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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted September 12, 2008 09:55 PM |
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I hate OSM because of the long postes, but I did read some of it  and would really like to say somethings:
I am a virgin and I must say: It bothers me and it doesn't bother me.
It bothers me because I am 17, and everybody else has done the thing and you know there comes a certain pressure on you.
It doesn't bother me because It will come in time and I want the right person  (I like the romantic thought about it)
I am very oldschool about this (except the marriage thing )
Sex is a two person thing and should be a romantic act between two people in love
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 12, 2008 09:56 PM |
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Quote:
But you don't know that when you fall in love with the person, do you? I mean when you start your relationship you don't know that it will end after one week do you? Just because a couple breaks up after one week (let's say two) it doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't love each other to begin with. There can always be something that came up or something they hadn't noticed about their partner before they started the relationship.
It doesn't work that way. Love (or soul-mate whatever) is not something to be taken that lightly. You see the main problems are like this:
- Hey I love you!
- Why?
- Dunno. Even though i don't know you, i just do.
After 2 weeks:
- Hey, you get drugs?
- Yeah and I like to!
- I'm done with you!
This wasn't even love to begin with! And most certainly, you either did it because you were irrational or took it too lightly, or because you wanted sex or because whatever other reason. Point is, it was no love, even though you thought so. Many children think they are right until later they realize -- as in our case (after 2 weeks). It simply doesn't mean they were right back then, they were never right. Just as here you were never "in love" but only had the illusion because you were too rushed in it.
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I think I get what you mean now... but you're being waaaaaay to moralish about such an simple issue... damn it this thread needs more Anti and Joonas .
What's the point of this thread again?
I could provide loads of articles, you could provide loads of articles as well. What's the point? I doubt people did not read those articles so we already know the arguments used on both sides 
@keksimaton: The reason you think I am "weird" is because you have no idea how people HAD been weird back then -- it's uncommon nowadays to find people like me, like I said, it's very rare to find lady-like girls these days.
As for the stealing metaphor, let me take then a cheating metaphor. Suppose you are in a game. You and your opponent start playing. Now he has an unfortunate call and doesn't look at the game's pieces (let's say chess) for 3 seconds. What are you going to do? Cheat to win? This would make you dishonorable. Even though "no one" catches you doing it, so your opponent never finds out, it's still dishonorable. People with values won't do it, even if "it's better" in the end (after all, it's better to win, right?). let's also say that there was money involved so you have a stronger reason to "cheat".
If you start to say that is naive to not cheat, then I'm done discussing -- it seems you have no respect to values like honor or anything and then my arguments hardly make any point at all.
Don't get me wrong -- honor is not necessarily tied with virginity. All I'm saying is that both are values, but different types of values.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted September 12, 2008 09:59 PM |
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Quote:
When people say they love each other and break up after a week, it's rather pathetic, don't you think?
Of course it is. But "love" isn't only your soulmate. In your entire life you'll fall in love with people. I've had a few girlfriends and I dindn't love anyone of them "more" or "less" than the others. I loved them as true as word "love" gets.
I think you guys are being to stiff about the word "love" (or I'm to liberal xD). Love is not just your "soulmate"/the one your going to marry. Until you can fall in love a number of times and it won't be any less real if you don't live together, marrie, have kids or whatever it is your conditions for "true" love are.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 12, 2008 10:02 PM |
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Quote:
Of course it is. But "love" isn't only your soulmate. In your entire life you'll fall in love with people.
No you don't. Older people fall a lot less in "love" than younger ones. Reason is that the younger ones just get too excited about it, get it rushed, like any kid gets into trouble. He is not in love in the first place, but his mind tells him so, irrationally of course (esp. if you break up very EARLY, like 2 weeks).
Break ups exist even in mature couples, but that's mostly because of other reasons, not because "it won't work out" but like financial or other more mature reasons.
And being married doesn't mean love either. 
There's a saying: "Sex is for animals. Love is for humans." -- of course love may include sex, however you first have to be in love to include it. And like I said above, this does not apply to many young couples that break apart quickly.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 12, 2008 10:03 PM |
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Quote:
Of course it is. But "love" isn't only your soulmate. In your entire life you'll fall in love with people. feel attracted to many people.
Fixed that for you.
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I've had a few girlfriends and I dindn't love anyone of them "more" or "less" than the others. I loved them as true as word "love" gets.
I think you guys are being to stiff about the word "love" (or I'm to liberal xD). Love is not just your "soulmate"/the one your going to marry. Until you can fall in love a number of times and it won't be any less real if you don't live together, marrie, have kids or whatever it is your conditions for "true" love are.
