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ain
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 29, 2011 11:13 PM |
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Quote:
It is also likely you are playing an custom map where they have not been enabled.
That might be the case, I got my maps from the ToH site I think.
Is it normal for those maps to have these spells disabled?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 29, 2011 11:17 PM |
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Pretty unlikely if you picked them from the main page of the official site - cannot guarantee about the map thread in the forum. Usually divine vengeance is banned though. What's the map?
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ain
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 29, 2011 11:26 PM |
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Quote:
Pretty unlikely if you picked them from the main page of the official site - cannot guarantee about the map thread in the forum. Usually divine vengeance is banned though. What's the map?
Well I'm playing different maps, but recently it's been Dragon's Cape mostly.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 29, 2011 11:40 PM |
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Heheh used to play that one a lot. Warmachines really pay off there, that map has brutal creeping if you want to play fast. Academy, necro, orcs used to be my common faction choices, dungeon was banned for having things too easy.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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ain
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 30, 2011 01:00 AM |
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Quote:
Heheh used to play that one a lot. Warmachines really pay off there, that map has brutal creeping if you want to play fast. Academy, necro, orcs used to be my common faction choices, dungeon was banned for having things too easy.
Yeah getting that Utopia really pays off 
Can you confirm whether the spells are enabled or disabled on the map?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 30, 2011 01:38 AM |
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Hey you are the one that plays it, just open the map in the editor and check the spell section  I have not played it in ages.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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ain
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 30, 2011 09:57 AM |
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Edited by ain at 10:05, 30 Mar 2011.
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Quote:
Hey you are the one that plays it, just open the map in the editor and check the spell section I have not played it in ages.
I looked into it and on the ToH page it says the map would be HoF ready, which obviously means the spells aren't included.
Is there any way I can enable them manually?
I tried adding spells to the list but it couldn't figure out how.
edit: Nevermind, I think I figured it out. Thanks for your help again.
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Muttley
Adventuring Hero
the eternal survivor
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posted March 30, 2011 11:14 AM |
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Edited by Muttley at 11:27, 30 Mar 2011.
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Hi!
Is there any exact information about how initiative and ATB value works?
I mean I would like to see the formulas how initiative increases the ATB value. I've tried to search HC, but couldn't find it.
(I didn't look at the manual, but I doubt this kind of information can be found in it.)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 30, 2011 11:22 AM |
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Check the masterpost, it was a popular question. And you should check the manual, it has a wealth of information on pretty much everything.
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Muttley
Adventuring Hero
the eternal survivor
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posted March 30, 2011 11:31 AM |
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Quote:
Check the masterpost, it was a popular question. And you should check the manual, it has a wealth of information on pretty much everything.
Thanks, but the masterpost doesn't include formulas I am looking for.
Manuals do not used to have formulas too, but I will check it, if noone can give me a hint here.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 30, 2011 12:24 PM |
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Think of it on a 100% scale. A unit with 20 initiative will have his atb fill twice as fast as a unit with 10, by the time the 10 init gets to 50% of the atb bar the 20 init unit will have filled the bar and be able to act.
Two examples to make you understand it better.
A spell like slow will reduce initiative by 40% which also means that the slowed unit's atb bar will fill 40% slower.
An ability like divine guidance however will add 33% to a unit's atb which means it will act instantly if it has reached 67% of its atb bar or less but its initiative will be unaffected.
In maths you'd think of it as y = ax + b where y is atb position, x the current initiative and b an outside factor such as morale or a spell effect.
____________
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Muttley
Adventuring Hero
the eternal survivor
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posted March 30, 2011 01:39 PM |
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Edited by Muttley at 13:44, 30 Mar 2011.
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This is nice, but it is just a relative view point.
For example Wasp Swarm reduces the ATB value, and I can't compare it with the initiative reducing effects.
Wasp Swarm with expert Summoning Magic will reduce ATB value by 0.6. If I use Wasp Swarm two times (Spell, Creature ability, imbue arrows, imbue ballista, etc.), the ATB of the target stack will be reduced to zero. (Maybe below zero?)
I would like to know how initiative effects ATB exactly. For example initiative = x, then ATB increases x*(some kind of constant value) for every case a stack acts during battle(=the ATB bar rolls one square left [I thinks this is the base the initiative uses.]).
I understand the 100% scale, but the 100% scale is only applicable for one stack at once. I cannot use it to compare two stacks if I can't calculate how initiative effects ATB value.
