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| Thread: Have you ever tried martial arts? Facts and myths about MAs. |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... 20 30 35 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Doomforge
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posted August 09, 2008 07:06 PM |
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I'm pretty much sure about it. After round two, he was pretty passive, focused on avoiding low kicks, because another direct hit in the knee could result in a indirect KO  I think that's why he become more active later on, when the pain subsided a bit.
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Doomforge
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posted August 11, 2008 11:44 AM |
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Small update. A video showing why roundhouse kicks suck. See for yourself how predictable and easy to avoid they are.
here
Capoeira vs. whatever. Capoeira is more of a dance/acrobatics, not a MA, but still.
It ends in a very funny way too - looks like the guy fainted  it drained him of all his energy
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted August 14, 2008 07:59 AM |
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Doomforge
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posted August 30, 2008 10:11 PM |
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hey sup guys, tired of discussing MAs already?
How about my nice attempt of reviving the thread.. >.>
I'd like to introduce another fact:
Grappling beats striking
Which is pretty much why the traditional martial arts suck. A grappler is a person that fights without punches or kicks; he uses various techniques to control the opponent in the clinch, taking the fight to the ground if he wishes, aiming at ending the fight with a throw, choke, armbar and similar techniques, depending on the grappling style he uses.
Styles like BJJ or Sambo are a great display of grappling superiority. Can you box on the ground? Can you kick on the ground? No, you can't. And taking a guy down is easy for a person that has trained it. Many inexperienced guys ask "but what if he smashes your face with his knee while you are "diving"".. Well, it can happen, but it's very unlikely. A good grappler will try to apply the takedown under a certain angle (not standing in front of the opp) to make it harder to knee him. The takedown itself - called "shoot" - is, like the name suggests, extremely rapid, hard to predict and near-impossible to avoid.
If you are a pure grappler and your opp is a pure striker, you will win like 8 of 10 matches, unless he's much stronger and heavier than you.
There are counters to takedown (called sprawl), but you won't learn them without training Wrestling or MMA, and they are just a counter to classical shoot. You have many other ways of taking the fight to the ground.
A few vids for you:
See the excellent shoot against Muay thai legend at 1:57!
wrestlers shooting
A nice knockdown with Gracie family explaining stuff
Few extra ways for knockdown
Your usual pure striker vs. pure grappler, must see!
How to sprawl
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JoonasTo
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posted August 30, 2008 10:28 PM |
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You got the fact wrong way around.
Not much to say about that. But do you know why the traditional MAs emphasis on striking? It's because they were mostly military evolved. Grappling isn't much of a use in a fight where there are more than a few persons. Because if one of the grapplers doesn't succeed that side's doomed. Of course if sides are not equal there's not much use for grappling as the smaller side then.
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Doomforge
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posted August 30, 2008 10:34 PM |
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JoonasTo: corrected, thx Well the "military" origins of MAs are dead for hundreds of years so I don't think it really counts today.
Oh and I forgot to add that MMA beats pure grappling.
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Asheera
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posted August 30, 2008 10:37 PM |
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But when there's a fight with swords there's not much grappling you can do, is it?
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Doomforge
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posted August 30, 2008 10:39 PM |
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exactly, that's why the military aspects of MAs were a failure from the very beginning.
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wog_edn
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posted August 30, 2008 10:54 PM |
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Not necessarily, since martial arts also includes sword fighting, bow and arrow, etc... modern MA even includes how to use a gun as more than a shooting-equipment and how to disarm a person using it. When you get to war nowadays there's not too much use for MA, but in earlier days when people were close to each other fencing and stuff it were always neat having a few tricks to surprise your opponent with.
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TheDeath
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posted August 31, 2008 12:55 PM |
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Well normal punches are bad, Aikido is mostly based on grappling and throwing, and it's very effective when you are attacked from many sides (compared to others of course).
I know you don't believe in ki and stuff, but some MAs don't even use a straight punch, rather something like focusing their ki or something (like how they break concrete bricks with their hands, you know ) -- don't take my word for it though, as I have never done it
Here's something from Seagal, well at least he knows better than me, that's for sure:Quote:
Q: Do you ever use Ki-ai in your techniques? I don't think I've ever heard it from you.
Sensei: You won't want to. Ki-ai is very effective and when you do it right you'll paralyze your opponent.
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Doomforge
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posted August 31, 2008 01:31 PM |
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Seagal is as reliable saying that stuff as he would be if he said that he can levitate with the power of his brain. 
As for Aikido, I don't understand what you mean by "many sides".. I hope you don't mean fighting multiple opponents
As for breaking hard objects, anyone can do it. Seriously! You don't need any ki or anything.
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TheDeath
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posted August 31, 2008 01:34 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 13:38, 31 Aug 2008.