A love that lasts, idk, 1 month, two, one year.. and then dissolves.. should that feeling be called love? imo no.
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Vexon
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 12, 2008 10:04 PM |
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Sex comes by itself if you love someone. It doesn't have to be a reason. That's the problem. And another problem is that you truly need to love that someone. If you break up after 1 week saying that "this won't work out" it means you were irrational and, in fact, didn't love him/her. Why have sex then? In this respect, the only reason, subconsciously, that you actually "loved" him/her was because of sex. Period. And this is NOT ok.
Copy/paste;
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Love is a neural connection made between two parts of the brain that normally don't connect. As such it can be classified as A) a drug, or B) a disease. I say A, because, much like cocaine, it makes you unintelligible. In fact, why is pot banned while love is legal? Because pot's not a drug by legal definition but still an external stimulator, while love is an internal connection. So, therefore it is B, a disease. Interestingly, I find pot is a good medicine.
- Me.
Now, lust, which you're talking about, is pretty cool. In the length of that, no woman will ever have sex with a guy because she thinks ''I'm gonna get laid!'' Men will, women won't. The reason for that is men suck at sex. The reason for THAT is we only think about ourselves and how fast we can get off. Women might sleep with a guy they just met because it's a complex set of events and times that make it a right moment for her to do so, IE; to relieve stress and not having an option to do so at home because she's single, or whatever. Sex is a way to forget about things, even though women have more trouble with that than men, which is also the second reason why no guy can make a woman have an orgasm within the first three times they sleep with the woman in question in the case of vaginal penetration. Oral sex might just work, but most guys suck at that all the same. But I'm rambling.
So, having established that 'loving someone because of the sex' is an irrelevant theory because it has to go both ways, which it doesn't, we can focus on the real point of one night stands, which is, as I said, a stress reliever. It's a physical anesthetic for the part of your brain that makes you worry about whatever it is you're worried about. I can see how you made the claim that you did, Death, as you're a man, but the female aspect of a one night stand, for as far as my limited knowledge goes, is totally different. Women, even the ones that have sex because they love the person, know they are going to have sex with that person a looooong time before they fall in love with the guy. It's based on your presentation and whether what you present coincides with what that particular women wants to see presented (IE, reliability, attitude, how big your mouth is [which affects how big your penis is in their mind]). For some it turns into love and eventually maybe a life together, for the rest it's a basic unit of relaxation. After a period of stress, having sex with someone is the biggest metaphorical exhale in existence, and it doesn't matter who the other person is, as long as they provide sexual attraction.
That attraction also results in a different form of relieving stress; getting things out of your system. This is mostly in the form of arguments, because you're allowed to shout out whatever the hell is bothering you, thereby dropping a truckload off your chest. These two things combined is why make-up sex is the best sex in existence. The grounds for make-up sex, namely, are the basis that you love the person, of course, but it's triggered by the lust of the moment of spilling your beans on what the hell's driving you crazy, and backtalk is an enormous aphrodisiac because it challenges authority, which sex is sort of meant to decide.
...I don't know where the hell I was going with this, so I leave it at that.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted September 12, 2008 10:05 PM |
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Quote:
No you don't.
So you're saying that what I felt for all my girlfriends wasn't love. I simply had a big stiffy for them? I was excited. Conclusion I don't know what love is. That's what you're saying. Don't worry I'm not the least bit offended I just want to hear you confirme that by your logic I didn't truely love my girlfriends.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 12, 2008 10:08 PM |
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Quote:
So you're saying that what I felt for all my girlfriends wasn't love. I simply had a big stiffy for them? I was excited.
No it was like Doom said, attraction. Simple.
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Conclusion I don't know what love is. That's what you're saying. Don't worry I'm not the least bit offended I just want to hear you confirme that by your logic I didn't truely love my girlfriends.
You know what love is don't worry. What we don't realize, is in THAT moment. When we look at our past, we all look at our 'mistakes' (even though this WASN'T a mistake but not love).
Actually, when you fall in love with someone in a long term (without necessarily sex just so I hope I prove my point), then you will realize the difference between love and attraction. After all, there is a difference, and we label it as such.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted September 12, 2008 10:17 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 22:18, 12 Sep 2008.
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You know what? I'll stop discussing this issue with the both of you.
Telling me that I don't know what love is eventhough you have no clue about me... dude... I feel like a child. You two being the big mature grownups being all: "Ohhh dear yes yes that's right. Mhm... mhm...mhm... yes. That's all very cute what you're saying but you don't understand."