I am thinking about using wasp swarm with imbue arrow, rain of arrows, imbue ballista and Sprites to paralize almost the whole army of my opponent.
But I need to know how initiative (thus ATB value regeneration) works. In exact numbers not only on 100% scale so I can determine whether this strategy can be effective or not.
Or how I should chose my favorite enemies. (I mean it is a possibility that creatures with great initiative can't be paralized if initiative allows it to regenerate ATB value very fast.)
(And I don't want to scroll the ATB bar during the whole time of the battle.)
So I just need the exact formula if it exists somewhere.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 30, 2011 02:32 PM |
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Wasp swarm multiplies current atb by 60%, if the unit is almost about to act - let's say 99.9% - it will drop to roughly 40%. If you cast it while atb is at 40% it will drop to 24%.
And if you want to calculate initiative with multiple stacks you can only do this in a relative way, you can not tell EXACTLY what spot a unit will land in if it waits, gets hasted or morale triggers. There is no way to tell exactly what the current atb is, when you see one unit right next to another in the atb bar you cannot tell exactly how far away they are from each other in terms of atb. Could be 5%, could be 25%.
Besides the easiest way to calculate all that is just compare initiative ratio between units and check the atb bar throughout the battle. Rule of the thumb is that haste/slow just before a unit acts will not affect atb too much simply because the atb is almost filled and only the rate of filling will change. But if a unit is far from acting the effect will be major. Call it a momentum thing.
For instance, a unit at 50% atb that has expert haste cast on it will fill the remaining 50% at a 40% faster rate(60% of the time it took to fill the initial 50% prior to the haste).
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Muttley
Adventuring Hero
the eternal survivor
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posted March 30, 2011 03:22 PM |
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Thanks, that is an answer to my question.
So the method is not known how the game determines the rounds of the stacks.
And I was a little mistaken because of the description of Wasp Swarm from heroesofmightandmagic.com:
"At Basic, Advanced and Expert mastery, target's ATB value is reduced by 0.2, 0.4 and 0.6 respectively."
The values here are not per cent values so I thought this is an extraction.
Thanks again.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 01, 2011 04:20 AM |
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Edited by Fauch at 04:26, 01 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
Wasp swarm multiplies current atb by 60%, if the unit is almost about to act - let's say 99.9% - it will drop to roughly 40%. If you cast it while atb is at 40% it will drop to 24%.
isn't it the formula for master of lightnings?
from what I understand, wasp swarm decreases initiative by 20/40/60%
it's the opposite of divine guidance. if an unit has filled 90% of the atb bar and you cast expert wasp swarm, it will drop to 30%.
wasp swarm is already a decent spell, given that you can cast it at expert level, so in combination with wasp swarm it's quite nasty. but if you want to really paralyze the enemy, blind prevents the atb bar from filling up. or at least I think so...
there's also master of cold which paralyze the unit for 0.3 turn.
during that time, an unit with init 10 will fill 30% of the bar, but an unit with init 20 will fill 60%
if you cast wasp swarm at expert level, an unit with init 10 will lose 0.6 turn, an unit with init 20, only 0.3 turn.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted April 04, 2011 11:05 AM |
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When you get into a battle in Heroes V, there are two variables that determine when you act on the ATB Bar (Active Time Battle):
- Initiative
- Starting ATB value
Now, if there was no variable for Starting ATB value, a creature with Initiative of 16 (Hellcharger) will go twice as often as a creature with Initiative of 8 (Pit Lord) ie. this is completely linear and this will happen all the time.
But there is some randomness that comes into the picture with the Starting ATB value. All creatures (incl Hero) get a random value allocated to their Starting ATB value at the beginning of the battle between 0 and 0.25. Then at incremental levels of initiative the creature/hero will go when the ATB value equals (reaches) 1.
A creature with Initiative of 16, assuming best case scenario (0.25), will take 4.7 "turns" to act (0.25 + 0.16 x 4.7 = 1).
A creature with Initiauve of 8, assuming best case scenario (0.25), will take 9.4 "turns" to act (0.25 + 0.08 x 9.4 = 1).
Here we see 9.4 is exactly double 4.7 based on the double initiative of 16 to 8 and both creatures having same Starting ATB value.
Now let's assume this happens:
A creature with Initiative of 16, assuming worst case scenario (0), will take 6.3 "turns" to act (0 + 0.16 x 6.3 = 1).
A creature with Initiauve of 8, assuming best case scenario (0.25), will take 9.4 "turns" to act (0.25 + 0.08 x 9.4 = 1).
