have some level 1 (or whatever level) units stronger than other units of the same level, having a unit that's 30 gold a piece @ 50 a week that can do the wait+hit+run tactic on most monsters is just over the top, imo.
And a little off topic, I don't use Conflux much at all for some of the above reasons and others regarding balance, but also, I just think the phoenixes look like sloppily superimposed sprites whenever I see them in battle.. and it becomes grossly apparent when you move the cursor over them or when they move around. Does anyone else think this way?
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God2
Adventuring Hero
Your benevolent deity
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posted January 21, 2007 06:58 PM |
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Edited by God2 at 18:58, 21 Jan 2007.
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Perhaps some cost adjustments and some creature adjustments for inferno. The Pit Lords could do with a bit more health, and a bit lower cost. Personally, I would also like to see the Devil's attack and defence skills swapped, and add 1 speed to both. A cost reduction of 10 gold for imps and familiars also seems reasonable.
For Conflux a lot has to be done, but exactly where I am unsure. Your suggestion about the sprites sounds reasonable.
Some spells could also need tweaking, as some spell schools are clearly favored in front of others. Spells such as fire wall, land mines, etc.. should be improved so that they would actually see some use.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 22, 2007 12:19 AM |
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I actually think Heroes 3 was fairly well ballanced.
Certainly, a number of spells are extremely powerfull - but that's not imbalancing, because that's the same for every faction. Or nearly so - because Fortress and Stronghold would need to have level 4 mage-guild in order to not be a complete loser in the game. That was probably the biggest problem for me with Heroes 3.
Inferno seems to be somewhat of an underdog for several reasons. Units were too expensive - for me the Devil Dwelling especially stood out as rediculously expensive - especially considering how lousy the Devil was in terms of damage. Pit Lords probably were too low on HP also, and a tat too expensive.
About the Conflux issue - it seems to me that the main problem was with the Phoenix growth of 4 (with Castle). Sure, there were some other things that might have needed tweaking, but on XL maps with 2 or 3 Conflux towns the AI would very quickly become almost unbeatable. It seems to me that the best solution would be to change base Phoenix growth to 1 per week (2 with Castle) and then add a Growth booster to provide 1 extra Phoenix (suggestion for cost: 10 Wood + 10 Ore + 10 Mercury + 10.000 Gold).
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What will happen now?
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 22, 2007 01:09 AM |
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The specific changes are unimportant now. First and foremost thing to decide is ... do we really need a "universal/community-supported" patch... if we manage to answer that question then we can easily edit the games variables (creatures,economy,spells,etc.) and pack all changes into nice and fancy installation procedure. (or keep them as they are in case the answer for first question is no).
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HeymlicH
Famous Hero
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posted January 22, 2007 11:52 AM |
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Actually I know of something I would like to be changed:
You can only retreat from combat at the start of each turn.
As soon as you do any action - move, wait, attack, cast spell - you can't retreat until the start of the next turn. This would be the end for the bolt-and-retreat tactics.
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Yanzhangcan
Known Hero
*Dance*
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posted January 23, 2007 01:18 AM |
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Quote:
Perhaps some cost adjustments and some creature adjustments for inferno. The Pit Lords could do with a bit more health, and a bit lower cost. Personally, I would also like to see the Devil's attack and defence skills swapped, and add 1 speed to both. A cost reduction of 10 gold for imps and familiars also seems reasonable.
For Conflux a lot has to be done, but exactly where I am unsure. Your suggestion about the sprites sounds reasonable.
Some spells could also need tweaking, as some spell schools are clearly favored in front of others. Spells such as fire wall, land mines, etc.. should be improved so that they would actually see some use.
I agree, Inferno could do with some definite tweaking. Everything you said was good, I agree with you 100%.
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 23, 2007 12:59 PM |
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I don't believe in this. If you do I suggest you start discussing exactly what changes should be made; I guess you won't be able to agree on much, but give it a try.
As I see it balance should not be achieved through restrictions. Do you remember how Warcraft: Tides of Darkness was balanced? The orc and human units were exactly the same! It is difficult to have both balance and diversity. StarCraft solved the problem very well and I also think H3 is acceptable as it is.
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God2
Adventuring Hero
Your benevolent deity
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posted January 23, 2007 02:04 PM |
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Starcraft solved the problem with balance changes in multiple patches. So far HOMM3 has had almost none. I have already made a small list of changes for some factions that I can put up.
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www.shoryuken.com
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