 ..... And what really bugs me is that you obviously are so convinced of your "pure" love that you won't even believe me when I say that I know what love is. You'll just be having that "Ohhh look at him isn't he cute being so ignorant" smile on your face.
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Actually, when you fall in love with someone in a long term (without necessarily sex just so I hope I prove my point), then you will realize the difference between love and attraction.
Oh and what makes you think I haven't? "Then I will realize...." . In what position are you to say that I do not know what love is (since you're saying that I haven't yet realized)? I've been in a very commited two year long relationship. Does that qualify me? Do I now know what love is?.
Sorry guys if that came across a bit angry but both of you telling me I don't really know what love is while acting like you know really tipped me off.... Please don't feel offended.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 12, 2008 10:21 PM |
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I don't think you quite understood what I said (and most certainly you took me the wrong way). Here I quote myself so you can see:
Quote:
You know what love is don't worry. What we don't realize, is in THAT moment.
Thus, when I said "only then you realize" is that you realize the DIFFERENCE, but you already KNOW what love is and what attraction is. For example, a person can know what it Stereo is, compared to Mono. But when he listens to them he actually REALIZES it -- even if he KNEW what it was.
Don't worry, we all know what marriage is as well (I'm not married either), but only when you do it you actually REALIZE it.
I hope you understand me this time
I thought you know I'm not the guy to call others immature by now 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 12, 2008 10:23 PM |
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I don't try to tell you I know better Az, perhaps Death does But not me.
But as for love. It's NOT a matter of taste. What you feel towards your mother, father and such.. that feeling.. this is love. It has nothing to do with the urge to have sex with someone. Did you feel it, or was it just teenage fascination? It's not implying I know better, but I'm pretty certain it was the latter. Love doesn't just go away after a week, see parents, you love them, even if you grow angry on them.
And the girl? You just say "asta la vista babe" and forget about her.
This is LOVE? Come on. Not to mention hormones that AMPLIFY the fascination.. most people confuse that feeling with love I think love is a deep bond between people, and thus can't happen between two random teenagers that met a month ago.
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted September 12, 2008 10:24 PM |
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I think its impossible to define the meaning of "love" in a way that all people will accept. A person's perception of love changes so many times over the years, as we learn more about life and about who we are.
Just because one person's definition of love does not match another's - it would never mean that what either of them feel isn't love.
____________
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 12, 2008 10:26 PM |
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ah, so you think the term love is subjective, Pan. I beg to differ
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 12, 2008 10:27 PM |
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Quote:
I think its impossible to define the meaning of "love" in a way that all people will accept. A person's perception of love changes so many times over the years, as we learn more about life and about who we are.
Just because one person's definition of love does not match another's - it would never mean that what either of them feel isn't love.
No one denies that what happens between a parent and children is not love -- therefore, that is love. Therefore, it can't have more definitions.
I fully agree with Doom here on the definition of it, just that I didn't know how to put it.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted September 12, 2008 10:31 PM |
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Oraaaaaaaa~~~~
too much brain work. I'll be getting back to you guys when I've slept . But I really disagree with you guys (in a very loveable and understanding way).
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted September 12, 2008 10:31 PM |
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I'm not talking about the love between family, I'm talking about love between a couple.
What I'm saying is that in different times in your life, love means different things to you - but just because you're feelings on the definition of it have changed, it does not mean that what you felt in that moment could not be called love.
I think there are too mny different ways to love someone to ever try and tell another person that what they feel isn't love though - because for them, in that moment - it is.
____________
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 12, 2008 10:34 PM |
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I think that love is one feeling, and the "changes" to it come from the addition of other feelings to it.
So, towards your, say, wife, you feel love+attraction (that slowly fades)+some other feeling perhaps
And towards your parents, you feel, let's say love+respect+gratitude.
But the love remains the same.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 12, 2008 10:37 PM |
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WHAT IS LOVE???
This thread really needed it.
Anyway, I agree with TheDeath.  I think that it's absolutely pathetic that so many kids are having sex these days, and then they break up with their partners. I mean, this is SERIOUS. I mean, I'm 17, and I haven't had sex (or even had a real girlfriend, for that matter). And yet I see all of this depravity (although I'm more or less used to it by now).
To answer the original question, it depends on the age. If she's 17, then yes, I would prefer she be a virgin. If she's older and it would be unreasonable to expect such a thing, then no.
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Eccentric Opinion
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted September 12, 2008 10:37 PM |
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Edited by pandora at 22:40, 12 Sep 2008.
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@ Doomforge : That's a nice way to put it
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted September 12, 2008 10:41 PM |
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If you truly love someone, their past won't matter. Hence why I never truly could love Marci.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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This thread is pages long: 
