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| Thread: Necromancy Calculator (with dark energy) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted January 30, 2007 05:11 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 17:16, 30 Jan 2007.
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You can see the new verion of my table in my previous post 
... or here
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 30, 2007 05:33 PM |
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Excellent! 
There is one thing you miss, though - the problem with the Pillar of Bones and its affect on the HP needed to raise one. Necromancy rates are as follows:
20 % / 30 % / 40 % / 50 %
And Piller of Bones will increase your Necromancy by 10 %. Thus, essentially, for each Pillar of Bones you have, you will increase one level in Necromancy (Basic + Pillar = Advanced; etc.) - the problem comes when you have multiple Pillars: Expert Necromancy + 2 Pillars = 60 % Necromancy, which goes beyond your chart. Now I know this is a detail - and certainly not essential for understanding the concepts or getting the overview - but if the chart should include *all* the information, that should be included as well in some way.
Now the tricky question is how to do that elegantly - because it looks really sweet with the Necromancy icons in the top, I have to agree. Maybe one could write a second row of numbers below the current numbers in the "HP needed" column to provide the number for first Pillar, then another row to provide numbers for 2nd pillar, and so on - that would look something like this (example: Skeletons):
20 - 15 - 10 - 8
15 - 10 - 8 - 7
10 - 8 - 7 - 6
where top row is numbers without Pillar, first row is number with 1 Pilalr, 2nd row is number with 2 Pillars, etc. However, since most of the numbers are replicas (the numbers simply move a position to the left in the row below), one could perhaps make a column to the right of the Ultimate Necromancy, and put a Pillar Of Bones icon in that one, and then add numbers for, say, 1, 2 and 3 Pillars beyond Ultimate. That would look something like this:
20 - 15 - 10 - 8 - 7/6/5
This should be read like you need 20 HP with Basic, 15 with Advanced, 10 with Expert, 8 with Ultimate, and then 7 with Ultimate + 1 Pillar; 6 with Ultimate + 2 Pillars, and 5 with Ultimate + 3 Pillars.
If you have instead only Advanced + 2 Pillars, you have to read that as Ultimate (= 8), whereas Expert + 2 Pillars = Ultimate + 1 Pillar (=7).
I don't know if this makes any sense. Maybe you can come up with a better way to include it. 
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted January 30, 2007 09:23 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 21:25, 30 Jan 2007.
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Hmmm, maybe to add 3 icons to the necromancy icon, 1 for pillar 1, 1 for pillar 2, and 1 for pillar 3 and down to write the HP's, like:
------------|-------------------
------------|P1_icon--|P3_icon-|
------------|-------------------
Skeleton----|15/10/8/7|10/8/7/6|
--------------------------------
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lord_crusader
Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
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posted January 30, 2007 11:06 PM |
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I have no problems using your calculator and is very nice! thanks!
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Dig Out Your Soul
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted January 30, 2007 11:23 PM |
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Quote:
I have no problems using your calculator and is very nice! thanks!
Ty there are some error in it (minor one) I will update later and add some more stuf.....
Like.....
the dark energy bonus (like U build pillar of bones and your hero raise in lvl..... then the dark energy raise too but not before the next week! so everything you do to raise dark energy it will not be activated until the new week arrives.... just a note....
I'm so sorry that there are trouble with my caculator (cause U need microsoft excel and stuff)
but I can nothing about pnp programming..... (but I'll learn....)
so far I've tested the calculator and it seems right (but there are some error with the total dark energy......
I think the coffisient are wrong but I'm working on it....
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 31, 2007 12:21 AM |
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I'm not quite sure I understand your latter - maybe you can visualize it. The "best" way I find to include all the data would be something like this, for the upper left corner of the table - but it's still VERY cluttered, so maybe it's just better to ignore it - I don't know.
The icons in the white column are suppoed to represent 0 Pillars / 1 Pillar / 2 Pillars / 3 Pillars.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 31, 2007 12:27 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I have no problems using your calculator and is very nice! thanks!
Ty there are some error in it (minor one) I will update later and add some more stuf.....
Like.....
the dark energy bonus (like U build pillar of bones and your hero raise in lvl..... then the dark energy raise too but not before the next week! so everything you do to raise dark energy it will not be activated until the new week arrives.... just a note....
I'm so sorry that there are trouble with my caculator (cause U need microsoft excel and stuff)
but I can nothing about pnp programming..... (but I'll learn....)
so far I've tested the calculator and it seems right (but there are some error with the total dark energy......
I think the coffisient are wrong but I'm working on it....
The coefficients in area R:8 to U:22 are wrong. What you do to correct it is the following:
- Go to cell T8.
