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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted November 18, 2007 12:17 PM |
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How could about eighteen years not be enough time to recover an undead army...?
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted November 18, 2007 12:21 PM |
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Quote:
One detail in DM was wierd to me when I saw that Arantir had more Black Guards (Humans) than undead troops. I think it is so because he`s lost the mojority of his undead troops when he captured Flamshrien and he had not time to recover the udead army, because he was afraid that Sareth may uleash the demons, so he hired many Black Guards as mercenaris.
Doesn't make a lot of sense considering the the amount of time passed between TotE and DM, and this text even mentions a portal between Heresh and Stonehelm, not to mention a Necropolis below Stonehelm. But I guess after the failed Siege, he wanted to take a more subtle approach instead of letting everyone know there are undeads around. Or he needed his "Dark Energy" and the Portal for the Ritual.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Darkavatar
Adventuring Hero
Overlord Divine
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posted November 18, 2007 04:52 PM |
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Yes, you maybe are right.
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What is it exactly we have created. It is "New World Order".
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted November 18, 2007 05:06 PM |
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Wait, what failed seige?
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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guarder
Supreme Hero
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posted November 18, 2007 06:31 PM |
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just wondering: was the orc prelude campaign set to 500 years before heroes 5? And is Arantir killed in DM? he is actualy the "good" guy there, isn't he?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 18, 2007 06:51 PM |
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No it's after HoF and Arantir got killed. Depends on how you define good.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted November 18, 2007 06:56 PM |
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Which is what makes the plots of the game so good!
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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guarder
Supreme Hero
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posted November 18, 2007 08:01 PM |
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Thanks Elvin. Wheni said Good, ment that he fight the demons. And before TotE realease it was said the prelude was 500 years before normal heroes 5. And then Tieru's quest to Raelag was just stupid. go to visit something that are another place.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted November 18, 2007 08:20 PM |
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There was such a prelude mission, but it was cut out of the game's final release and replaced with Quroq's one. The mission is still in the game's data files.
The fact that Arantir fights demons doesn't make him good exactly. He also happens to kill over a million people in trying to do so.
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Darkavatar
Adventuring Hero
Overlord Divine
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posted November 18, 2007 08:28 PM |
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Quote:
The fact that Arantir fights demons doesn't make him good exactly. He also happens to kill over a million people in trying to do so.
He thinks atleast that he is good and Ashas chosen one. He`s view on order is necromancy, and that makes he think that sacrificing 1 milljon people is good.
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What is it exactly we have created. It is "New World Order".
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted November 18, 2007 08:30 PM |
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Edited by Nirual at 20:37, 18 Nov 2007.
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Quote:
Wait, what failed seige?
2nd mission or so. Not really much of a real siege, just an undead cyclops attacking along with like 2 ghouls and getting a ballista bolt in it's eye by Sareth at the end of the mission.
As for Arantir, as I said before, his intend to sacrifice all those people is a nessesary evil in his eyes since he failed to get the skull of shadows and had every reason to assume Sareth would use it to free the Sovereign. He is as "good" as a necromancer can be, but as he believes in the spider aspect of Asha ("Asha uses all"), he doesn't hesitate to use all means possible to reach his goal. Sacrificing one million people is a favorable outcome over the potential doom of all of Ashan.
In a stretch, you could compare it to the nukes the americans dropped over Japan in WWII: they caused horrible casualites, but it did avoid a long war between Japan and the US with potenially more causalities and costs.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 18, 2007 08:33 PM |
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Let me tell you something, if there was no other solution I might have done the same. I would not have felt good about it but the alternative is the demons coming in this world and killing more than you ever could with the ritual.
@Cepheus
Still one of the single maps with the orcs shows when Kunyak regained their freedom. Maybe that's the one you were referring to?
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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guarder
Supreme Hero
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posted November 18, 2007 08:36 PM |
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I'm agree with you Elvin. Rather sacrifice one million people than all get killed by demons. But if they gained freedom for 500 years ago(orcs) why did Quroc realeased them from the humans
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 18, 2007 08:40 PM |
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They probably got crushed in the meantime. But I'm positive that cepheus would know better  I did not finish the scenario, after I took over one of the academies I got bored. It's annoying having to wait till you get a good army to take down a castle but it's mostly that I forgot in the meantime. Maybe I still have the save.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted November 18, 2007 08:41 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 20:45, 18 Nov 2007.
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Quote:
He thinks atleast that he is good and Ashas chosen one. He`s view on order is necromancy, and that makes he think that sacrificing 1 milljon people is good.
But it's not good, is it? Just like Gavin Magnus wants to enslave the free will of everyone on Axeoth during Heroes IV because he thinks that will bring about order - that doesn't make him good. It makes him a crazy git who deserves to be overthrown.
Quote:
Let me tell you something, if there was no other solution I might have done the same. I would not have felt good about it but the alternative is the demons coming in this world and killing more than you ever could with the ritual.
Still doesn't make him good. There probably was another solution. And it's not like the demons entering Ashan couldn't be controlled, now is it? What is so essential about stopping the Sovereign from returning anyway? Zehir and friends already beat him once on home ground - surely after twenty years he can't be all that much more powerful.
Quote:
Still one of the single maps with the orcs shows when Kunyak regained their freedom. Maybe that's the one you were referring to?
No, I mean a deleted map featuring Narxes creating the first Orcs. It's in the data files, but can't be played unless you're good with the Editor.
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if they gained freedom for 500 years ago(orcs) why did Quroc realeased them from the humans
The Wizards created Orcs as slaves, then Quroq finally released them five centuries later and they went berserk on the Raven dynasty.
Quote:
They probably got crushed in the meantime. But I'm positive that cepheus would know better
Uh, thanks.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 18, 2007 08:52 PM |
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Actually by the time of dark messiah we have no idea what has transpired so I can't tell. But the prophecy about the dark messiah powerful enough to walk both planes and wielding the magic of Urgash cannot have been that fun. As for Arantir I doubt he would have cared much to look for another alternative.
Quote:
No, I mean a deleted map featuring Narxes creating the first Orcs. It's in the data files, but can't be played unless you're good with the Editor.
Can you check if you can find an text or unlocking any cutscenes with a command?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted November 18, 2007 08:58 PM |
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Quote:
As for Arantir I doubt he would have cared much to look for another alternative.
Precisely my point. 
Quote:
Can you check if you can find an text or unlocking any cutscenes with a command?
That wasn't to say I'm good with the editor - sure I can find texts from scenario cutscenes in the data files though, no problem. I don't use the cheating console at all but there are no cutscenes in the pre-prologue map anyway, it wasn't finished properly.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted November 18, 2007 10:36 PM |
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I think Radar has played the map, so contact him... Someone (try to look at the ingame screenshot topic...) did it...
And I see Arantir as good, But just fighting on the good side. since that is what will gain him victory..
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 18, 2007 10:50 PM |
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No need, I took the time to finish it. Seems the orcs left for the islands because they knew that while the wizards would not care, the knights would continue to pursue them.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted November 18, 2007 11:25 PM |
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Quote:
As for Arantir I doubt he would have cared much to look for another alternative.
Prejudging much? He tried to get the skull, but Sareth got the better of him. What else was he supposed to do, knowing that he won't have much time until Sareth would use the skull, probably for the worse?
I doubt his understanding of Asha would've allowed him to twirl his thumbs and hope Sareth would use the Skull for the right thing.
Besides, we know he used to be a bookworm and knows many things, so I doubt he just thought "hey, lets condemn a whole city because I'm too lazy for anything more subtle".
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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