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Quote:
Seagal is as reliable saying that stuff as he would be if he said that he can levitate with the power of his brain.
Now you have some prejudice it seems. First of all, he didn't say anything about levitation. Comparing them is prejudice because you think both are "silly". Of course he wouldn't say he levitates, why would he, he never did it. If he were to do it, maybe he might have said it
Quote:
As for Aikido, I don't understand what you mean by "many sides".. I hope you don't mean fighting multiple opponents
Yes, multiple opponents. I saw some vids once (albeit they are not martial artists themselves!). I will try to find it on YouTube but I don't know if it's available there. 
Here's one (bad quality and it's not as awesome as the other one but meh).
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Doomforge
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posted August 31, 2008 02:27 PM |
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even tough contact sports fail on that.
Aikido, being more of an art than fighting, can only make an adept pretty embarrassed (and badly beaten) if he tries to fight multiple opponents. The problem with Aikido is simple.
To do something in real fight, you have to practice it. If you practice with opponents who use slow, signaled moves, you will be prepared for slow, signaled moves only. A swift, strong punch will make you completely unprepared and defenseless.
And if you already don't know it.. Aikido adepts train with themselves. They don't invite boxers for their trainings. So all they can perform are slow and technically incorrect punches and kicks... now if you meet someone who knows how to do them correctly, and try to stop him with your Aikido.. you will fail. Trust me
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Adrius
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posted August 31, 2008 02:37 PM |
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Quote:
As for breaking hard objects, anyone can do it. Seriously! You don't need any ki or anything.
There is no proof (afaik) that there is something called Ki, but we can't completely ignore it either.
After all, a super-heavy-weight guy who breaks brick like matches might be focusing his Ki, he just doesn't know he's doing it!
Maybe we're all using Ki, we just have different names for it.
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TheDeath
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posted August 31, 2008 02:38 PM |
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Quote:
And if you already don't know it.. Aikido adepts train with themselves. They don't invite boxers for their trainings. So all they can perform are slow and technically incorrect punches and kicks... now if you meet someone who knows how to do them correctly, and try to stop him with your Aikido.. you will fail. Trust me
Of course you don't train with boxers, that would be overkill, like training with a master that fights to beat you up, rather than teach you. Seagal has experience, however, with multiple styles -- and even connections with Jet Li (studying different styles makes you more knowledgable and experienced).
Of course they first train with slow-moving opponents! There's nothing good in getting crushed. When you go to school, you start with 1+1=2, not with calculus!
By the way, of course when I said "multiple opponents" I was referring to guys that don't train in martial arts, or at least don't do it SERIOUSLY. If you have Seagal versus two copies of him, or versus two MA masters, do you think I would say he would win? 
I meant it's the more effective style against multiple opponents. Not invulnerable against them especially if they are in martial arts themselves 
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Doomforge
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posted August 31, 2008 03:44 PM |
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Aikido good vs. multiple opponents? Sorry, but no
If I wanted to point out a single style that can be good in that horrible situation, it would be boxing.. if they don't knock you off balance, you can pretty much own two or three guys with swift and powerful blows, and get out of there before they decide to knock you down and apply fatality aka using their boots while you're on the ground But you have to be very heavy (100+ kg or more - muscles, ofc. Not fat :grin) with a flawless technique to make sure you'll get the desired effect of OHKO every time you strike
oh and wait.. there is one style that totally owns others.. hah see it for yourself for a good laugh!!
MUST SEE
Why did my country had to contribute to the MA society in such a ridiculous way ? 
and.. don't miss the deadly karate tsunami adept!
click
Wtf was that?
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TheDeath
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posted August 31, 2008 03:56 PM |
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Aikido good vs. multiple opponents? Sorry, but no
Most stuff about it actually claim that tho (compares it to OTHER martial arts for THAT purpose)
Boxing good for multiple opponents? 
I know a boxer who could trashed by just gypsies. And no, they didn't have guns (actually they didn't kill him, just knocked him down unconscious and robbed him and his gf)
Quote:
If I wanted to point out a single style that can be good in that horrible situation, it would be boxing.. if they don't knock you off balance, you can pretty much own two or three guys with swift and powerful blows, and get out of there before they decide to knock you down and apply fatality aka using their boots while you're on the ground But you have to be very heavy (100+ kg or more - muscles, ofc. Not fat :grin) with a flawless technique to make sure you'll get the desired effect of OHKO every time you strike
You see, that's the problem with boxing. If your opponent is heavy and runs towards you, you're screwed. Because boxing is about applying force to stop his momentum. In aikido, you actually use HIS momentum against himself (heavy guys fall down easier with their own movement ). Aikido is also "effective" against multiple opponents (again: compared to OTHERS, i'm not saying you're invulnerable!) because it is quick. You get your first opponent that attacks you out of your "way" quickly. Even if it's not fatal for him, you still at least get him out of your way before the next guy can come in. Kinda like you know, getting out of a train's way
Quote:
oh and wait.. there is one style that totally owns others.. hah see it for yourself for a good laugh!!