- Change contents from: =SUM(S8*3) to: =SUM(R8*3)
- Go to cell U8.
- Change contents from: =SUM(T8*4) to: =SUM(R8*4)
- Drag formula of cell T8 through column to T32.
- Drag formula of cell U8 through column to U32.
This should correct the mistake, as far as I can see.
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted January 31, 2007 05:01 AM |
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new version of the calculator...
well ty for all feed back!!
I've been working on the "sheet" for several hours now after some (or lets say lots of testing game/editor.....)
and I added a few more "critical" things to the calculator....
(more necro heroes......)
take a look...
Necromancy Calculator v.1.02
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EvilP
Promising
Known Hero
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posted January 31, 2007 02:08 PM |
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Edited by EvilP at 14:43, 31 Jan 2007.
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err...
Pixie rise Spectre(Upgrade)
Sprite(Upgrade) rise Ghost
Ancient Treant(Upgrade) rise Wraith(Upgrade)
I have test in game...and...
a1p1-data.pak\GameMechanics\RPGStats\DefaultStats.xdb
line 335-664
<Item>
<Dead>CREATURE_PIXIE</Dead>
<Rise>CREATURE_GHOST</Rise>
</Item>
<Item>
<Dead>CREATURE_SPRITE</Dead>
<Rise>CREATURE_MANES</Rise>
</Item>
<Item>
<Dead>CREATURE_TREANT_GUARDIAN</Dead>
<Rise>CREATURE_WRAITH</Rise>
</Item>
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 31, 2007 02:26 PM |
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Actually, mine reads:
<Item>
<Dead>CREATURE_PIXIE</Dead>
<Rise>CREATURE_MANES</Rise>
</Item>
<Item>
<Dead>CREATURE_SPRITE</Dead>
<Rise>CREATURE_GHOST</Rise>
<Item>
There is, however, ground for some confusion here, because many of the data file names for the creatures don't match the actual names of the creatures in the game. Thus, what's called a "Mane" in the data file is the creature known as "Ghost" in the game, whereas "Ghost" in the data file is the "Spectre" in the game!
Similarly, Walking Dead = Zombie and Zombie = Plague Zombie!
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted February 01, 2007 12:04 PM |
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Edited by fiur at 12:15, 01 Feb 2007.
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New calc. (v.1.03)
Several changes to the calculator
1. fixed several bugs!
2. added "hyperlinks" (easier to navigate...)
3. added a progress table (where u manually can fill in your De)
and last just a note to understand the calculator better...
only fill in Heroes changes on the last day of the week...
(cause current changes to your status don't change your de until the following week......)
Necro.calc.v.1.03
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 02, 2007 12:59 AM |
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More charts ...
For those that are not only chart-a-holics, but chat-o-maniacs, here is a char modelled over VokialBGs excellent chart that shows DE costs of creatures with new Necromancy, unit combinations (what becomes what) and HP requirements to raise different creatures with different levels of Necromancy and Pillars of Bones. There is a lot of information in this chart, so it's big and slightly confusing - but I'll share it in case anybody wants to have a look.
Photobucket Link for scaled-down version. Easily accessible but scaled down due to Photobucket restrictions on image size.
Lokal server full-size version. Lokal server has a tendenzy to disconnect every now and then, so less accessible than above, but full size and image quality.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted February 02, 2007 07:20 AM |
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Edited by emilsn at 07:23, 02 Feb 2007.
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I just wanna say: I think this new system is really good, though if you only can get Skeleton archers from lvl 1 and 2 ranged creatures you will never get tons of them?
And now when you cannot get racial skill: Raise skeleton archers you can get Mark of the wizard , what do that for the skill tree?
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted February 02, 2007 07:38 AM |
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Quote:
For those that are not only chart-a-holics, but chat-o-maniacs, here is a char modelled over VokialBGs excellent chart that shows DE costs of creatures with new Necromancy, unit combinations (what becomes what) and HP requirements to raise different creatures with different levels of Necromancy and Pillars of Bones. There is a lot of information in this chart, so it's big and slightly confusing - but I'll share it in case anybody wants to have a look.
Photobucket Link for scaled-down version. Easily accessible but scaled down due to Photobucket restrictions on image size.
Lokal server full-size version. Lokal server has a tendenzy to disconnect every now and then, so less accessible than above, but full size and image quality.
A very good chart indeed!!! good work.....
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sfidanza
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 02, 2007 09:00 AM |
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Edited by sfidanza at 09:06, 02 Feb 2007.
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Good work indeed!