Here we see that 9.4 is only 1.5 times more than 6.3 and not double, assuming the one gets best case ATB value and the other worst case ATB value.
After the ATB value reaches 1, the creature/hero will act, and then after that, their ATB value is reset to 0 (ie. the random value between 0 and 0.25 doesn't apply anymore). So a creature with double initiative might only have 1.5 times as much turns to act over the other creature with half initiative.
It's true that a creature's Initiative does not take the Starting ATB value into consideration when stating the initiative number, but that's irrelevant because ATB and Initiative is not the same. The confusing thing is that we want to make the two things directly comparable - a creature with Initiative 11 goes before Initiative 10 etc. - but when we think about it, we know that's not necessarily true. In that sense, it seems to us that a creature with Initiative 10 may in fact have an "effective Initiative" of 12 in the first round if it's lucky with the ATB roll - however, that doesn't really change its initiative, it's just that Initiative doesn't tell when you act but how often - and keep in mind that a Hero WITH Swift Mind still has an Initiative of 10 - he'll just have his first turn sooner.
Swift Mind:
Now what happens with Swift Mind is that the Starting ATB value gets chosen from a higher bracket of 0.25 to 0.5.
Therefore, a hero Initiative is always 10 so:
Assuming best case scenario WITH swift mind (0.5), he will take 5 "turns" to act (0.5 + 0.10 x 5 = 1).
Assuming worst case scenario WITH swift mind (0.25), he will take 7.5 "turns" to act (0.25 + 0.10 x 7.5 = 1).
Assuming best case scenario WITHOUT swift mind (0.25), he will take 7.5 "turns" to act (0.25 + 0.10 x 7.5 = 1).
Assuming worst case scenario WITHOUT swift mind (0), he will take 10 "turns" to act (0 + 0.10 x 10 = 1).
So a hero with swift mind getting best case scenario, will act almost like a creature with Initiative of 16 (who takes 4.7 turns to act). Therefore one can clearly see the range of values that apply here. And a hero without swift mind, getting worst case scenario, will act almost like a creature with Initiative of 7.
Basically:
- A Hero WITHOUT Swift Mind acts between creatures of Initiative 7 and 14 and will act on average at the same time as a creature of Initiative 10.
- A Hero WITH Swift Mind acts between creatures of Initiative 10 and 20 and will act on average at the same time as a creature of Initiative 14.
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avian304
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 05, 2011 07:03 AM |
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Hi! I'm new here, so if this is being posted in the wrong place let me know and I'll post it somewhere else.
Onto the question. Me and my friend have been playing TOTE for a while now, but we went to team up vs a computer. So my question is, where are the official maps located so I can edit it so we can play team games?
Thanks for your time.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted May 05, 2011 07:06 AM |
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If you're asking for a map mod, you should go to the H5 Mod Squad. Otherwise, you came to the right place.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Humblepie73
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 19, 2011 10:24 PM |
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Quote:
After the ATB value reaches 1, the creature/hero will act, and then after that, their ATB value is reset to 0 (ie. the random value between 0 and 0.25 doesn't apply anymore).
Hi, i was about to post a question about how the ATB bar works exactly because i remember having read pretty much the same rules when i used to play the game when it was newer (i started playing it again 2 days ago) and i just had something strange happen:
- My hero (Sinitar with expert sorcery) attacks a stack of Djinn Sultans (init 12)
- Djinn Sultans move towards my troops (only 1 stack of stalkers) without getting morale
- Djinn Sultans act a second time before my hero with expert sorcery acts
Now as i understand it a hero with expert sorcery acts when his ATB bar value reaches 0.7 instead of 1, so, assuming ATB bar value always gets reset to zero, if he acts before an init 12 creature once he should always act before it afterwards (because 1/1.2 > 0.7/1), but he didn't.
The only explaination that comes to my mind is that there's randomness in where a creature (maybe hero, too) gets placed on the bar after a reset.
Quote:
Basically:
- A Hero WITHOUT Swift Mind acts between creatures of Initiative 7 and 14 and will act on average at the same time as a creature of Initiative 10.
- A Hero WITH Swift Mind acts between creatures of Initiative 10 and 20 and will act on average at the same time as a creature of Initiative 14.
That would be right if the hero has no sorcery, else he could run the ATB bar from [0.25, 0.5] to 0.7 on the first turn with swift mind.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 19, 2011 11:45 PM |
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Did the djinns get morale? Either way starting atb can change everything, if they started with high atb value and the hero with low it's not as strange as you'd think. They'd have a headstart.
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