MUST SEE
Why did my country had to contribute to the MA society in such a ridiculous way ?
Karate is not a very good MA but it can be good combined with other "styles" tho. I'm not sure what the vid is supposed to mean
Quote:
and.. don't miss the deadly karate tsunami adept!
click
Wtf was that?
What's with that vid?
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Doomforge
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posted August 31, 2008 04:11 PM |
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Quote:
Boxing good for multiple opponents?
I know a boxer who could trashed by just gypsies. And no, they didn't have guns (actually they didn't kill him, just knocked him down unconscious and robbed him and his gf)
No, boxing isn't good for multiple opponents, nothing is, though a gun can do if you don't mind killing. The situation you describe is what happens to a martial artist who attacked multiple opponents, even weaker. Strength in numbers!
I mentioned boxing because it's the fastest way to neturalize a person. A well-aimed strong punch takes a second to perform and gets rid of the opponent.. assuming he doesn't know how to guard, that is..
I know how aikido works but it's not faster than a straight punch. I dunno who planted that strange thought in your head, but I won't try to convince you it's not like that
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Karate is not a very good MA but it can be good combined with other "styles" tho. I'm not sure what the vid is supposed to mean
Come on. The "techniques" presented there are completely RIDICULOUS. And their poses.. their expressions.. rotfl.
Quote:
]What's with that vid?
It looks like that poor guy has some sort of epilepsy.. If that's fighting, you're better off watching a football match with a beer in hand.
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TheDeath
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posted August 31, 2008 04:39 PM |
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Quote:
No, boxing isn't good for multiple opponents, nothing is, though a gun can do if you don't mind killing. The situation you describe is what happens to a martial artist who attacked multiple opponents, even weaker. Strength in numbers!
They attacked him though (3 of them). It wasn't like he was completely defenseless (gypsies aren't weak either).
Depends on how weak the opponent is, but straight punches (not boxers!!!) are usually performed by those untrained that always get their ass kicked when performing a demonstration with the master (that is, if they get in a MA school or something). I know one guy that was 1.5 times as heavy as a "master" and got his ass kicked quickly (didn't even 'scratch' anything, if you know the expression).
Of course now, not all 'apples' are the same. It would be folly to assume every master has the same mastering of the art. It would also be folly to assume every "newcomer" is the same: some are better than others at fighting obviously.
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I know how aikido works but it's not faster than a straight punch. I dunno who planted that strange thought in your head, but I won't try to convince you it's not like that
I would point links to forums (the forums are not interesting themselves, but what links they post there ) and few articles, but I doubt you would have the time to read and would probably ignore it anyway. And I have some contacts with some people (no it's not about "fighting" mostly, i mean, as in picking street fights!). It's cool to hear them because they don't have prejudices like "OMG that's so retarded" and some things what they say make sense (well I DO, at least, meditate and focus even though I don't know any "styles").
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Come on. The "techniques" presented there are completely RIDICULOUS. And their poses.. their expressions.. rotfl.
oh, well if I am honest about it, I'll say that I don't know that much how it integrates with the whole thing. I mean, we can all just laugh in the eye of what we find funny, but some guys seemed serious enough. Maybe it's my SIRIOUSness that makes me take and analyze all things and not have many prejudices. I don't know. (even in the vid's comments you have some contradictory opinions ).
Quote:
It looks like that poor guy has some sort of epilepsy.. If that's fighting, you're better off watching a football match with a beer in hand.
Usually I'm not a guy who likes to make assumptions on things I mostly don't know about especially without arguments -- the guy might LOOK ridiculous (ridiculousness is in the eye of the beholder). The guy might not even be an "expert" (whatever that means). But I give him credit and express my honest opinion about that vid: I don't know.
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JoonasTo
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posted August 31, 2008 04:54 PM |
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What kind of guy do you have to be to come up with something like that? o_O Maybe the dude had somekind of personality disorder.
And that thing has nothing to do with Karate.
Well maybe the gi is same.
As for boxing it is great but you have to realise the difference between an amateur and a professional. Here's a guy here who is a good amateur, beats other amateurs with quite ease. Now one time he asked his friend, who is a semi-professional, for a real match. After a while of persuasion the guy agreed. Wanna know the result? I know you do but can you quess? Probably you can.
Yes, as soon as the bell had rang the amateur was taking count. One hit that he never saw coming knocked him cold. Not very long match. little over ten seconds. And this guy wasn't bad by no means. He's better than most amateurs and no greenie but the difference is just that huge.
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