However, as you say Alcibiades, this kind of chart is not for the mainstream player, and I have to make it simpler for the manual. With that in mind, I'll share my thoughts here:
1. The necromancy levels represents 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%. Each Pillar of Bone adds 10%, so as you already said, it amounts to go one column to the right. That would not be a big intellectual challenge, seeing as there are some calculations left to the player already (see point 2).
Especially since the (artifact) Pendant of the Necromancer also increases the Necromancy by 10%, and the Grail building adds a 50% boost. So to be complete, I should add them as well.
What I'm thinking is taking all this out of the Dark Energy table, in its own small table giving the Necromancy value:
---------- | Basic | Adv. -| Expert | Ultimate | Pillar | Pendant | Grail
Necromancy |- 20% -|- 30% -|- 40% --|-- 50% ---|- +10% -|- +10% --|- +50%
2. The HP costs give the number of HP you need to kill to raise one undead of the specified type. This leaves some calculation to the player, as the creatures to kill have each their own HP amount:
--> Nb_Raised = floor( Nb_Killed * Target_HP / HP_Cost )
with Target_HP being referenced somewhere else. Wwhile the part that has been precalculated is
--> HP_Cost = Undead_HP / Necromancy
The total formula is
--> Nb_Raised = floor( Necromancy * Nb_Killed * Target_HP / Undead_HP )
Now, I assume that the relevant information is to have an idea of how much undeads you will raise when killing various types of creatures. For example with ghosts:
how many ghosts will I raise by killing griffins/hydras/pixies...?
For example, with Necromancy=20%, for 10 creatures killed:
Griffins: 3.75
Hell Hounds: 1.875
Hydras: 10
Pixies: 0.625
Bear Riders: 3.125
That gives you the actual number for Basic Necromancy (20%). If you have Advanced Necromancy (30%), you multiply by 1.5. If you have Expert Necromancy, a Pillar of Bone and Pendant of the Necromancer artifact, your Necromancy is actually 60%, and you multiply by 3.
The number of creatures killed also has to be adjusted, but you usually only have a rough idea of how many creatures you're attacking:
a lot (20-50) of Pixies will raise 1.3-3 ghosts
a pack (10-20) of Bear Riders will raise 3-6 ghosts
(with Basic Necromancy)
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted February 02, 2007 10:50 AM |
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Quote:
Good work indeed!
However, as you say Alcibiades, this kind of chart is not for the mainstream player, and I have to make it simpler for the manual. With that in mind, I'll share my thoughts here:
About the manual (it's so great!!) will there be a "addon" this time or a new one with over 240 pages....???
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 02, 2007 10:54 AM |
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I basically agree with what you say, Sfidanza: The relevant information is "how many undead will I get from this particular stack". This information depends on so many variables (Necromancy level, # Creatures, Type of Creature, # Pillars, Artifacts, Grail). All this information is impossible to include in one table for all the creatures in a way that's easy to overview.
I like the approach of having the "HP required" listed, because that'll give you a (fairly) easy way to understand how many creatures you'll raise per killed creature. This, if HP needed is 80, you'll easily know that you'll need 2 creatures of a 30-40 HP target, wheras a 21-25 HP target will require 3 creatures, etc. It still takes a bit of calculation, but it's fairly easily done imo.
The idea of having the Necromancy level represented by the Icons is only good for eye-candy; the obviously best way to represent it would be to have columns for the percentages: 20 % - 30 % - 40 % - 50 % - 60 % - 70 % - 80 % - 90 % - 100 %. This reduces the number of relevant numbers in the "HP Required" column to 9 whereas there are presently 16 (4 x 4). Furthermore, the above approach would be more precise, because it wouldn't descriminate between the different paths that leads to the same Necromancy % - thus, 80 % can be either Ultimate + 3 Pillars, Expert + 4 Pillars, Expert + necklace + 3 Pillars, Advanced + Grail, Basic + Pillar + Grail, etc.
Anyway, looking forward to see the tables made for the Manual - and if you'd like to hear someone's oppinion on your approach, just say the word.
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted February 03, 2007 05:33 AM |
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Just out of curiosity, what happens to the raise skelly archer skill then? Is it useless or do guys that would've given normal skelly give skelly archer instead?
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Dungeonian
Adventuring Hero
Supreme matriarch
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posted February 03, 2007 09:10 AM |
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Quote:
Just out of curiosity, what happens to the raise skelly archer skill then? Is it useless or do guys that would've given normal skelly give skelly archer instead?
This ability is gone now . There is a Mark of Necromancer instead of it in racial skill abilities
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The Darkness is the right hand of the Light , the Light is the left hand of the Darkness .
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted February 03, 2007 02:55 PM |
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Oh? Did anything replace Mark of the Necromancer or is that spot in Dark Magic tree just blank?
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